JPFreek Review of 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee

[Ironwagon]

Terrible review because there was no critical discussion. The person who wrote the review barely had a complaint and that was that he wished next year that made 6 speed stick shift. There should have been comments/ questions of durability and field serviceability.

It's as if jeep paid that reviewer to shine the best possible light on the product.

Looks like the review was based on the experience, which didn't include long term drives or extreme testing. Simply a release of a new vehicle, with a lot of info to put out.

 

[ox4mag]

Given that I wrote the review I'll defend it given some of the remarks above. Also, sorry for the delinquent response but for some reason I'm just now getting emails about responses to the thread even though some of these are a few days old.

Quite honestly, I didn't give any critical discussion on the vehicle because given the time I had with the vehicle, I didn't feel compelled to provide any negative feedback. I stand by my review and the positive things said about the vehicle because I believe the new Grand Cherokee truly has some incredible capability and far surpasses its predecessors. And no, I wasn't "paid" for the review but if you'd like to send me a check...

Seriously though, regarding the Selec-Terrain et al, that was an error on my end that should have more adequately said a "first" for the Jeep brand. Again, from my experience with the vehicle, both the Selec-Terrain and Quadra-lift suspension are very functional and provide capability options that predecessors could not match. I will also say that after we finished our testing, a fellow reviewer and I did talk about a few items (including the 5-speed automatic) and we did agree a 6-speed might be more adequate but I left that from my review as I felt it would be more prudent to include reference to this and any other items when we do our long-term test later this fall.

Keep in mind that the biggest purpose in this article was to provide an overview of the vehicle and highlight key features from its launch. It was also to highlight some of its on-road/off-highway capability to the broad market segment with the intention of providing more detailed technical information and feedback in our long-term review.

 

[modelbuilder]

Without the time to provide any critical discussion I wish you hadn't said it is the most capable Grand ever. That is yet to be determined.

Given that I wrote the review I'll defend it given some of the remarks above. Also, sorry for the delinquent response but for some reason I'm just now getting emails about responses to the thread even though some of these are a few days old.

Quite honestly, I didn't give any critical discussion on the vehicle because given the time I had with the vehicle, I didn't feel compelled to provide any negative feedback. I stand by my review and the positive things said about the vehicle because I believe the new Grand Cherokee truly has some incredible capability and far surpasses its predecessors. And no, I wasn't "paid" for the review but if you'd like to send me a check...

Seriously though, regarding the Selec-Terrain et al, that was an error on my end that should have more adequately said a "first" for the Jeep brand. Again, from my experience with the vehicle, both the Selec-Terrain and Quadra-lift suspension are very functional and provide capability options that predecessors could not match. I will also say that after we finished our testing, a fellow reviewer and I did talk about a few items (including the 5-speed automatic) and we did agree a 6-speed might be more adequate but I left that from my review as I felt it would be more prudent to include reference to this and any other items when we do our long-term test later this fall.

Keep in mind that the biggest purpose in this article was to provide an overview of the vehicle and highlight key features from its launch. It was also to highlight some of its on-road/off-highway capability to the broad market segment with the intention of providing more detailed technical information and feedback in our long-term review.

 

[ox4mag]

Well, considering that I do own a 4x4 Limited 2007 GC with the 3.0L CRD diesel engine and have had it for two years now, I do believe the all-new GC is the most capable GC ever even after only one-full day of driving it.

If I didn't already own a GC or have experience with past GC vehicles then this statement would have been quite a stretch and a bit irresponsible. But I do own a GC and stand by that praise.

 

[modelbuilder]

Well, considering that I do own a 4x4 Limited 2007 GC with the 3.0L CRD diesel engine and have had it for two years now, I do believe the all-new GC is the most capable GC ever even after only one-full day of driving it.

If I didn't already own a GC or have experience with past GC vehicles then this statement would have been quite a stretch and a bit irresponsible. But I do own a GC and stand by that praise.

Well I guess we can agree to disagree then. LOL. I mean you did think your GC had only a rear ELSD.....:coffeedrink::victory:

I drive a 4.7L V8 05 Grand with QTII. I have also driven the Hemi 5.7L with the front and rear eatons and I have to say that I don't think I could tell if the WK2 was more capable after only a day, in fact I test drove the WK2 at my local Jeep Dealer Yesterday!

But seriously what trails have you tested the capability of your GC on that would allow you to say that the WK2 is more capable based on where you drove it?

Do you have QTII or QDII? If you have Quadra Drive II it should say it below the shifter by the 4-low lever.

Although the 07 CRD came with Quadra Trac II as a standard feature with AWD. The 07 CRD 2 wheel drive came with Quadra Trac I. I don't think the 07 CRD ever had Quadra Drive II. Which means that unless your CRD says Quadra Drive somewhere on the shifter assembly your grand does not have eatons at front or rear.

