Land Cruiser 60 Series vs Newer Tacoma

[DaveInDenver]

Taco's are great trucks and yeah, they do well off-road, but "wheels better then a 60" is ALL dependent on the terrain and the trail you're talking about. Without an SAS the Tacoma will hit a point on more extreme trails where it simply can't easily follow even a mildly built 60-series Cruiser. You also have to spend more money on the Taco to get it there cause 2 Detroits, maybe new gears, bigger tires and some OME leaves and the 60-series is going to be a pretty formidable trail rig compared to the average Tacoma. Going fast in the desert, sure, running the Rubicon... not really.

The IFS is somewhat limiting but I don't think anyone can say in stock form a FJ60 is going to out 'wheel a TRD Taco. That just ain't gonna happen. The factory leafs and open diffs in the FJ60 are reliable but they will run out of travel and traction way quick. My FJ40 was a tank but the weight balance, wheelbase and lack of overhangs helps tremendously. All Cruisers benefit from aftermarket suspension regardless. Not to mention the steering and brakes to some extent on the FJ60 are marginal and much better on newer vehicles. So you start looking at mini truck power steering and shackle reversals & SOA conversions...

Of course with a OME suspension, Air Locker and some armor the FJ60 will be quite formidable, but so would OME on a Taco. And the truth is IFS is more limiting to web 'wheelers than people who actual go places. Heck, I got my pile of crap through the Rubicon on 33x10.50 BFG MT and IFS. Yup, you get a bit tippy, use your armor, but it works. In the extreme case, hard core rock crawlers who do it every weekend, no question. But for exploring and over landing the benefits of a solid front axle I think are less important overall. With a front locker an IFS Taco is extremely capable, too.

Go to Cruise Moab and you'll see plenty of 4Runners, Tacos and FJ Cruisers doing just fine with IFS. And honestly, if I had to take a bland IFS Taco but in return got a 1GR-FE, 6 speed stick, e-locker, CD player that didn't skip and a quiet, comfortable ride at 75MPH that IMHO is a very fair trade off. It comes down to use and what you want from your truck. I absolutely dig on the soul and uniqueness of Cruisers and 1st gen Hiluxes, but that character doesn't outweigh the utility of something that will for 10 or 15 years and 200,000 miles just go when you turn the key.

 

[Clutch]

Those are all more then a "2.5" coil-over lift"... Have a read on Petersens "Red Sled" and how much GM's IFS front suspension can't handle when pushed with a load on and bigger tires... I'm not saying that it can't work, but it's not quite as simple as you're leading him to believe.

Taco's are great trucks and yeah, they do well off-road, but "wheels better then a 60" is ALL dependent on the terrain and the trail you're talking about. Without an SAS the Tacoma will hit a point on more extreme trails where it simply can't easily follow even a mildly built 60-series Cruiser. You also have to spend more money on the Taco to get it there cause 2 Detroits, maybe new gears, bigger tires and some OME leaves and the 60-series is going to be a pretty formidable trail rig compared to the average Tacoma. Going fast in the desert, sure, running the Rubicon... not really.

Just giving out the possibilities.

The top two pictures were more about the bumper options than anything. The the 3rd one from the top is a 2.5" lift.

The OP has a great truck already, think he wants something different, because he is bored. I get that, I get bored with my stuff and go start looking at other options. I swear, some of you guys think just because it isn't a Toyota you can't wheel it. For overland stuff...2.5-3" lift and bumper mod...is all you need. Doing more extreme...go long travel...even gnarlier SAS it. No need to buy a Tacoma or a 60, the Silverado is fine, it really is. Honestly I think it will do the overland job better than the Toyotas. That is coming from long time Toyota fan-boi.

My buddy's 60 has OME suspension it simply can't hang with my Camburg equipped Tacoma. Remember that is from his mouth not mine. Fast or slow terrain, we have wheeled a bunch together, he has told me he is jealous, and wants a Tacoma now. He also wrenches on the 60 waaaay more than I do on mine. We always have to do something to it on the trail, that thing breaks down a lot...and he is super OCD about maintenance, and one of the nicer 60's you'll come across.

"2 Detroits, maybe new gears, bigger tires and some OME leaves and the 60-series is going to be a pretty formidable trail rig compared to the average Tacoma."

Why compare a modded 60 to an average Tacoma?

 

[Clutch]

CD player that didn't skip....

CD player!? what is that!!?? People still use those!?

 

[4Rescue]

...my Camburg equipped Tacoma.

THAT makes a bit of a difference...

 

[Clutch]

THAT makes a bit of a difference...

