JK traction control issue

ventura911

Adventurer
When you and I drove it I don’t think we talked about tires at all. Are the KO‘s load range C? I have E’s on mine but then I’ve dropped back down to a 33” tire too. I’m running 36 PSI and have the TIPM set to activate at 20. You should swing by and drive mine for a comparison. Glad you’ve figured it out after all the head scratching!!
They’re load range E’s. I ran the last set at 45 psi, had no issues, and got 60,000 miles out of them. This set, however, might be different somehow, perhaps a different compound or bad batch or something? They’ve been rotated every 6,000 miles and aren’t showing any unusual wear.

I’ve got rebuild kits for my track bars en route. If that doesn’t help, then I might have to see about BFG’s warranty.
 

Kmrtnsn

Explorer
7
They’re load range E’s. I ran the last set at 45 psi, had no issues, and got 60,000 miles out of them. This set, however, might be different somehow, perhaps a different compound or bad batch or something? They’ve been rotated every 6,000 miles and aren’t showing any unusual wear.

I’ve got rebuild kits for my track bars en route. If that doesn’t help, then I might have to see about BFG’s warranty.

i can’t remember what you're running for wheels, they’re not 7” wide with spacers are they?
 

ventura911

Adventurer
7


i can’t remember what you're running for wheels, they’re not 7” wide with spacers are they?
They’re the original 17x7.5 Rubicon wheels with 1.5” Spidertrax spacers. The spacers have been on for at least 130,000 miles and appear in good shape, no issues.
 

Kmrtnsn

Explorer
They’re the original 17x7.5 Rubicon wheels with 1.5” Spidertrax spacers. The spacers have been on for at least 130,000 miles and appear in good shape, no issues.

I’m thinking that you’re getting some lateral movement in the tire in the sidewalls, a bit more flexing than normal because you’re running a narrower wheel than recommended for a 35” tire. I think 8.5” is recommended, how much can 1” matter? I think you may have found out!
 

ventura911

Adventurer
I’m thinking that you’re getting some lateral movement in the tire in the sidewalls, a bit more flexing than normal because you’re running a narrower wheel than recommended for a 35” tire. I think 8.5” is recommended, how much can 1” matter? I think you may have found out!
But not with the last set?
 

Kmrtnsn

Explorer
I’m thinking that you’re getting some lateral movement in the tire in the sidewalls, a bit more flexing than normal because you’re running a narrower wheel than recommended for a 35” tire. I think 8.5” is recommended, how much can 1” matter? I think you may have found out!

Those factory looking wheels on my Jeep are actually an inch wider, they're from Quadratec. The have a nice white spoke retro alloy that’d look killer on your Jeep too!
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
If I follow correctly, your test was to put smaller size tires on your jeep, after which it did not have any false activation of stability control. This seems to suggest that your Jeep may indeed be programmed for the stock size tires... If this was the case, then running 35's would make the stability control more likely to falsely detect an oversteer condition when taking sharper turns, particularly up near the limits of comfort, where the threasholds for activation are tighter. (Banked turns on tight curves are tough areas for stability control calibration)

Did you get to double checking the procal settings? That would be the first thing I would do, then verify that the speedo is reading a mph or two faster than you are actually going at 65mph. (Google maps will give your speed if you have it give you directions, and it's pretty accurate.)

If the speedo is indeed accurate, then the tires size programming should be correct. If it reads exactly right, or slower than your actual speed, you need to update the settings to a larger tire size so that it reads just a little high. This would mimic the factory calibration, which is usually a mph or two fast at 65mph.

The next thing I would check is all of your sway bar end links... If you are getting excessive body roll in turns, it can cause a bit of roll steer. That would look like additional yaw vs. what steering angle alone would produce, and would cause you to have some sensitivity, as you do. With aftermarket shocks, you probably wouldn't notice in day to day driving. (Hmm, it was a common failure on TJ's to have the ball stud pulling out, but on JK they fixed it so the stud is 90° to the link, rather than aligned... You should get clunking long before any complete separation on your JK...) How about a bunch of weight on the roof? That'll cause more body roll too.

