Knife Experts - Sharpening

[just eric]

I need help with sharpening. I try but never seem to get it right and I'm tired of damaging nice knives. My current project is an Enzo Birk folder with S30V and a scandi grind. My goal is to have a shaving sharp, mirror polished blade. I have tried using a sharpening kit I picked up here. I used the wet/dry paper beginning with 600 grit and progressing through 1000 and 2000 grit. I then tried to strop the blade with black and green bark river compound. I kept the knife perpendicular to the paper and strop and used light pressure on one side then the other, then repeat. Can't say how many passes I made but I spent well over an hour last night and the blade seemed to get sharp and then dull and then sharp and then... The correct angle with a scandi grind is easy to find even for me but I just can't seem to get the damn thing sharp.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[tacoma_AL]

I'm not and expert don't claim to be, just a hobbyist. However I have a set of Japanese water stones that range 400 - 10k which is a slightly different rating than american grit rating. Anyways, I have found stones to be a better way to get an extremely sharp edge and mirror finish. I used to to only pull them out for my higher quality knives and used a two sided fine/coarse for my daily work horses, but find they do a much better job and the edge keeps longer with the stones. I honestly know nothing when it comes to using a strop strap, so I can't help you there. Though when I get done polishing my good knives on the 10k I can/could shave with them no problem. Once again I don't claim to be an expert, really just throwing another idea out there for you with the stones, plus I never had good luck with the sandpaper style method which is what got me into sharpening with stones. Sorry for the rambling.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

I have a full set of water stones and they are superb. However, the best knife sharpening kit I've used is the Edge Pro, because of the absolute repeatability of getting a precise angle on your blade. It will make your knives last ten times longer no matter how good you are at manually holding an angle on a standard stone, because the amount of steel removed is microscopic once you've dialed it in.

I suspect you might not be successfully getting rid of the burr, which is critical to the final edge. Another useful tool is some sort of magnifier that will allow you to see the edge up close. Yes, I'm aware that knife users have been sharpening blades without such things for eons, but modern, expensive, high-Rc blades benefit from the help. I use a pocket scope that instantly allows me to see issues with the edge.

Scandi grinds are easy to sharpen in that the angle is simple to maintain, but they take longer to sharpen at first because you're removing a lot more steel. You might consider using a small secondary bevel since you're having such difficulty. Ray Mears has an excellent video on Youtube about sharpening a Scandi blade with water stones, but keep in mind he's working on a blade that's already properly set up.

An S30V blade should stay sharp a long time once it's finished, but it is a hard steel and takes more work at first.

P.S. Nice knife!

 

[tarditi]

I use a spyderco sharpmaker, but have heard of a lot of guys on the knife forums use a mousepad and fine grit wet/dry sandpaper to get a good scandi grind

 

[brushogger]

I have used a Lansky sharpening system for over 25 years. It's very easy to maintain the blade angle. Afterwards, I strop it on an old leather belt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FreeRangeFJ]

I second the Edge Pro. It will make sharpening with precision very easy. The down side is they run about $500. The Spyderco Sharpmaker is an excellent tool as well for a quick tune up of a properly maintained edge, but I would hate to use it to sharpen a Scandi.

 

[just eric]

I second the Edge Pro. It will make sharpening with precision very easy. The down side is they run about $500. The Spyderco Sharpmaker is an excellent tool as well for a quick tune up of a properly maintained edge, but I would hate to use it to sharpen a Scandi.

Do you feel that the Edge Pro would work better (well enough?) on a scandi?

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

You can get the Edge Pro Apex (all you need) for about $230. It works just fine on a Scandi grind.

 

[jrose609]

I love my Edge Pro. Works great for my work knife, my hunting knives, and our kitchen knives.

I picked mine up from Expedition Exchange. The guys at EE did a nice write up with good info.

 

[FreeRangeFJ]

Do you feel that the Edge Pro would work better (well enough?) on a scandi?

