insulation setup, who thought out of the box?

[Bbasso]

Hopefully soon I'll be rolling in another van, I've had three... ADD kicks in and then something else but I keep falling back to a E350 lol
Maybe if I set this next one up from the start I might actually keep it for a long while.

So one of the main concerns I've always had is keeping the inside cool / warm.
I've looked at many posts on here and other forums about how people have insulated their vans. And while everyone's idea works how about creating a better idea?

I was thinking closed cell spray foam insulation.
It can be applied thick or thin with a very good amount of R value plus sound deadening qualities. Then can be shaved / shaped to interior needs. And then putting up interior paneling as desired.

So is my idea good, bad or crazy?
Any possible negative side effects of spraying foam directly on to the inside metal?

 

[Toolman]

Reflectix works wonders. Not sure about spray on. I know you have to keep the weep holes clear so that the condensation will drip out. I think that's why most don't use the spray.


my experience
I slept on the ground in 20º. All I had was a layer of reflectix on the ground and a 15º bag, I was warm all night and the ground was warm under me when I woke up. Very noticeable difference from ground temp. Even the others that slept in there Rubicondo's were complaining about how cold it was. I was surprised how well it worked.

 

[boardrider247]

I posed the question of spray foam on another forum and received only negative firsthand responses.
I couldn't find anyone who had successfully done it.

Some things that were brought up
-it will separate from the van as the walls flex and end up squeaking
-it expands enough to make the body of the van wavy
-toxic off gassing (this could obviously be avoided with the correct foam)

Now these are not my concerns but those posed by others who had either tried it or knew someone who had.
It was enough to make me look elsewhere for insulation on my project.

YMMV

Ps I would love to see it done successfully as I believe it to have great potential.

 

[southpier]

I'd be concerned about the gas off in the event of a fire.

 

[bdog1]

Clearly if you need to go back "in" after that it would be a mess! R factor must be excellent since it what coolers are made of. I debated filling it inside bags (like you see in packing) but went Refletix, easy to mold around angles, also used some styrofoam.

There's wiring in the body, cables, latches and hinges in doors... Ect. All bad spots to foam in.


Sent by wing, prayer & ATT

 

[Bbasso]

As for wiring, running wires for later use would have to be thought out well ahead. Boxing off hinged other factory items shouldn't be too hard.
From other sources of info it seems like there wouldn't be any condensation between the foam and metal of the van so no worries about the drip holes being blocked. But I'm far from the knowledgeable one on this stuff.
I didn't even think of it not sticking... I wonder if that is a real possibility?
Expansion could be an issue but with a little care and some knowledge I bet the damage to the exterior could be kept to a minimum or none at all.
If there was a fire, I'm pretty sure the gas off would be the least of my concerns. Heck they insulate houses with this stuff and people return afterwards...

 

[Bbasso]

I'm very tempted to try this on my next van...

 

[Shocker]

There are different expansion rates for foam. You can get foam that expands just a small amount.

I always hear how the Reflectix is great, but every actual test shows it to be nearly worthless as insulation. When added to insulation as a reflective barrier there is some value, but you need the air gap to make it work.

 

[Haf-E]

Reflective insulation (like reflectix) is good for providing insulation in hot weather situations - but is not very effective for cold situations. It also requires an air gap between it and the outer surface in order to work as a radiant barrier - which could be more effectively filled with a higher R value insulation. Here is a very good study of it done in Alaska -

http://www.cchrc.org/docs/reports/TR_2011-01_Reflective_Insulation_in_Cold_Climates.pdf

The bottom line is that radiant losses in a well insulated structure in cold weather is pretty minor

That said - I have had good experience with using it as the inner most layer of insulation over foam board which was cut and glued into the recesses of my sprinter van. It works nicely as a thermal break between the metal frame and the inner paneling on the walls and ceiling. Also works well as a vapor barrier to limit condensation inside of cavities - but the seams of the reflectix needs to be taped well to seal it up. I think it also reduces the possibility for the foam insulation "squeaking" against the inner panel.

