Insulation Options for SpaceKap

[erstwild]

I finally picked up my 8' SpaceKap and have it installed on my new F-250 (final build thread will be posted once it is all completed).

Not an immediate concern but one thing I have been mulling over is the best insulation option for the SpaceKap. It might be a bit of a challenge to fit all the curved surfaces, between ribs, and to not waste space.

I think I would like about 1" thick max that has a metallic out layer that would be durable and not need paneling over it.

I would really like to use Thinsulate SM400L (1") on all the walls and ceiling, but I don't think they make it with an outer metallic layer.

The shop I went to today for some estimates on other work and he proposed potentially using the material they use for insulation for engine bay firewalls which looked interesting.

Anybody else have a take on this?

 

[ulyist]

I wonder the value in extra insulation in a spacekap. By this I mean fibreglass has some form of r value, let’s say 5. Better then an aluminum framed or pop up canvas camper anyway. Then what’s the smallest heater/ furnace you will buy? Will that keep the space warm at the coldest temperature you will probably encounter?
The other side of the issue would be trying to cool the spacekap in the summer or even condensation reduction with insulation in humid climates.
Have you thought about the spray foam insulation? Possible to embed all the electrical then spray the foam and cover with sheeting or your choice?

 

[sg1]

This stuff http://www.armacell.us/products/aparmaflexsaaparmaflexfssa/ has good insulation values and is flexible enough. It is often used in vans. Fibreglass without additional insulation has very little insulation value.

 

[erstwild]

This stuff http://www.armacell.us/products/aparmaflexsaaparmaflexfssa/ has good insulation values and is flexible enough. It is often used in vans. Fibreglass without additional insulation has very little insulation value.

Thanks sg1! Wow, that looks like the perfect material for me. I will have to price out the white, 1" thick, self-adhesive backing version.

I wonder the value in extra insulation in a spacekap. By this I mean fibreglass has some form of r value, let’s say 5. Better then an aluminum framed or pop up canvas camper anyway. Then what’s the smallest heater/ furnace you will buy? Will that keep the space warm at the coldest temperature you will probably encounter?
The other side of the issue would be trying to cool the spacekap in the summer or even condensation reduction with insulation in humid climates.
Have you thought about the spray foam insulation? Possible to embed all the electrical then spray the foam and cover with sheeting or your choice?

Good points. It is certainly better than aluminum or canvas, but I do not think it will be very good in cold + wet conditions without further insulation. On the heater front, I have been vacillating between just Mr. Buddy to start or doing a full Espar style heater.

 

[Danm7890]

Take a look at my SpaceKap build for what I used.

https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/truck-utility-spacekap-to-camper-conversion.199313/

 

[Jo_Duval]

Not sure I would even bother with extra insulation.

It’s such a debated topic, you have a small space, any heater you outback in will be more than sufficient to heat the space without added insulation.

Adding insulation just raises risks of humidity,condensation,rust,mold..

Unless you spray foam I wouldn’t bother. We have rock wool I think it’s called in our van we use a big buddy right now with a crack in a window and the maxxair at 20% no condensation on the walls... but add a dog or wet gear and we need to crank up the fan.

 

[erstwild]

Not sure I would even bother with extra insulation.

It’s such a debated topic, you have a small space, any heater you outback in will be more than sufficient to heat the space without added insulation.

Adding insulation just raises risks of humidity,condensation,rust,mold..

Unless you spray foam I wouldn’t bother. We have rock wool I think it’s called in our van we use a big buddy right now with a crack in a window and the maxxair at 20% no condensation on the walls... but add a dog or wet gear and we need to crank up the fan.

This is actually a good point. I live in a pretty temperate place (SF Bay Area) on the whole. Unless I can find a cost effective solution for something just like 1" closed cell foam with a nice white cladding outer layer (waiting for my quotes), then I think I will just prioritize some kind of nice espar/webasto/planar heater instead for the money.

 

[Jo_Duval]

Didn’t verify for autocorrect mistakes. But yeah I’d get a heater and not bother with extra insulation

 

[erstwild]

Just an update for those that are following along. This is the material I am looking at from Armacell: http://www.armacell.us/products/armatuffandarmatuffsa/
It is their armatuff product that includes a tough white outer cladding layer and self apply adhesive. They have a few local distributors in my area, so I will price it out and if it is comparable to thinsulate or a small premium I think I will entertain it as well as a proper heater. Good insulation and really easy to install too.

