Jeep dealer meeting sheds light on future models

[AZJim]

I wasn't aware that Maximum Bob had written a book, will have to look for it. Thanks.
Chrysler was ahead of Mercedes when it came to processes, in fact had to go backwards to be in step with the germans. It seems like the European way of doing engineering is a step or two behind the Americans.
I understand the need for sharing platforms, most of Chryslers are/were older than Fiats, so it was easier and cheaper to adapt theirs. Time and money were limited. And of course more shared platforms equals more profit per vehicle. The future will be sharing newly developed platforms, such as the new rwd one with Alfa. they showed off some future products at the dealer show already based on that.
When we were refreshing our products, 2011 ish, the best thing, according to the different platforms, was that Sergio left them alone, except to push them to do better and put more into the vehicle. The opposite of the Daimler enforced MCM. Material cost management. Where they had to take everything out. Sergios not perfect that's for sure. But it felt like the difference between night and day.

Jim

 

[justcuz]

So Mercedes and Fiat ruined Chrysler. For crying out loud. Chrysler has been hanging on by hair for many many years. Chrysler is responsible for their disaster.

That was before Chrysler bought AMC. Chrysler got some huge talent out of AMC, guys that could work under pressure with minimal budget and still come up with something. They were creative, smart and team players, most of those guys were behind the Chrysler turnaround of the 90's. They used the team concept to design and build cars and it sped up the process, shook up the status quo at Chrysler and they started to turn a profit. Daimler was in a 10 year slump of building crappy product, they wanted the money and some of Chryslers technology. The mistake they made was sending Schrempp over, a jerk. Dieter Zetsche was better but he had to go back to Germany to fix Mercedes. By the time it was done Chrysler was in shreds, most of the smart guys left for other companies or retired.

 

[justcuz]

I wasn't aware that Maximum Bob had written a book, will have to look for it. Thanks.
Chrysler was ahead of Mercedes when it came to processes, in fact had to go backwards to be in step with the germans. It seems like the European way of doing engineering is a step or two behind the Americans.
I understand the need for sharing platforms, most of Chryslers are/were older than Fiats, so it was easier and cheaper to adapt theirs. Time and money were limited. And of course more shared platforms equals more profit per vehicle. The future will be sharing newly developed platforms, such as the new rwd one with Alfa. they showed off some future products at the dealer show already based on that.
When we were refreshing our products, 2011 ish, the best thing, according to the different platforms, was that Sergio left them alone, except to push them to do better and put more into the vehicle. The opposite of the Daimler enforced MCM. Material cost management. Where they had to take everything out. Sergios not perfect that's for sure. But it felt like the difference between night and day.

Jim

Lutz has written a few books, you will find "Icons and Idiots" and "Car Guys vs Beancounters" entertaining reads.
Word is Sergio is pretty hard on suppliers himself.

 

[AZJim]

Spot on justcuz. Couldn't have said it better. That was the push to have a huge cash reserve to survive a downturn. Avoid getting fat and lazy, it was always think lean and act lean. It was fantastic to work with these teams in the nineties. We used to have an exec ride and drive every January. And after all the reviews there was a course set up on the VDF with sanctioned timers and the execs would race each other for best time with different vehicles, well all execs except minimum bob eaton. Most of the execs were down to earth and would talk to you and even ask your opinion. The company was run by car/Jeep enthusiasts. Castiang sp? was great, he only knew two throttle positions, closed and wide open. That guy could drive. If I remember correctly he had spent time with the Renault formula team is some capacity. So could most of the others. I sure miss those days, at the time thought it would never end, we had the world by the tail.

Jim

 

[AZJim]

Yes he is, but I think Sergio is getting better with the suppliers, as there has been some recent changes. At one time Chrysler had the best supplier relations in the business. A good relationship with suppliers is golden.

Jim

 

[justcuz]

Absolutely, suppliers are the heart and soul of the business. Without good ones your product suffers. Kind of like pissing off the cook, you'll get a crummy meal.
I can mail you those books if you PM me your address.
It's a shame that a car company can't save for a rainy day without some corporate raiders wanting it.
GM used to save 10-15% of their annual earnings to make it through lean times before WWII.
Now most corporations are afraid to be too profitable because someone wants to come in and rob the piggy bank. So you have to cook the books and hide assets.

 

[Dan Grec]

Photos have shown up of what appears to be a JK with a bigger cowl:

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...in-the-desert-will-grow-in-length-99641.html#

It's pretty clear there is something strange about the whole drive line - like it's lower than it normally is, and the gas tank looks absolutely massive.

Testing a different engine and/or drive line, perhaps?

Now I wonder what kind of engine/gear box combination would need more length.
And why would they cover the grill? It looks like a stock JK grill, so maybe it's what's behind the grill they are trying to cover...

-Dan

 

[smlobx]

We should be getting a Wrangler based pick up too!!
I hope it will have the 3.0 diesel...

 

[justcuz]

Possibly a diesel and an inter cooler? Probably setting lower due to the weight of the test equipment. They either load the car up, tow a trailer or both. The exhaust system has a resonator ahead of the big muffler across the rear.
If that is a fuel tank it must be there for testing, surely it sets to low for production. It is behind the axle housing so it looks odd in that location for sure.

 

[SSF556]

Possibly a diesel and an inter cooler? Probably setting lower due to the weight of the test equipment. They either load the car up, tow a trailer or both. The exhaust system has a resonator ahead of the big muffler across the rear.
If that is a fuel tank it must be there for testing, surely it sets to low for production. It is behind the axle housing so it looks odd in that location for sure.

Could be a DEF tank as well

 

[AZJim]

The greater length in front of the windshield will probably be to make room for the longer 8 speed automatic. I wouldn't be concerned about the fuel tank, since it's a mule they may have had to move it to allow for different suspension geometry or components. In one of the front pics that you can see the suspension, it almost looks like aluminum steering knuckles. Also be forewarned when it does get to production, IF the windshield no longer folds down, don't get mad at Jeep, it will be because of the new crash regulations.

Jim

 

[DEFENDERBEAM]

Could be a DEF tank as well

I bet you're right!

I have seen some new trucks (duramax in particular) where the DEF hangs way low.

VERY annoying and hideous!

 

[screwball48]

Anyone have any pictures of a chrysler/fiat def tank to compare?


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[GFA]

I have a hard time believing that a test vehicle pulled over for a photo shoot...

 

[justcuz]

They pull over all the time to change drivers, check the wiring, and generally eyeball the vehicle. Usually do it in the same place as well. So a smart spy photographer follows for a day or so, then finds a nice spot to hide out and shoot pictures. They usually have very high powered lenses. To the untrained eye that's just a regular Jeep.
When Ford owned the Yucca Proving Grounds we watched them test pre production prototypes. They had a loop that went to Bullhead City, then up north toward Kingman and I'm sure right back out to Yucca some way.
They were always wired up like that Jeep and many times were towing a trailer. If you looked inside they had all kinds of devices inside the vehicle. They were loaded to the gills with test equipment.