Insulation (thermal and sound) Suggestions?

[s.e.charles]

What did you do about the firewall and doghouse? My noise “issue” is the engine. I quite enjoy it ...for awhile, and then the drone just kills you for 500 miles.

there are studies for industrial safety which document effects of exposure to certain noise (harmonics?) levels. one of the effects is sleep inducement*. woodworkers pushing the same piece of wood through a tablesaw or machinists using a drill press on piece work were used as examples in one of the articles I read.

"asleep at the wheel" is not a good thing to happen. I did it once on a 4 lane highway having a carbohydrate or sugar crash, and woke up with cars honking at me and going about 65 mph. quite an adrenaline rush!

*fatigue was the word I was seeking . . .

 

[Justgosurfin]

thinsulate or primaloft. lookup Hein on the sprinter forum.

Did you use thinsulate as well as the dynamat?

 

[s.e.charles]

I used "prima-loft" - and in retrospect, it was sheer impatience on my part. I could not kiss enough butt on the internet to get 3M to send me a sample, so I fixed them! - and bought the product I could access. one of many learnings from the project.

have PATIENCE - Sid!

PATIENCE.

anyway, because I had the depth available, 3 layers of 3 oz in the walls, and 2 layers of 4 oz in the ceiling. I also smooshed it - taking pains not to compress/ squeeze out the loft - in any other channel or cavity I could fit it.

anything I couldn't comfortably (either physically or philosophically) fill with it, got Armor-flex plumbing foam or just plain wetsuit neoprene (amazon - sheets x the square foot) pushed in.

I don't know the specific differences, but for the "street cred" (or creds - I dunno what these kids are saying ), I would use Thinsulate name brand next time around. if like a gazillion sprinters are using it, there must have been research done to say "it works you hippies!"

prima-loft is what Patagonia* uses for insulation in their puffy jackets that the hipsters wear to the wi-fi coffee joints, so hey, how bad can it be?

*don't bother checking the other thread: Patagonia or REI - who boycotts which the most?

 

[Justgosurfin]

I used "prima-loft" - and in retrospect, it was sheer impatience on my part. I could not kiss enough butt on the internet to get 3M to send me a sample, so I fixed them! - and bought the product I could access. one of many learnings from the project.

have PATIENCE - Sid!

PATIENCE.

anyway, because I had the depth available, 3 layers of 3 oz in the walls, and 2 layers of 4 oz in the ceiling. I also smooshed it - taking pains not to compress/ squeeze out the loft - in any other channel or cavity I could fit it.

anything I couldn't comfortably (either physically or philosophically) fill with it, got Armor-flex plumbing foam or just plain wetsuit neoprene (amazon - sheets x the square foot) pushed in.

I don't know the specific differences, but for the "street cred" (or creds - I dunno what these kids are saying ), I would use Thinsulate name brand next time around. if like a gazillion sprinters are using it, there must have been research done to say "it works you hippies!"

prima-loft is what Patagonia* uses for insulation in their puffy jackets that the hipsters wear to the wi-fi coffee joints, so hey, how bad can it be?

*don't bother checking the other thread: Patagonia or REI - who boycotts which the most?

Thanks for the break down! So do you feel the dynamat was a worthwhile venture too? How about any MLV? I think I’ll use it around the doghouse and bulkhead there some there now but more would help.

 

[s.e.charles]

y'know .. engineers are paid thousands of dollars a year to figure stuff out . . . but I know as a group (just like GVW _ !!!) we know better for cheaper, but at some point in life ya gotta pick your battles . . .

https://hushmat.com/applications/marine-rv.html


just like changing oil (synthetic or dyno?), it's more important frequency than brand.

 

[Justgosurfin]

y'know .. engineers are paid thousands of dollars a year to figure stuff out . . . but I know as a group (just like GVW _ !!!) we know better for cheaper, but at some point in life ya gotta pick your battles . . .

https://hushmat.com/applications/marine-rv.html


just like changing oil (synthetic or dyno?), it's more important frequency than brand.

So that’s a yes?

 

[s.e.charles]

affirmative!

 

[Justgosurfin]

Thinsulate as a decoupling barrier for MLV? I’ve been very pleased with the performance of Soundown’s products that have a layer of mlv sandwhiched between foam. I used it on my boats center console and have used/experienced it on many yachts and tenders. It works tremendously for blocking Diesel engine noise.

I’m hoping the thinsulate can take the place of the closed cell foam so that I can get a thermal barrier in there and then just buy a sheet of MLV rather than the sandwiched product.