So in that case you are correct. The new WK2 is more capable than your CRD because you don't have the eatons front or rear. We still don't know how it will perform with the loss of the front eaton though and as of yet we have nothing to compare it to unless a Hemi owner with QDII tests it out.


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[ox4mag]

Well I guess we can agree to disagree then. LOL. I mean you did think your GC had only a rear ELSD.....:coffeedrink::victory:

I drive a 4.7L V8 05 Grand with QTII. I have also driven the Hemi 5.7L with the front and rear eatons and I have to say that I don't think I could tell if the WK2 was more capable after only a day, in fact I test drove the WK2 at my local Jeep Dealer Yesterday!

But seriously what trails have you tested the capability of your GC on that would allow you to say that the WK2 is more capable based on where you drove it?

Do you have QTII or QDII? If you have Quadra Drive II it should say it below the shifter by the 4-low lever. Although the 07 CRD came with Quadra Trac II as a standard feature.


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Ha! Actually that was a funny surprise for me though a good one regarding the ELSD.

I've got QD-II and have been all over the southwest including west Texas, New Mexico, parts of AZ, and I'm heading to CO in a couple weeks to spend 1.5 weeks there out near Divide as well as Buena Vista and then south near Lake Como. So I have given it good trail use and have modified it accordingly with a number of items from 4xGuard.com and others including:

Matrix bumper
Rock Rails
Front/Belly/Rear skid plates
TeraFlex 2" Budget Boost for increased approach/departure angle
AEV Pintler Wheels
******** Cepek Mud Country 32" Tires
BajaRack Mule Roof Rack
KC SlimLites 100W fog lamps (pair)

 

[modelbuilder]

Ha! Actually that was a funny surprise for me though a good one regarding the ELSD.

I've got QD-II and have been all over the southwest including west Texas, New Mexico, parts of AZ, and I'm heading to CO in a couple weeks to spend 1.5 weeks there out near Divide as well as Buena Vista and then south near Lake Como. So I have given it good trail use and have modified it accordingly with a number of items from 4xGuard.com and others including:

Matrix bumper
Rock Rails
Front/Belly/Rear skid plates
TeraFlex 2" Budget Boost for increased approach/departure angle
AEV Pintler Wheels
******** Cepek Mud Country 32" Tires
BajaRack Mule Roof Rack
KC SlimLites 100W fog lamps (pair)

Sweet! Then when you test out the WK2 on the same trails tell us how it performs or trails with similar challenges tell us how it performs with the loss of the front Eaton. I'm eager to hear!

Then tell us that it is the most capable yet!

 

[ox4mag]

I think the right questions to be asking about the new Grand are:

5. CRD availabilty? (I think no, correct?)

Yes, there will be a CRD though it will NOT be available state-side (international only). I inquired about this and while I didn't get a straight answer, I presume there aren't enough CRD sales here to justify it though I have to say that as the owner of a GC with the 3.0L CRD, I find this engine platform to be awesome and highly desirable here. Of course, I think it should be an option on the JK too but oh well.

 

[modelbuilder]

JPFreak1 lets take it outside...

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8224c1a1e3/anchorman-newscaster-fight-from-anchormanfan

 

[ox4mag]

JPFreak1 lets take it outside...

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8224c1a1e3/anchorman-newscaster-fight-from-anchormanfan

Now that is AWESOME! :victory:

 

[modelbuilder]

When I get some more funds I'm gonna subscribe to your magazine. You know your stuff. When are you going to test the WK2 further for a follow up?

 

[winkosmosis]

The ground clearance would be key to capability I think. the WK was pretty low, but the WL can inflate pretty high. You can tell just by looking at it how well it will do on the trail. No ELSD but it does have the braking based system right?

 

[ox4mag]

Ground clearance was the biggest complaint I had when I first test drove the 2008 GC (which I reviewed two years ago). As a matter of fact, that review was done at the Cooper Tire Test facility in Pearsal, Texas and the vehicle underwent a ton of really tough testing scenarios in mud, sand, gravel, rock, and wet roads. The ground clearance was so bad that I accidentally ripped the front bumper fascia off the vehicle when descending a 30 degree incline. Pretty sad.

This is what I love about the Quadra-Lift suspension in the 2011 version because it significantly increases the approach/departure angle and makes "crawling" much easier with higher ground clearance. And the bags used in the system are pretty freaking tough.

The new GC does have the ELSD with the QD-II setup.

Modelbuilder: Thanks for the support man.

 

[nwoods]

.... We still don't know how it will perform with the loss of the front eaton though and as of yet we have nothing to compare it to unless a Hemi owner with QDII tests it out.

