Is the Queen mattress in RV's a luxury or bad marketing?

tirod3

Active member
The history of what we sleep on isn't a universally accepted practice, how that evolved in western society is now the province of marketing. After WWII, the mattress industry was trying to sell two twin beds to married couples, and it has to be asked if all those racy scene's in 50's movies were just product placement ads, more than pearl clutching censors. It's the same era the Queen and King mattress were being pushed as industry wanted to keep the same production levels post war. There are interesting stories of how some projects collapsed after the war, aka the "sheet metal house" which was stamped and could be put up in days. It was based on the cheap sheet metal stamping industry's wartime production, which soured.

The bedding manufacturers were trying to avoid the same. Ergo, sell those mattresses! Since the double mattress was the standard of comfort up to the 50's, imagine something more expensive and then convince the consumer it's the cat's pajamas and they will buy it. There were even marketing campaigns to get homeowners to measure their mattresses to see what they were missing.

Fast forward to now, and this has obviously infiltrated RV's. While it's just keen for kids to sleep in bunks, by no means will anything less than a Queen be tolerated for the grownups. Oh no, tho, road laws and overwidth permits might ensue, which is why the RV Queen is shorter. That 80" or 85" or whatever limit seems to have intruded.

What I'm proposing is that the Queen itself has invaded into floor planning in an RV, to the detriment of the user and the industry as a whole. Once you toss out the concept it is the only option, then certain impositions on floor space, and the mattress being a hog on square footage come into question. This goes double for the shorter, smaller units, to the point where a teardrop is nothing more than a large mattress hauler with exterior pantry.

And nobody questions it?

Same for truck slide ins, and now with shortbed four doors, the issue is even worse. Where is it engraved in stone that a Queen mattress is the only acceptable solution? The RV market will tell us that is what the public wants, they buy them all the time, the public, tho, tells us that is what they buy because it's the ONLY thing available. Do some research online tho, the DIY group exercises quite a few alternatives: hammocks, for a start, internally or a hitch mount, and did you know there are winter capable hammocks with insulation? Futons are common, you can see the slide out frame with interleaved slats as a common feature in vans, minimizing the impact of bedding encroachment for day use as a couch. And there is also the now underused method of just sleeping on the floor. With backpacker to tent inflatables, it's a simple exercise. The 16 hour "day" space becomes an area unencumbered with obtrusive stuffing taking it all up.

I can say in my experience I have never seen a Queen mattress in the field while in the military. It was conspicuously absent, and for the most part, we got along just the same. What we got, was the ubiquitous cot, that Machiavellian instrument of torture, with aluminum tubing corners strategically placed to strike elbows and knees at just the wrong angles. Yet, we did sleep. I still have one and use it. I now prefer the zero gravity type lounger, which is the outdoor equivalent to the Lazy Boy recliner, also known as the retiree's coffin. Growing up we all talked about dad's who finally quit work which resulted in succumbing to the siren song of the recliner in six months.

I note recliners in RV's are a thing, too. Hmm.

Are we allowing suburbia to set the standards on how we furnish or build an RV? Seems so. Little wheeled micro mini me's of the gated community homesite, with wall to wall carpeting, large screen tv, etc etc etc. Or, is it simply because they are purchased because it's all there is? What happened to the simplicity of the Airstream? Sadly, it's no longer the aircraft cabin it used to be, a singularly different look. It seems the decadence of the 80s brass and glass has evolved into the current flip a home styling as shown on influencer channels. Out with the shag, in with the white and gray.

Nobody is building for the function, just a form of luxury, and the more glitz that can be added to impress the neighbors, the better. Even the graphics are now over the top. All because of the Queen mattress being stuffed into the floor plan. This too shall pass, and giving another ten years, we are going to see some significant changes. When toy haulers are the standard, with vehicles inside dripping mud on the floor, then new concepts and how to deal with a different idea of interior decor that can resist mechanical intrusion will require new materials. We will have to give up luan, folks, and the Queen? Good riddance.
 

86scotty

Cynic
Interesting take.

Also interesting to post it on this forum. The last thing I think of in terms of overland/adventure is mass market RV's. They are a totally different thing for a totally different purpose by a totally different buyer, though I agree the creep is there.

I've never thought of 'queen' bed in an RV/camper of any sort to be necessarily exact, just a word that means 'bigger than average' bed.