Any thoughts on the thinsulate doing double duty?

 

[Farfrumwork]

On our Sprinter I used this MLV (come with foam decoupler integrated to MLV) on the entire floor (pic). I still have a bunch left, so I'll install it wherever I can fit it and it makes sense.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/insulation/supersoundproofmat.php

I use Rammatt to lessen resonance all over. Much like Dynomat, but cheaper. I've used this stuff on all kinds of cars for years. I don't use too much, just some panels here and there - rap on the panel to see where it is needed and slap some on.

I used the Thinsulate that Hien sells for the walls, slider, and rear door(roof is a SMB top) and will stick a piece over the cab. I will probably add some Rammatt and Thinsulate in the front doors when I get in there. Basically 'add quietness' wherever I can.

The van is SOOOO much quieter than it was stock now, but that's not hard sense it was an empty cargo van to begin with.

 

[Justgosurfin]

On our Sprinter I used this MLV (come with foam decoupler integrated to MLV) on the entire floor (pic). I still have a bunch left, so I'll install it wherever I can fit it and it makes sense.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/insulation/supersoundproofmat.php

I use Rammatt to lessen resonance all over. Much like Dynomat, but cheaper. I've used this stuff on all kinds of cars for years. I don't use too much, just some panels here and there - rap on the panel to see where it is needed and slap some on.

I used the Thinsulate that Hien sells for the walls, slider, and rear door(roof is a SMB top) and will stick a piece over the cab. I will probably add some Rammatt and Thinsulate in the front doors when I get in there. Basically 'add quietness' wherever I can.

The van is SOOOO much quieter than it was stock now, but that's not hard sense it was an empty cargo van to begin with.[/QUOTE

Looks good. What are the covers you have over the wheel wells, what thickness was the floor mlv and did you consider adding it on the walls at all? I spoke to Steve at Soundown and he suggested exactly what you used for the floor. They have great pricing, not sure how shipping factors in.

http://www.soundown.com/carpet under.htm

We’ll see how deep I’m going to dive but the biggest goal for me is the engine space. The diesel just really gets anoying after a while.

 

[Farfrumwork]

The MLV is around 5/16" thick, maybe a bit more but not quite 3/8". You could use it on the walls, but we went with Rammatt to lessen vibrations and a full covering of Thinsulate, then enclosed with a wall panel. That has cut the noise significantly. (I have temporary/template double thick corrugate for wall panels for now). The MLV would take some good adhesives to get it to stay on the walls, its 1lb/ft^2 in that thickness.

Those wheel well covers are from MBZ - factory covers. They really help cut down tire and road noise. (I installed some Rammatt on the wheel wells too)

 

[s.e.charles]

I just started reading this build site: http://ourkaravan.com/insulation/ some thorough research went into the planning & building process. he used a product which I had completely forgotten: Lizard Skin. I think there's a series of similar products, including home-brews out of latex paint an glass beads (like used in fiberglassing systems) which will deaden sound & reduce temperatures without bulk.

might be helpful in dog-house area?

 

[luthj]

As an engineer, lizard skin is pure snake oil for insulation. It does have some panel resonance reduction. It will not absorb sound like products made for this purpose. Note that lizard skin does not list the results of third party accepted tests for thermal and sound insulation values. One can only conclude that the product is poor in both aspects. Of course materials science and physics also point to this conclusion.

 

[s.e.charles]

As an engineer, lizard skin is pure snake oil for insulation. It does have some panel resonance reduction. It will not absorb sound like products made for this purpose. Note that lizard skin does not list the results of third party accepted tests for thermal and sound insulation values. One can only conclude that the product is poor in both aspects. Of course materials science and physics also point to this conclusion.

is lizard skin an engineer? or you? a bit confusing.

in any event, is there a minimal build-up, brushable product, you could suggest that would incorporate insulative & sound deadening qualities?

can a bazillion hot rodders be that wrong?

 

[luthj]

Sorry, I am an engineer.

can a bazillion hot rodders be that wrong?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

there a minimal build-up, brushable product, you could suggest that would incorporate insulative & sound deadening qualities?

No, materials science basically says such a product can't be made. LS adds mass which can reduce panel resonance. But for the price there are much better options.

I work on aircraft. If such a miracle product existed, we would be using it.

If lizard skin did what it's touted to do, a few thousand dollars in third party testing would easily verify. This is the industry standard, and all legitimate products test and publish the data.

A product like thinsulate, or closed cell foam (polyethylene, iso, etc) will provide real insulation, and some sound deadening. Better if bonded to the metal.