"Jeep Panda" coming in mid-2011?
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
Zeero
Adventurer
Hummer, remained profitable without little dinky cars.....
Land Rover remained profitable without dinky cars (Yes the Freelander was a smaller thing, but nothing lie the COmpass or Panda)
Both never "went away"......and even thought they may be switching owners regularly, they are still around and still producing full SUV's as their primary market......
So, with that in mind, knowing that the Wrangler and Cherokee models alone sell more and sell faster than both Land Rover and Hummer, why does Jeep need to branch off into this dinky car world.
They dont need to....and they should be remaining true to how the brand started.....just like Hummer and Land Rover.....both of which have stayed true and inline and didn't wuss out to try and please everyone.
Hummer, as much as I don't like them, I have to give credit to especially....they have been building big hulking SUVs since the begining (AM General / GM) and not once did they sway from their roots, they KNEW people hated them, but they also knew they had a loyal fan base, and catered strictly to them.....and although they have been sold, they are still going to be around, and are still going to produce nothing but, big hulking SUVs.
There is no question at all that Jeep, stand alone, could do the same. Roll solid with nothing but the Wrangler and it various packages, the Cherokee and it various packages, and the Liberty with its various packages.....AND NOTHING ELSE.....they would do JUST FINE, and most certainly would not just "go away".
All Jeep is doing with these other STUPID models is wussing out hard to try and please everyone.....and as far as I'm concerned, if Chrysler wants to bring in retarded little models that have nothing to do with Jeep heritage, they should be branding them as Chryslers or Plymouths.....not Dodge, not Jeep.
The Wrangler, the Cherokee and the Liberty out sell Land Rover and Hummer vehicles solidly every year. There is no reason why they can't be stand alone.
Stick with heritage, stick with roots, simplify, stick with what works, and stick to your loyal fan base, just like the others.
Land Rover remained profitable without dinky cars (Yes the Freelander was a smaller thing, but nothing lie the COmpass or Panda)
Both never "went away"......and even thought they may be switching owners regularly, they are still around and still producing full SUV's as their primary market......
So, with that in mind, knowing that the Wrangler and Cherokee models alone sell more and sell faster than both Land Rover and Hummer, why does Jeep need to branch off into this dinky car world.
They dont need to....and they should be remaining true to how the brand started.....just like Hummer and Land Rover.....both of which have stayed true and inline and didn't wuss out to try and please everyone.
Hummer, as much as I don't like them, I have to give credit to especially....they have been building big hulking SUVs since the begining (AM General / GM) and not once did they sway from their roots, they KNEW people hated them, but they also knew they had a loyal fan base, and catered strictly to them.....and although they have been sold, they are still going to be around, and are still going to produce nothing but, big hulking SUVs.
There is no question at all that Jeep, stand alone, could do the same. Roll solid with nothing but the Wrangler and it various packages, the Cherokee and it various packages, and the Liberty with its various packages.....AND NOTHING ELSE.....they would do JUST FINE, and most certainly would not just "go away".
All Jeep is doing with these other STUPID models is wussing out hard to try and please everyone.....and as far as I'm concerned, if Chrysler wants to bring in retarded little models that have nothing to do with Jeep heritage, they should be branding them as Chryslers or Plymouths.....not Dodge, not Jeep.
The Wrangler, the Cherokee and the Liberty out sell Land Rover and Hummer vehicles solidly every year. There is no reason why they can't be stand alone.
Stick with heritage, stick with roots, simplify, stick with what works, and stick to your loyal fan base, just like the others.
BKCowGod
Automotive ADHD is fun!
Neither of your examples actually "remained profitable", though. Both changed owners regularly. Land Rover (the company) was once sold for less than the cost of one of their cars, simply because the company had so much debt that buying it was a negative proposition. Hummer had one of the most rapid and spectacular growth/failure cycles since Delorean. And which loyal fan base are we talking about here? Not a single Jeep made in the last decade appeals to me and at one point I owned three Jeeps. Does that mean I'm not a loyal fan?
Oh, and are you suuuuuure Rover never made dinky cars? Just because BL and Rover Group stopped importing them and focused only on the Land/Range Rover. Again we have marketing that has put blinders on people. The Jeep badge is just a badge that is to be put on whatever vehicle will sell by whatever company owns it for the next half-decade.