But I don't typically buy RV's, I build them, and almost always I have custom foam cut for the mattress that fits the need/application.
 

86scotty

Cynic
Only a bot would say 'nefarious conspiracy'. This is America after all. We're too busy eating and sleeping to waste time on that many syllables. You could just say 'them, they did it'. ;)

I'm honestly not sure about this guy either. I've thought about this a lot, even while being the irrational human being who types too much on his oil filter thread.

I digress.......
 

tirod3

Active member
I posted a thread on who is most likely to suggest Im a bot. Let me go one step into that - just surf my login. It's been around for two decades. I will countersuggest that those who are ill equipped and lack the literacy that my generation was trained to achieve is the real issue. We were educated to use the manual Dewey Decimal system in school, research term papers and write them, minimum 500 word/10 pages single space, have notes at the bottom, and also hand type it all. A minimum of 10 foot notes required, which meant formatting the page BY HAND as you typed it to leave enough room for them, then you had to type all the references in full at the end.

Which should also answer why my wife and I chose to homeschool our children in an age of declining literacy. If that isn't obvious, then the sidelining replies above trying to interrupt the conversation are proofs enough.

I have no objection to someone deliberately choosing a large size mattress for their use, my objection, as already pointed out, is that much of what we have to select from is already prechosen for us in this market and therein lies the issue - are we buying it because we want it, or because it's the only choice. I don't write these topics to appeal to those who object to the subject, I write them for the hundreds of readers to reflect on who can make their own independent decisions. They are obviously clicking on the thread and reading it - which then begs the question, why the concerted effort of late to bait comment about me being a bot? All it does is sideline and cast aspersions on the literacy my generation attained and subsequent generations lack. We didn't much care for the indepth training at the time, now I find it not only a valuable tool but also something few others have seemed to master, while apparently applying themselves to innuendo.

Over the last 15 years it's been noted across the internet that forums are declining, and the biggest reason is that younger generations come on board and question the abilities of others despite lacking that ability themself. They object to the topics yet have no skill themselves, lack education on the matter at hand, even dispute matters which were resolved long ago as a means of gaining online credibility. It seems to be more important that a conversation over topics many new to the hobby would appreciate.

The result is the posters who can express themselves on technical subjects stop posting, the forum post count drops, less traffic reduces the ad rates, the spiral of declining interest causes the public to seek other information sources, and then in the worst cases - which are increasing rapidly of late - the forum closes when the servers shut down. Its apparent that is exactly what is intended here.

I will still be posting when the botnets are shut down.
 
Weird focus on age and literacy. I'll see the typed term papers with a History degree from the 1960s and up the ante with a Mensa card. Add a trailer (with smaller than Queen) that I actually camped in this week. I think you'll find that if you post from personal experience it will be better received than this regurgitation of Google. JMO.
 

rruff

Explorer
Part of my reaction was that you posted a lengthy harangue about how mattress size drives the RV industry's floor planning on a DIY site.
Well... it sort of relates... maybe, because people tend to get dependent on what they are used to at home (large beds), and then transfer that over to their camping rigs. Many things that are considered necessary for "comfortable camping", would fall into the same category.

I slept with 3 different women for years in my old truck, on a 36" wide bed. They all seemed to like being pinned to the wall, especially the last one...
 

AbleGuy

Officious Intermeddler
It seems pretty simple:

Fatter people need bigger mattresses. Bigger girths need bigger berths.

In 1960, the average man weighed 166 pounds and the average woman weighed 140 pounds. Today, the average man weighs 195 pounds and the average woman weighs 169 pounds.


(My wife and I share a 42” wide mattress in our tiny camper van, FWIW)
 

jkam

nomadic man
My little 28 year old Lazy Daze 24' RV has two queen sized beds in it.
One in the overhead bunk and then the couch pulls out to become a queen as well.
I use the overhead as a storage area and sleep on the couch, but not pulled out all the way.
 

tirod3

Active member
I've been on the net since 2004 give or take a year. Since before this forum existed. I don't limit my literacy skills just because others don't have any. It's a print media forum, this is what print media does among the adults who grew up with it.

Lets expand the Queen mattress disfunction mathematically: A scientific fact named the Square Cube Law says that as surface area doubles, the volume goes up by cube. It's seen in nature, and it's a significant issue with our material possessions. A known object cannot simply be scaled up into a larger size because of this law, it creates significant issues leading directly to failure. That can be catastrophic. In the case of an airplane, making something bigger will cause the wings to have less lift for the new size of the structure, which will also weigh more. At a certain point, it just won't even take off.