I think the Edge Pro would work better if the edge was in very poor condition as it would allow you to redefine the bevel to a known angle, with precision. The Scandi grind is supposedly the easiest to sharpen in the field because there is only one angle to deal with and it is very easy to both identify and hold with relative precision on a sharpening stone. Some people put a micro bevel on the cutting edge, which pretty much negates the purpose of that grind to begin with by putting an additional bevel on the blade. The problem with using the Lanskey or Sharpmaker on a scandi grind is there is just too much metal to be removed from the grind if the blade has not been properly maintained.

 

[R.G.]

Paper bad, stone good. I use a basic wet stone, then polish the edge with a hard white Arkansas stone. The only trick is to keep the edge flat, and not re grind the bevel angle. You can learn the angle by either laying the blade on the stone dry, and looking, or use a marker on just the bevel, and see what part of the metal you are removing till you find the sweet spot. When stoning the edges go slow, and try to cut the full blade edge in one pass.

Once you have taken some time with the wet stone you run it on the white stone till the bevel has a shine to it. All the white stone does is polish the edge sharp. Once its finished you can usually just polish the blade back up with the white stone to keep it good. Also if the edge needs a touch up you can do this on the bottom of a coffee cup. The rough ceramic rim on the bottom is great for fixing up a kitchen knife when the stick goes missing.

 

[just eric]

I've been trying to sharpen my scandi grind (S30V) on a King 1200 waterstone. How long should it take to get to the point where I need to move on to a higher grit, strop, or other polishing compound? I'm quickly losing faith in my abilities and remembering why I always bought Benchmade.

 

[workerdrone]

1200 is pretty fine already, it should feel sharp before you are using that one -

I've always sharpened freehand and by the time I'm old and all grey I should maybe be pretty good at it But even with the coarse and medium stones I'm feeling a great edge and could stop and use it then. The 1000's grits and the strop or paper are just polishing for the last 1% and longevity of the edge.

Actually in the kitchen I find stopping at medium leaves a little tooth that works great on stuff like tomatoes and peppers - bites right into the waxy slippery stuff

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Eric,

The advantage of the Scandi grind is that it is easy to sharpen by hand, since the broad bevel indexes consistently. The disadvantage is that you are then working on a lot of steel, so bringing back a truly dull (rather than merely folded-over) edge takes a lot more work—and more so with a steel such as S30V. If you always sharpen at home you might consider a small secondary bevel, which will make the task go much faster.

I agree with Workerdrone that the edge should already feel sharp before you move to the 1200 stone.

 

[AndrewP]

I completely agree with Jonathan Hanson. I don't want to dedicate my life to sharpening knives, I just want knives that are sharp. Especially kitchen knives.

Let me third or forth the Edge Pro. It is a great knife sharpener with few weaknesses. Sure it's a little more money, but it's 5X better than anything else out there. It's made by a real guy in Chico California, who often personally answers the phone if you call the company. There is even after market support for the Edge Pro and Chinese imitators of the Edge Pro. That's how good it is for us "not serious knife sharpeners". Highly recommended.

Regarding Scandi Grinds...just my opinion...they are just OK. Definitely not the easiest to sharpen, just the easiest to sharpen with minimal equipment. They usually end up fairly thick behind the edge and so make a good outdoor knife and poor kitchen knife. They are much better and easier to maintain with a small micro bevel on the edge, but to do that, you need a sharpener like an Edge Pro, or infinite patience and a very steady hand on the stones. With the Edge Pro it's a 5 minute job.

And heck yes, 1200 should feel (and be) super sharp before any stropping. In fact, I don't strop. Some times I show off by stropping on a piece of newsprint, but it is totally unnecessary.

Learning knife sharpening on lesser steels is smart. For Scandi practice sharpening, buy yourself a $12 Mora Companion. It's made of great 1095 carbon steel, it's heat treated perfectly, it has a Scandi edge and the best part...it costs $12. Pocket change for a great knife. It will be easy to sharpen and good practice and will be more forgiving than S30V. I have one in each glove box.

Regarding S30V..I have had very good luck with this in folding outdoor knives. It holds an edge extremely well, and is not that hard to sharpen. It is not quite as "stainless" as some stainless steels, but it does make for a superior knife.