 

[Jonnyo]

I finally picked up my 8' SpaceKap and have it installed on my new F-250 (final build thread will be posted once it is all completed).

Not an immediate concern but one thing I have been mulling over is the best insulation option for the SpaceKap. It might be a bit of a challenge to fit all the curved surfaces, between ribs, and to not waste space.

I think I would like about 1" thick max that has a metallic out layer that would be durable and not need paneling over it.

I would really like to use Thinsulate SM400L (1") on all the walls and ceiling, but I don't think they make it with an outer metallic layer.

The shop I went to today for some estimates on other work and he proposed potentially using the material they use for insulation for engine bay firewalls which looked interesting.

Anybody else have a take on this?

for those asking, fiberglass as about no insulation value. it s not as bad as aluminum but a spacekap in hot sun summer is a terrbile oven. in the cold, it s like sleeping outside but protected from the win. If you use a heater inside, the wall get wet very quickly. So insulation is needed if you want to camp in cold and hot weather. You dont need a lot but some is needed.

i went the cheap way, i use EVA foam interlocking matts. i used the walmart kind: https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/mainstays-interlocking-foam-mat/6000196508780

at about 14$ each set (4'x4') or sometimes in special at 11$ X15 set of them that put me at just under 200$. I used Lepage polyurethane wood glue to attach them to the wall. They are paintable.

this provide a R2.5-3 and for that kind of camper.... it s very good. i use a Atwood 8012 (12 000btu) and it does a very good job in the winter. Also improve a lot the summer condition. It does require some work as there is some cutting a gluing involved but i prefer it over the other option. and it s a clean finish.

spray foam would have been another option but i was concern with the smell and it s a little complex to finish.

 

[erstwild]

Revisiting this. I have my rig setup now and thought I would try it out (uninsulated) with an dometic origo 5100 heatpal (~5000 BTUs) with proper ventilation and my Maxxair fan running on low for a week. Not quite powerful enough and a bit clammy/too much condensation on the walls for my taste. I am researching getting a Planar Portable 2D Diesel Heater (comes with fuel tank and lives in a Pelican style case): and thinking about mounting it externally (perhaps with something like locking E(02) brackets) on one of the rear doors with small holes for the controller, power cable, and heat vent drilled thorough. What do folks think?

 

[Jonnyo]

Revisiting this. I have my rig setup now and thought I would try it out (uninsulated) with an dometic origo 5100 heatpal (~5000 BTUs) with proper ventilation and my Maxxair fan running on low for a week. Not quite powerful enough and a bit clammy/too much condensation on the walls for my taste. I am researching getting a Planar Portable 2D Diesel Heater (comes with fuel tank and lives in a Pelican style case): and thinking about mounting it externally (perhaps with something like locking E(02) brackets) on one of the rear doors with small holes for the controller, power cable, and heat vent drilled thorough. What do folks think?

to try to heat up and uninsulated spacekap is a lost battle. you will have the heater running most of the time, noise, power drain, and cold walls. it s a matter of efficiency. Insulating isn't complicated and even a small layer will make a world of difference. My heater will run only half of the time or less during winter time. and the walls are not cold like the outside. make it so much nicer to not have cold draft and touching cold walls as you sleep.

But going with dry heat is a very good step in the right direction.

 

[erstwild]

to try to heat up and uninsulated spacekap is a lost battle. you will have the heater running most of the time, noise, power drain, and cold walls. it s a matter of efficiency. Insulating isn't complicated and even a small layer will make a world of difference. My heater will run only half of the time or less during winter time. and the walls are not cold like the outside. make it so much nicer to not have cold draft and touching cold walls as you sleep.

But going with dry heat is a very good step in the right direction.

Thanks for your thoughts Jonnyo. Living around SF Bay Area, we barely get lows around freezing during the winter. I think I will ultimately utilize the ArmaCell ArmaTuff product as the budget allows on the roof and walls at least (think I should do more/all interior surfaces?). Hopefully, the combination of the Planar Espar-style diesel heater and ArmaTuff insulation will do it for me.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/is...inter-Insulation-for-Liveaboards_12340-1.html
https://www.practical-sailor.com/is...inter-Insulation-for-Liveaboards_12340-1.html
http://www.oceannavigator.com/October-2010/Controlling-condensation-belowdecks/