 

[southpier]

....Heck they insulate houses with this stuff and people return afterwards...

I agree. well, except for the ones that die in their sleep.

 

[boardrider247]

Reflective insulation (like reflectix) is good for providing insulation in hot weather situations - but is not very effective for cold situations. It also requires an air gap between it and the outer surface in order to work as a radiant barrier - which could be more effectively filled with a higher R value insulation. Here is a very good study of it done in Alaska -

http://www.cchrc.org/docs/reports/TR_2011-01_Reflective_Insulation_in_Cold_Climates.pdf

The bottom line is that radiant losses in a well insulated structure in cold weather is pretty minor

That said - I have had good experience with using it as the inner most layer of insulation over foam board which was cut and glued into the recesses of my sprinter van. It works nicely as a thermal break between the metal frame and the inner paneling on the walls and ceiling. Also works well as a vapor barrier to limit condensation inside of cavities - but the seams of the reflectix needs to be taped well to seal it up. I think it also reduces the possibility for the foam insulation "squeaking" against the inner panel.

That was a interesting read, thanks!

I installed foil faced bubble wrap (like reflectix) in my during the summer. It was around 90f and sunny. I can tell you with no uncertainty that the interior temperature of the van dropped significantly after installation.
That being said I have little hope of it doing much to insulate against the cold. What reflectix does do that is not accounted for in the above study is provide its own air gap. Albeit a small one.

I think reflectix is good as part of a insulation system. But as a standalone insulation it is only going to be helpful in hot sunny conditions.

For what it is worth this is how I am going to insulate my van.
-layer of reflectix against outside walls
-layer of 1.5" fiberglass "duct wrap" http://www.certainteed.com/products/insulation/mechanical-industrial/317380
-layer of reflectix with tapes seems to act as a vapor barrier

I would skip the second layer of reflectix since the duct wrap has a vapor barrier. But I have almost 200 linear feet left so I will use as much as I can.

 

[southpier]

good website link. is this the time to have vapor barrier discussion?

this proprietary product is designed to retard fire spread: http://www.certainteed.com/products/insulation/spray-foam-insulation/341114

 

[Arctic Travelller]

Reflective insulation (like reflectix) is good for providing insulation in hot weather situations - but is not very effective for cold situations. It also requires an air gap between it and the outer surface in order to work as a radiant barrier - which could be more effectively filled with a higher R value insulation. Here is a very good study of it done in Alaska -

The study was an interesting read, and agrees with the above, but the above does not address Reflectix use on uninsulated windows. Our experience is that it makes a noticeable difference in keeping heat in.

"Conversely,components of the building envelope with low overall insulative value, such as windows, can have a relatively high temperature difference between panes, and show a substantial benefit when a reflective surface (i.e., a “low ‐ e” coating) is included.Carmody et al. (2007) estimate that a low ‐ e coating in a multi ‐ pane window will reduce heat loss as much as adding another pane, which could be as much as a 50% reduction in thermal transmittance. This relative benefit is substantial when compared to the gains in thermal resistance reported by Estes et al. (1988) for partially insulated wall assemblies"

So, it seems like putting it in walls is not too effective, but fitting it to single pane windows (such as the windshield) has great benefits for both hot and to a lesser but still significant extent on cold.....................Arctic Traveller

 

[CodyY]

http://www.rhhfoamsystems.com/

Planning to use the versi-foam system in my new shop.

Just an option

 

[boardrider247]

good website link. is this the time to have vapor barrier discussion?

this proprietary product is designed to retard fire spread: http://www.certainteed.com/products/insulation/spray-foam-insulation/341114

Off topic but related to the intumescent spray coating.

Last winter I was working on a wind tunnel at a university. They sprayed the whole thing with foam then coated it with the intumescent spray. Of course this was before we had to work on top of the wind tunnel. After walking on this stuff for weeks it was falling apart and needed to be re sprayed.

When the vendor came to re spray I asked him what the cost was. $2/sq ft.
Not a deal breaker in terms of a van/camper but definitely not cheap.