Is it possible to calculate payload?

[LeftCoastKiteboarding]

Well, one can probably assume that the brakes/trans, etc can handle the weight of the rigs towing capacity. My truck is rated to tow something like 11000lbs. So I know that the systems can handle that. Personally I consider that a HARD cap on capacity. But there is still a bit of room there to increase payload.


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[mrfoamy]

Good Point LeftCoast...never thought of it that way but very logical.

 

[Dalko43]

Well, one can probably assume that the brakes/trans, etc can handle the weight of the rigs towing capacity. My truck is rated to tow something like 11000lbs. So I know that the systems can handle that. Personally I consider that a HARD cap on capacity. But there is still a bit of room there to increase payload.


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Towing is not the same as carrying payload.

Your vehicle has a rated tow capacity and rated payload capacity. Those should be viewed as the "hard caps."

If you own a gasoline 3/4 ton, you probably have some 'wiggle room' in terms of payload, assuming that everything (brakes, chassis, suspension, transmission ,ect.) is identical to 1 ton's which have higher GVWR's. That aside, GVWR and GCWR, and the payload and tow figures derived from those figures, are the "hard caps" you should be dealing with.

 

[IdaSHO]

Well, one can probably assume that the brakes/trans, etc can handle the weight of the rigs towing capacity.

That would be a dangerous assumption, and a wrong one.

Do you honestly think a 1-ton pickup with a tow rating of 20k+ has the brakes to stop a 30k trailer without trailer brakes??

 

[chet6.7]

Hmmm...Does this sound right?
Those GVWR numbers in the Ford F350 brochure GVWR/Payload page range from 9,900 to 11,500, all for the F350SC4x4 164" WB. So maybe a snowplow/camper pkg - gas engine - lightly optioned ...the GVWR should be closer to the 11,500. And a diesel heavily optioned should be closer to the 9,900. But it is impossible to tell without the exact build. Does that sound right? A person could add the snowplow/camper pkg and just estimate/rough guess the GVWR?

I think you are correct,engine/gas or diesel +options determine GVWR.
You coud hit a couple dealer's lots and look at the door jams of as many trucks as possible.

 

[LeftCoastKiteboarding]

Well, one can probably assume that the brakes/trans, etc can handle the weight of the rigs towing capacity.

That would be a dangerous assumption, and a wrong one.

Do you honestly think a 1-ton pickup with a tow rating of 20k+ has the brakes to stop a 30k trailer without trailer brakes??

Not sure where you’re getting that. My rig certainly isn’t rated for a 30k trailer. As stated my particular truck is rated to tow around 10k. So it IS pretty safe to assume the engine and transmission can pull that and the truck can stop it.
See my comments above about CARRY capacity. Nowhere do I suggest that a truck can carry its combined weight rating, only that the systems can handle getting that much weight moving and stopping. Nobody is putting 20-30k on the bed of a truck. I think we’re talking about truck campers in the 3000-4000# range. My point is simply that the the truck has more real world capacity than listed on the sticker of the weakest components are upgraded. Almost always this is wheels/tires. I personally carry a camper that weighs in at about 3800# and while that is technically 500# over the listed carry capacity I have upgraded wheels and tires to handle this. That weight is nowhere near the capacity of the other components of the truck so I sleep just fine at night.


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[Buliwyf]

How much do you need to carry in the bed? And how tall is it?

If you order an F350 and are worried about being over on the sticker because your camper is 90% of what your expected haul capacity is........that might still be the wrong truck for you. I have no problem with an F250 getting maxxed out, because it's just a derated F350, and it can handle it with a few mods. But maxxing out a F350 is not a place you want to be.

My F250 XL, (loaded XL), CCSB, gas weighs 6900#. Expect the 350 to be 7000# because of the heavier rear axle. Any diesel I saw on the lot was a full 1000# heavier. Beware the Lariats, KR's, and Plat's, they are at least a 500# penalty.

My F250 has a 3100# capacity and a 10,000# GVWR. My 2015 F350 chassis cab has only a 9800# GVWR. The numbers don't always make sense. The computer that prints out your door sticker, knows the weakest spot of your truck. Might just be a wheel or a wheel bearing. No idea why my Reading box on my F350 makes it's rating so low. You'd think the box is just cargo, and the trucks rating would be the same as a regular cab with a bed, well over 11,000#. But it isn't. Maybe my company accidentally ordered floppy springs?

My F250's tow rating is limited by power to 12,500#. 4.30 gears bump it up another 1000#, IIRC. The F350 DWR 4.10 diesel can tow over 15,000#.

If I'm splitting hairs with the sticker to get my slide-in camper legal, than I'm buying a truck off of the lot that has a sticker I like, or I'm going big with a DRW or F450.