I am considering suggesting the new Grand to my father-in-law as a replacement to his Navigator. Thus the reason for my interest and participation in this thread. Having said that, I have a lot of practical experience using a vehicle similar to the new Grand's suspension and traction control systems. Not too long ago I wrote up some comparisons and contrasts between lockers and traction control in a LR3 vs Tacoma discussion. Here is a reprint:

Originally Posted by Layonnn:
Can you please explain how a traction control system and a locker are not comparable at all when they both are after the same thing, traction?
One locks the axles the other uses a computer to gain traction, how can you not compare them?

Sure. Remember that I have a built-up Jeep Rubicon (lockers front and rear), so I have a good understanding of the differences between them.

Scenario one: Turtle rock. I'm sure you've seen a fully locked vehicle on an incline with poor traction. Could be dirt, solid rock, or combination. The truck is not moving, but all four wheels are spinning. The only thing happening is that the truck might be crabbing back and forth, but its not going anywhere. Looks a little like a turtle. Traction Control will figure out which wheel (even if its only one) has the most traction, and will pulse the system so that it takes maximum advantage of whats available, and the trucks gets a bite and moves forward. TC in this scenario is far superior with its millisecond adjustments than any manual driver.

Off Camber: A locked vehicle in a slippery off camber situation is going to go sideways. A TC vehicle will keep going forward smoothly, without any drama.

Descents: In slippery conditions, a locked vehicle might try to swap ends in a hurry. A vehicle with hill descent control (HDC is an aspect of traction control) will make it down fine. On the modern LR's, you can speed up or slow down (to 1mph) HDC by pressing the +/- buttons for the cruise control on the steering wheel.

Grass/Gravel/Snow/Ice: Pretty self explanatory, right?

A great many modern vehicles have some aspect of traction control systems these days, from Audi's, to my Nissan Armada. While the new JK and FJ have decent systems, most are very basic and are similar to a reverse ABS system. These systems have nothing in common with the modern Land Rover with Terrain Control.

Using the LR3/RRS platform for example, they have something like 5 software based sub-systems that are part of the traction & terrain control. In addition, there are two completely independent brake systems (4 external discs and a separate internal drum/hub based system), plus the engine, throttle, transmission, and differentials are all integrated into the system as a whole, and are all manipulated by the Terrain Control system to accomplish one sole purpose: Traction.

And it works.

the TC system doesn't just squeeze the brakes to reduce wheel spin like most vehicles. It can soften the throttle response to limit overdriving the friction potential of the surface you are driving on. It can modify the transmission gear selection and shift points. It can modify RPM's, increase or retard torque output, and it can transfer a measured and monitored amount of power to any or all 4 of the wheels with traction. Where traction is extremely limited, it can MAKE traction. This is an exaggeration of course, but if you watch one on the trail, you'd swear its true. The system works so fast, and so effectively, that its like magic.

In addition to forward (and reverse) traction, it works on lateral traction as well. I have been in situations with lockers where I can move forward AND sideways, but really don't want to go sideways, but I have no choice. With the TC system, it balances what the wheels are doing, and via SRS, DSC, and TC systems, limits sideways motion and maximizes forward movement. Its quite something to experience.

Unlike most vehicles, the TC system in the LR3 is not dumb in the sense that you can't manually control it. The LR3 is fully controllable. You can turn off various systems, such as DSC and HDC. You can increase or decrease the sensitivity of the system using Terrain Control.

For example, in Sand, you often want maximum power delivery and speed & momentum to go up a dune, but you want to start slow and soft so you don't dig holes and break through the crust. Similarly, a bit of wheelspin can be advantageous in sand, so having the TC system kick in, grabbing the brakes, or limiting your throttle, or lowing the RPM's would be all bad. Terrain Control allows you to disable or diminish the negative, and boost the positive factors you need.

Rock crawl is the opposite, you might need power, but you don't want speed. You can dial up a significantly more sensitive traction system, where it becomes effective at 1-2 mph (just one or two revolutions of the wheel, and it's figures out whats going on!), similarly, your precision driving in rocks is enhanced by modified throttle and engine response, and the gearing set to the lowest possible crawl ratios.

Lockers don't do any of that.

Maybe the new Grand's traction control will work this well (compared to the LR3), or maybe it won't, but it should be similar as they are from the same source.

 

[modelbuilder]

I am considering suggesting the new Grand to my father-in-law as a replacement to his Navigator. Thus the reason for my interest and participation in this thread. Having said that, I have a lot of practical experience using a vehicle similar to the new Grand's suspension and traction control systems. Not too long ago I wrote up some comparisons and contrasts between lockers and traction control in a LR3 vs Tacoma discussion. Here is a reprint:



Maybe the new Grand's traction control will work this well (compared to the LR3), or maybe it won't, but it should be similar as they are from the same source.

Thanks Nathan...put it into perspective.