Look at RV's, you double the square feet in the floor plan, you triple the cubic feet inside. That affects what materials you make it from, it's aerodynamic profile, it's weight, etc. Same with mattresses, going from a "double" sized mattress in the early '50s - ah, nostalgia - to the modern Queen with box spring, we have now made what is essentially a sleeping platform into a intrusive, oversized, and gynormous feature of a RV which is principally a shelter from bad weather, pushing aside the other necessary functions until they are deleted.

Move from a 24' to 17' to 9' floor plan and insist on the Queen mattress as the only option, we see things priortized, and sequentially deleted as the floor plan gets smaller, while the Queen mattress becomes larger and less productive. In no particular order, the day space becomes more limited as the mattress remains obstrusively hogging up floorplan, then a shower has to go, forcing the toilet to hide with no privacy of it's own, then the storage space is cut back, the kitchen becomes radically limited, until it's shoved into a large pullout drawer, and you wind up with a tiny upholstered cube for the ever present Queen while the rest of it all can go stand out in the rain.

Anyone who has traveled outdoors on foot for days at a time knows you can sleep on the ground, no mattress at all. It's nice to have a bit of padding tho, so we roll up some resilient foam. My issue sleeping mat, however, got cut down it was too wide to put up with hauling it thru brush, and far too long. When you carry it on your back, ounces matter, and those photo op pics of soldiers with a huge field pack deplaning in the sand are just that, staged publicity. In real life, carrying a knife with a blade over 4" is seriously questioned, because of all the other mandated gear that someone "what iffing" a situation demands be present. Square Cube law kicks in and the people who run with bare minimum gear are much faster, quicker, and also less fatigued.

Hauling around a lot of gear in a small RV means justifying each and every piece of it - that lack of surface area on the floor plan means stuffing in all the "what if" simply doesn't work. Load limits, actual physical space, and need intrude. We need to dispose of our body waste in an ethical and socially acceptable manner - we aren't bears - we need to remain clean over the long run, we need to eat food made safely absent contamination and disease. Do we need a Queen mattress with box spring to eliminate other features all because "it's always the way it's been done?" Its NOT always the way it's been done, and plenty are doing without in other outdoor activities.

When we build a DIY camper, we aren't normally putting together glampmobiles with extensive fittings, slide outs, etc. A pop up is a stretch - therefore, when we create a floor plan for habitation, considering it's the worst case weather where we are actually stuffed in it for long periods of time, then the worst case accoutrements become much more important. This "camp in the desert" attitude that has recently infused the hobby doesn't work for most of us, we aren't a desert nation. We are a temperate climate from the east coast right up to and thru the Rockies, inclement weather is common, and shelter from it has more priority. That means 16 hours of the day needs the priority - not the 8 hours we are racked out snoring. Queen mattresses aren't everybody's best answer, if anything for the two week a year user, they modify their schedule to take advantage of not being in the camper in daylight hours enjoying dry scenic weather. It's a crutch, tho, and when it comes down to arriving on location and making the best of what is thrown at us, can be distinctly difficult when the only furniture you have indoors is a plushy flat surface taking up a majority of the floor space. That was fine when we were toddlers, not so much as adults.

Applying the Square Cube Law, the smaller you make the floorplan, the less space you have, and more quickly. It demands a much closer attention to the ratio of needs and their layout. Insisting that one feature can't change at the expense of the others isn't creating an intelligent, efficient use of space - it's demanding we shoehorn in a feature that could and should be reduced. Seems all the other needs have to be sacrificed on the altar of the Queen first, and that kind of royal intrusion isn't what Americans are known to put up with historically. Like a safety nozzle on a gas can - it's gotten so safe many won't buy one at all, they buy cans of fuel premixed (with no nozzle) or go electric. What we are seeing in the RV industry is a lack of affordable campers or the desire to buy one. We DIY them, or, at least, those of us who can.

We need to trim down the Queen mattress to its essential size to meet its proportional share of the limited space in a DIY trailer. As I pointed out, some van campers use hammocks - no mattress at all - and they stealth camp year round. If we can invent dinettes that become a sleeping platform, why then shove in a mattress which isn't useful for anything else?

 

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