 

[DaveInDenver]

3/4 ton's seem to have an arbitrary hard-cap at 10k lb GVW

There's a lot of games with truck classification within FHWA, DOT, EPA rules. At >10k a truck will probably not be light duty and can't be a passenger vehicle at all. Between 8,500 and 10,000 lbs there's more gray area with light vs medium duty classification and where it falls for emissions.

 

[Buliwyf]

Towing is not the same as carrying payload.

Your vehicle has a rated tow capacity and rated payload capacity. Those should be viewed as the "hard caps."

If you own a gasoline 3/4 ton, you probably have some 'wiggle room' in terms of payload, assuming that everything (brakes, chassis, suspension, transmission ,ect.) is identical to 1 ton's which have higher GVWR's. That aside, GVWR and GCWR, and the payload and tow figures derived from those figures, are the "hard caps" you should be dealing with.

Rear springs on the 2017 F250's. That's it, add spring or air bags, and a sway bar and you're GTG. But I don't like a SRW truck to weigh over 10,000 anyways. I prefer campers that weigh less than 2300#. (Half ton rated slide-ins, LOLz.) 3000+, I want a DRW.

The gas has the 10.5 axle, and the diesel the Dana, but neither of those limit GVWR.

IIRC the "Max Cargo Weight" optional spring setup on the F250, is just a rebadged F350 exactly.

 

[IdaSHO]

Not sure where you’re getting that. My rig certainly isn’t rated for a 30k trailer. As stated my particular truck is rated to tow around 10k. So it IS pretty safe to assume the engine and transmission can pull that and the truck can stop it.
See my comments above about CARRY capacity. Nowhere do I suggest that a truck can carry its combined weight rating, only that the systems can handle getting that much weight moving and stopping. Nobody is putting 20-30k on the bed of a truck. I think we’re talking about truck campers in the 3000-4000# range. My point is simply that the the truck has more real world capacity than listed on the sticker of the weakest components are upgraded. Almost always this is wheels/tires. I personally carry a camper that weighs in at about 3800# and while that is technically 500# over the listed carry capacity I have upgraded wheels and tires to handle this. That weight is nowhere near the capacity of the other components of the truck so I sleep just fine at night.


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Getting what?
I referred to one specific note. BRAKES.

As you said....

Well, one can probably assume that the brakes/trans, etc can handle the weight of the rigs towing capacity.

Unless Im not understanding this statement... you are assuming that the tow rig brakes are up to the task of stopping at GCWR, without the use of trailer brakes.
If that is the case, you are wrong.

 

[IdaSHO]

My F250 XL, (loaded XL), CCSB, gas weighs 6900#. Expect the 350 to be 7000# because of the heavier rear axle. Any diesel I saw on the lot was a full 1000# heavier. Beware the Lariats, KR's, and Plat's, they are at least a 500# penalty.

My F250 has a 3100# capacity and a 10,000# GVWR. My 2015 F350 chassis cab has only a 9800# GVWR. The numbers don't always make sense. .

Nope, GVWR doesnt always make sense.
But as you mentioned, a F250 can and does have a higher payload than a F350, especially if its a gasser.

Thats the exact reason I went with a heavy spec F250 gasser.

My 2011 F250 6.2 weighs just 6500lbs. It is a 10k GVWR truck.

There is GOOD $$$$ reasons why these trucks are "only" rated to 10k when the trucks are obviously built for more.
Hell, just going by axle ratings my little 3/4 ton Super Duty has a rating of roughly 17,000.
Thats 9700lbs or so for the rear Sterling 10.5 and roughly 7000lbs for the front super dana 60.
Wheels and tires, I'm good for about 16,000 at max PSI.

Also, for those that are interested in more reasons the GVWR numbers dont always seem to make sense...
Just follow the $$$

Pushing past that you get into Class 3, that is taxed and regulated completely differently.

 

[LeftCoastKiteboarding]

@IdaSHO that is EXACTLY my point.


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[LeftCoastKiteboarding]

@IdaSHO that is EXACTLY my point.


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[LeftCoastKiteboarding]

@IdaSHO that is EXACTLY my point.


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[LeftCoastKiteboarding]

Arrrrggg..sorry for the spam posts. Stupid cell phone . Again, nowhere am I suggesting towing/hauling 30k. Not even sure if these trucks are rated at that... Do the new trucks actually have that high of a tow rating? I do, however, know that my truck will indeed tow...and stop...it's rated capacity. I think it's rated at somewhere around 10K, maybe a little more. But when we're talking CARRY, the weakest link becomes suspension, wheels, etc and are rated MUCH lower than that. So.....if you go with the lowest rated component in the system....in this case, while carrying, that determines safe capability.

That said, anyone not comfortable calculating this stuff themselves should pretty much stick to the sticker value. Or buy a 450 or bigger truck. To each their own.