Just another tire thread!!

[AbleGuy]

Use of studded tires would be a very hard habit to break for me if I still lived in the upper Rocky Mountain west, despite that kind of info. Our many years of successful personal experience running two sets of tires and rims (AT’s or M&S in the dry, warmer months, and walnut shell, siped, studs in the winter) would trump the magazine recco’s.

I see you’re in Montana, so I’m curious about your personal experiences. Driving in some of the most brutal winter weather while living up there close to the Canadian border, in intense swirling whiteouts and heavy blizzard conditions on ice covered roads, or my late night commutes in sub zero temps on dark, winding snow covered unplowed road, equipped with the above combo never, ever let us down or left us in the ditch.

And I literally still have some lingering nightmare memories of absolutely horrible roads driven on, ones that were closed for public safety almost immediately after we’d traversed them...but ones that we did manage to travel on safely to get back to our home or distant work destinations in those Arctic conditions. So, while I respect good scientific data and research, this is one area where I’d have to revert to learned, proven behavior that worked if/when we ever move back to any of those areas.

I guess I’m just too old of a dog to learn these new tricks...but it seems from reading that Outside bit that for the most safety conscious folks, having three sets of tires and rims might be warranted, AT or M&S for most of the year, studs for the coldest, iciest heart of winter, and the “soft tread “ snow tires for early and late winter. Seems like an unreasonable burden though.

 

[Grassland]

My truck sees very little bare concrete in winter as I don't drive it much and my city is a ******** hole that doesn't plow side streets more than once a year.
Every intersection on side roads is a nice reflective mirror of polished ice from all the all season tires spinning away. A good chunk of main intersections as well depending on the forecast. (Ie more snow coming in 12 hours, they aren't plowing)

The article references multiple times the same 1995 test that keeps referring to a "modern winter tire". Does this mean the studded winter tire used in the test was not a "modern winter tire" and was just some random old hard tire with studs?
Like we aren't talking about a rock hard MT tire with some studs tapped into it here, we are talking about a soft, pliable, sipes, winter tire. Many of which are available with or without studs, even in the same pattern.

 

[Buddha.]

Read the article. It outlines research done by several state governments that show studded tires only have benefit on clear ice between 32 and 0 degrees F and increase stopping distances on dry roads.

I'd rather go with documented science than anecdotal evidence.

“Studs work best when it’s cold and icy...”
No kidding. If I had dry roads in the winter I wouldn’t consider snow tires.

 

[Climber Rob]

Read the article. It outlines research done by several state governments that show studded tires only have benefit on clear ice between 32 and 0 degrees F and increase stopping distances on dry roads.

I'd rather go with documented science than anecdotal evidence.

I did read the article. Did you? Did you read my post? I have no interest in choking down the "documented science" that the government tries, desperately, to shove down people's throats as doctrine. A brand new set of top-tier studless winter tires in many conditions? Sure. A partially-worn set of studdless winter tires? Forget it. Just like I said above: Studded tires have a decisive advantage in some conditions. If you're driving on dry roads, who cares? Why are you worried about winter tires at all? I most definitely do not recommend running studded tires if you are driving on dry roads in winter. Go ahead with your "documented science," but don't act like other people are beneath you if they don't follow you off the cliff, or act like you have any idea what you're talking about because you linked to and quoted an article.

 

[Grassland]

I'd like to see what the control tires are in tests. As an example Tire rack tests winter tires and runs a tire multiple times on a controlled course, and also switching back to the control tire in between.
Most manufacturers also list things like "30% shorter stopping distance in snow!**" "** Compared to our leading all season tires" which isn't the most helpful as it doesn't tell you many variables and it's not the simplest thing to go look into.

My 3 peak all terrains have been good in off road snow and deep snow on roads. So I'm not super worried if we get an early or late snowfall and I have them on. I'm looking for a winter tire specifically good for deep snow, hard pack, and ice, at temperatures -10 to -35 °C

And in a narrow 33" size

 

[Alloy]

'm looking for a winter tire specifically good for deep snow, hard pack, and ice, at temperatures -10 to -35 °C

And in a narrow 33" size

I haven't been able to find a good snow/ice tire. Tread pattern for ice used more rubber to increase the contact. Once the snow is over 4" the ice tires plug up. Was happy with the KO2. I killed them after 2 years of towing a trailer so I may try the Wildpeak (more $$ here) AT3 that have more tread depth.

I also carry lightweight chains that area east to put on.

Avoid treads that are open side to side like the Michelins LTX AT. These don't have much lateral grip and will slide sideways on sloped roads.

 

[1000arms]

... I'm looking for a winter tire specifically good for deep snow, hard pack, and ice, at temperatures -10 to -35 °C

And in a narrow 33" size

Although a bit shorter than what you asked for (31.6)", and only available in 16" rims, you might look at the 235/85R16. They can be studded. Scroll down in the link:

Shop Commercial TA Traction Tires for Winter | BFGoodrich Tires

Experience the BFGoodrich Commercial TA Traction tires for Winter. A tire with an aggressive tread to go wherever your route requires. Buy Commercial TA Traction tires today.

www.bfgoodrichtires.com

For another look at the tread, see:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Commercial+T%2FA+Traction

 

[4000lbsOfGoat]

I see you’re in Montana, so I’m curious about your personal experiences.

I have never in my life used studded tires and so far I haven't died or become hopelessly stuck in a ditch. I actually found the article mentioned when I was trying to figure out why so many people around here do use studded tires. I could just never see how a tiny little bit of metal in the tread could actually make any difference. Turns out that the research says it doesn't help when compared to modern tire compounds. I think it's just something that *used to* make a difference back when tire compounds were less advanced. Technology has moved on.

Driving in some of the most brutal winter weather while living up there close to the Canadian border, in intense swirling whiteouts and heavy blizzard conditions on ice covered roads, or my late night commutes in sub zero temps on dark, winding snow covered unplowed road, equipped with the above combo never, ever let us down or left us in the ditch.

The trouble with that statement is that you have no control reference. You have never driven the same vehicle in the same conditions *without* studded tires so you really don't know how non-studded tires would have handled the situation. The science says that they only help on clear ice. They do not offer any benefit on snow or snow-covered ice.

 

[Regcabguy]

I've always wondered why gas/diesel is so expensive in Canada when's it's their fuel. To my knowledge their self-sufficient.

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

Avoid treads that are open side to side like the Michelins LTX AT. These don't have much lateral grip and will slide sideways on sloped roads.

Second that. My Dodge came with those OEM...horrible in snow, unless you like sliding all over the place. Pretty sure the high durometer had something to with it also. But I did get almost 70k miles out of them so for So Cal freeways not too bad.

 

[sargeek]

It all depends on where you live. I think it is pretty funny here in the Denver Metro Area all the people who put studded tires on their cars for the 10-15 days per year that we have snow-packed roads. Yes, studded tires help when the roads are icy or snow-packed. However, studded tires, increase stopping distances on dry and wet roads when compared to studless tires. Is it worth giving up the dry and wet weather traction for 15 days of snow-packed roads?

If I lived farther north where the roads are ice/snow packed all year - I would consider a dedicated snow tire: so far my BFG AT, Goodyear Duratracks, and Goodyear Weather Ready Tires, and Kelly Edge AT Tires seems to get all the 4x4 vehicles I own through anything Colorado can throw at me. If it gets bad enough some of the vehicles have chains.

I also survived the worst driving conditions I had be with AT Tires in Main. 3/4" of water on 2" of ice- the nice place had to rain after a nice bout of below zero weather. Again, if I lived further north - I would strongly consider dedicated snow tires.