Perhaps your "issue" is multiple things all contributing a little error... a little speed error due to tire size, plus a little error due to the increase in track width, plus a bit more body roll in turns due to whatever... Running a smaller tire than you are programmed for would cover this up nicely, which is what you saw.

With everything else being OK, you could try removing the spacers and see if that makes enough difference to eliminate the false activations...

I would NOT suspect tire choice would make that much difference unless you hear howling in otherwise comfortable turns. I had some Michelin tires that were just awful long ago, and would howl and slide at posted on-ramp speeds. If you're not getting that, you should have no tire issues. Your pressures seem good for street driving, and sidewall deflection at comfortable speeds is not significant enough to cause issues, IMO. Worst case should actually be a mud tire, with tall squirmy tread blocks, while you report no issues with previous mud tires, but issues running AT's of the same size. That makes no sense, so I don't think it's a factor.

In short, something has changed if you were not getting this before. You said your procal was stolen and replaced. That's a change, and you can check it. Did you add spacers when you put the AT's on, or were they there with the MT's too? Another change perhaps... Aftermarket sway bar would affect things some, worn out links with some slop would be something that would get worse over time...
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
I re-read the thread and it actually sounds like you've had this problem for a LONG time... I don't see how re-paving the road would make any difference, so something caused it to get worse at that time, but the fact that it was present before that seems to be a good indicator that it's not a recent change that is to blame.

It is odd that it only has issues with left turns, not right. This would indicate a bias in either the chassis or the controls... Hard to imagine what a chassis bias would look like with all components in good shape. Most things would zero out in steady state driving. This means that it may be electronic. An issue with the steering angle sensor would likely throw a code of some sort. Yaw rate sensor bias might be harder for the diagnostics to detect... If you friend's JK is also from the first few years, you could try swapping the yaw rate sensors between them. It's under the center console, bolted to the body tunnel. Be gentle with it... :)

Wheel speed sensor dropout will normally throw a code quite quickly... The only time I've seen this not be the case is when a tone ring became loose on the axle shaft. That is pretty unlikely, and you'd have other issues.
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
Long term bias... It occurs to me that while your steering wheel may be centered when going straight, your steering angle sensor could have been zero'd off center at some point. This could lead to a bias if the system is not correcting it as you drive. The systems I worked with would "learn" and correct a small error in steering angle as you drove, but it would not surprise me if the Advics (Or is it Teves?) system on your JK does not correct steering angle, but instead relies on a tech having to "reset" the zero to correlate to straight ahead steering. That would certainly cause a bias in stability performance if yours was zero'd with the steering wheel turned slightly left or right...

To diagnose this, you can you the procal in steering wheel centering mode. Basically it should show that with the steering wheel straight, you are at zero steering angle. (High beam and both turn signal indicators lit should correspond to "centered" steering wheel.) If you find that it is off, you will need a scan tool to reset the zero point, if that's even possible...
 

NatersXJ6

Explorer
Following up on the post above, some shops will recenter your steering angle during an alignment. I’m guessing, based on your statement that you are running wheel spacers, no shop is willing to touch your alignment. I’ve run into that as well.

I would suggest going in for a highly qualified shop alignment with your friends wheels and tires and no spacers.
 

ventura911

Adventurer
Thanks for the replies, folks. The steering is centered, the Procal is properly set for tire size (speedometer is within 1/2 mph of actual, according to GPS), the front electronic sway bar was replaced a couple of months back, and all worn parts of the rear Currie antirock sway bar have been replaced, as well.

Rebuild kits for the front and rear track bars are on order and I’m looking at wheels with the proper width and backspacing. I may have just been lucky running 12.5” tires on 7.5” rims with spacers all these years, but there’s no reason not to get things squared away now.

The wandering I was experiencing, an issue separate from the traction control gremlin, turned out to be simply a loose bolt on the rear antirock sway bar. I’m no longer like a drunk lurching down a hallway.

As I mentioned before, I don’t mind that I’m going through this, as I am ensuring everything worn is fixed or replaced.
 
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