SGV
Adventurer
I don't see what the problem with Jeep selling the Patriot or making softer focused vehicles. Not everyone is going to hit the Rubicon with their Jeep, but many Patriot owners may use it for light trails on their way to launch kayaks or go for a hike. Also, I think they are a pretty good looking vehicle. For a daily driver, I am sure it would make a much better commuter than my old XJ and YJ. With the cost of fuel continuing to rise, I think it is nice that a company like Jeep would offer less thirsty vehicles to us. For its intended purpose, it offers a competition to the Subaru Forester but with the added bonus of low-range on some packages. There aren't many vehicles like this out there: Patriot, 2nd gen Grand Vitara, maybe one or two more (the rest are just Camry's and Accords on stilts). I think it is too bad that the Patriot and Compass are off the table in a couple years, so I am looking forward to seeing what Fiat brings to the brand as well as to our market.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
It always cracks me up when I hear people talking about "heritage", "soul", etc. in reference to automobiles. Took the marketing kool-aid and drank it till your eyes turned the colour of the logo.
Look, we are talking about steel boxes with a wheel at each corner. Each box has its merits and its downsides. If you think there is more to it you really need to spend a few weekends wandering the junk yards and look for these vehicle's "heritage" or "soul" eviscerated and on display for all to see.
Jeep should do whatever it takes to remain viable. The new Wramgler is arguably the best stock Jeep ever produced. Thing is, they can't make enough of that one model to stay viable in today's market. The buyers aren't there.
Same when you add in the WK platform. Look at the XK - discontinued even though it was in my mind a better option than the WK. Aren't they discontinuing the WK diesel because there wasn't enough interest?
These little soft-roaders don't diffuse the Jeep brand in the least. If anything they make the Jeep brand more viable as it makes more people aware of Jeep's existence. If it really rots your shorts that they are making these things just think of it as a "training Jeep".
We "Jeep people" are not the public. We are probably the 1% of 1% that care about this kind of stuff. People that don't buy Jeeps are really quite unaware of any of this. They just have some vague fuzzy idea of a boxy vehicle that has a soft top or are bored with GranDad's old war stories about the mechanical mule that could. That's pretty much the extent of your "heritage" and "soul" beyond our little microcosm.
Alternate scenario: Jeep goes t!ts up and TLC starts bringing a FJ70 like vehicle to North America to fill the void left in the market place. Personally, I wouldn't care. It's a steel box with a wheel at each corner. If it says Toyota or Jeep on the hood is irrelevant. I care about the merits and downsides of the steal box.
Additionally, there are SOOOOOOO many used vehicles out there. Does any of this really matter to us?
Look, we are talking about steel boxes with a wheel at each corner. Each box has its merits and its downsides. If you think there is more to it you really need to spend a few weekends wandering the junk yards and look for these vehicle's "heritage" or "soul" eviscerated and on display for all to see.
Jeep should do whatever it takes to remain viable. The new Wramgler is arguably the best stock Jeep ever produced. Thing is, they can't make enough of that one model to stay viable in today's market. The buyers aren't there.
Same when you add in the WK platform. Look at the XK - discontinued even though it was in my mind a better option than the WK. Aren't they discontinuing the WK diesel because there wasn't enough interest?
These little soft-roaders don't diffuse the Jeep brand in the least. If anything they make the Jeep brand more viable as it makes more people aware of Jeep's existence. If it really rots your shorts that they are making these things just think of it as a "training Jeep".
We "Jeep people" are not the public. We are probably the 1% of 1% that care about this kind of stuff. People that don't buy Jeeps are really quite unaware of any of this. They just have some vague fuzzy idea of a boxy vehicle that has a soft top or are bored with GranDad's old war stories about the mechanical mule that could. That's pretty much the extent of your "heritage" and "soul" beyond our little microcosm.
Alternate scenario: Jeep goes t!ts up and TLC starts bringing a FJ70 like vehicle to North America to fill the void left in the market place. Personally, I wouldn't care. It's a steel box with a wheel at each corner. If it says Toyota or Jeep on the hood is irrelevant. I care about the merits and downsides of the steal box.
Additionally, there are SOOOOOOO many used vehicles out there. Does any of this really matter to us?
Last edited:
CA-RJ
Expo Approved™
Believe me, I know all about "The Jeep Thing". I've owned three, wheeled my first TJ hard and loved every minute of it. I drank all the Jeep cool-aid I could find. In the end, Jeep making softer SUV's or importing Fiats and putting a Jeep logo doesn't bother me.
Sorry, but I have to say that you jus don't get it. First of all, it is not Jeep who makes the dinky little car, it's a Fiat. Rebadging it is not something that will happen, but a consultancy agency's idea of what might happen, not a week after Fiat have taken over Chrysler. It cannot be taken serious!
Land Rover (where is Rover, the original company producing the Range Rover, the Land Rover and the Discovery btw today?) is not a viable business. Since 2000, when the company was sold by BMW to the Ford Motor Company, becoming part of their Premier Automotive Group. It was sold again in June 2008 when Ford sold its Jaguar and Land Rover operations to Tata Motors. Do you think BMW, Ford and all the other owners of Land Rover would have let it go if it where a sound profitable brand?
Hummer is not a viable brand either and saying that Hummer stayed true to its origins is like saying an Excalibur is a perfect up-to-date version of a Duesenberg. original Hummers, from the army version to the first civil ones, where never about 24" bling rims and playstation in the glove-box. When you take a highly refined and innovative frame and suspension, one of the truly great leaps in offroad technology, and discard it for a solid rear axle and mall-cruising ghetto looks you loose every bit of heritage! Hummer H2 and H3 are as real as a fibreglass '67 Mustang Fastback body on a '88 Corolla!
-And remember (I know this is a hard one) Chrysler doesn't want anything, Chrysler is a sub-dividion of for Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino now, so Chrysler does not decide whether or not "Chrysler wants to bring in retarded little models that have nothing to do with Jeep heritage" Chrysler does what the owners decide.
It's just hard economic facts. And instead of beating this drum endlessly we should instead be glad that some workplaces have been saved!
I know the above are hard words, but that's the reality of it. History is littered with people and businesses who stayed loyal to the "idea" or the "Brand" and did not take the relevant steps to either sharpen up or get out when time was. The American auto-industry is just the latest victim...
Last edited:
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
FWIW, I think the Panda 4x4 is a cool little critter.
6Pins
Adventurer
Jeep is similar to Land Rover and Porsche in that you know what the brand is. Porsche was very successful with offering 2, maybe 3 Parent models (911, 924, etc. )and then offering different packages with those Parent models. Its only with the addition of the Cayenne and the upcoming Panamerica that they've gotten away from their roots.
Jeep would do well from a simplified line-up based around 3 Parent brands, Wrangler, small UTE and possibly a Commander/Grand Wagoneer vehicle. You could offer the Wrangler in 2, 3 and 4 door versions and keep the 3 trim levels they have today.
Jeep would do well from a simplified line-up based around 3 Parent brands, Wrangler, small UTE and possibly a Commander/Grand Wagoneer vehicle. You could offer the Wrangler in 2, 3 and 4 door versions and keep the 3 trim levels they have today.
Last edited:
Remember how sales of the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee "tanked" (so to speak!) when the price of gas rose past $3.50 a gallon last year? Well, gas costs $2.70 around here this weekend, and has been rising 10 cents a week. At this rate, we'll be well above $3.00 a gallon by mid-Summer.
Jeep dealers want and need a less expensive, more fuel efficient vehicle to have on the showroom floor when nobody will look at a vehicle with sub-20 mpg EPA numbers. No, the Compass doesn't qualify!
Chip Haven
Jeep dealers want and need a less expensive, more fuel efficient vehicle to have on the showroom floor when nobody will look at a vehicle with sub-20 mpg EPA numbers. No, the Compass doesn't qualify!
Chip Haven
x32792
Adventurer
Poor Little Jeep
The more I read about anything Jeep, the harder it gets not to think they don't know what they're going to do next. For example, the Panda (Phoenix or whatever) it's gas, then it's diesel, it's coming, it maybe coming, it's not coming and so on until who really knows what the Chrysler line up will be this Fall or how they'll be powered?
Consulting firm IHS Global Insight has released its predictions about the first vehicles that will be produced by the Chrysler-Fiat alliance.
Jeep predictions:
-- "Jeep Panda" will be produced in Toluca, Mexico starting mid-2011
The new vehicle will be based on the Fiat Panda Cross:
-- Jeep Liberty will be built in Toledo Ohio using the Fiat C-EVO platform starting mid 2012.
The C-EVO platform will be used in a wide range of vehicles, from Fiats to Alfa Romeo, maybe
even the new larger MINI vehicles.
-- Jeep Compass and Patriot will be canceled in 2012.
The report, including Chrysler and Dodge models, is summarized here:
http://www.globalinsight.com/Perspective/PerspectiveDetail17010.htm
The more I read about anything Jeep, the harder it gets not to think they don't know what they're going to do next. For example, the Panda (Phoenix or whatever) it's gas, then it's diesel, it's coming, it maybe coming, it's not coming and so on until who really knows what the Chrysler line up will be this Fall or how they'll be powered?