His 60 isn't stock, he does have Old Man Emu like I said. Thought you said if a 60 had OME and lockers, it would be a formidable trail rig against an average Tacoma? His suspension is upgraded, so is mine...which is a pretty basic upgrade imo. Mine only cost $500 more...performs a hell of a lot better though. Coil-overs are cake to install too. Have enough practice now... I can install coil-overs faster than leaf springs, plus you can adjust them easier as well.

To get the 60 to perform close to the Taco you would have to link/coil-over it. Cost wise it would real close...though cost vs. cost you could long travel the Taco, which rides much better than a solid axle.

 

[toylandcruiser]

The IFS is somewhat limiting but I don't think anyone can say in stock form a FJ60 is going to out 'wheel a TRD Taco. That just ain't gonna happen. The factory leafs and open diffs in the FJ60 are reliable but they will run out of travel and traction way quick. My FJ40 was a tank but the weight balance, wheelbase and lack of overhangs helps tremendously. All Cruisers benefit from aftermarket suspension regardless. Not to mention the steering and brakes to some extent on the FJ60 are marginal and much better on newer vehicles. So you start looking at mini truck power steering and shackle reversals & SOA conversions...

Of course with a OME suspension, Air Locker and some armor the FJ60 will be quite formidable, but so would OME on a Taco. And the truth is IFS is more limiting to web 'wheelers than people who actual go places. Heck, I got my pile of crap through the Rubicon on 33x10.50 BFG MT and IFS. Yup, you get a bit tippy, use your armor, but it works. In the extreme case, hard core rock crawlers who do it every weekend, no question. But for exploring and over landing the benefits of a solid front axle I think are less important overall. With a front locker an IFS Taco is extremely capable, too.

Go to Cruise Moab and you'll see plenty of 4Runners, Tacos and FJ Cruisers doing just fine with IFS. And honestly, if I had to take a bland IFS Taco but in return got a 1GR-FE, 6 speed stick, e-locker, CD player that didn't skip and a quiet, comfortable ride at 75MPH that IMHO is a very fair trade off. It comes down to use and what you want from your truck. I absolutely dig on the soul and uniqueness of Cruisers and 1st gen Hiluxes, but that character doesn't outweigh the utility of something that will for 10 or 15 years and 200,000 miles just go when you turn the key.

X2. Lockers will make anything good off road.


"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

 

[4Rescue]

To the OP: Like I said before, my suggestion at this point is go exploring in your Chevy and take your time deciding/doing your homework... doesn't sound like you're without a vehicle to get you out there and you never know when a sudden "too good to pass up" deal will fall in your lap and make up your mind for you aye.

The IFS is somewhat limiting but I don't think anyone can say in stock form a FJ60 is going to out 'wheel a TRD Taco. That just ain't gonna happen. The factory leafs and open diffs in the FJ60 are reliable but they will run out of travel and traction way quick. My FJ40 was a tank but the weight balance, wheelbase and lack of overhangs helps tremendously. All Cruisers benefit from aftermarket suspension regardless. Not to mention the steering and brakes to some extent on the FJ60 are marginal and much better on newer vehicles. So you start looking at mini truck power steering and shackle reversals & SOA conversions...

Of course with a OME suspension, Air Locker and some armor the FJ60 will be quite formidable, but so would OME on a Taco. And the truth is IFS is more limiting to web 'wheelers than people who actual go places. Heck, I got my pile of crap through the Rubicon on 33x10.50 BFG MT and IFS. Yup, you get a bit tippy, use your armor, but it works. In the extreme case, hard core rock crawlers who do it every weekend, no question. But for exploring and over landing the benefits of a solid front axle I think are less important overall. With a front locker an IFS Taco is extremely capable, too.

Go to Cruise Moab and you'll see plenty of 4Runners, Tacos and FJ Cruisers doing just fine with IFS. And honestly, if I had to take a bland IFS Taco but in return got a 1GR-FE, 6 speed stick, e-locker, CD player that didn't skip and a quiet, comfortable ride at 75MPH that IMHO is a very fair trade off. It comes down to use and what you want from your truck. I absolutely dig on the soul and uniqueness of Cruisers and 1st gen Hiluxes, but that character doesn't outweigh the utility of something that will for 10 or 15 years and 200,000 miles just go when you turn the key.

Different strokes for different folks aye Dave... I maintain that the two choices he listed are still pretty "Apples to Oranges" (although still an interesting think/discussion) with one being a modern, "drive off the lot into the dirt" truck with a warranty and nearer-to car like handling/safety-features/comforts that you maybe add some new tires to at first and the other being a "wait to find a good one then spend months/years building it" type deal with more of a simplistic and HD build to it... either way, to me, this isn't like comparing a Taco to a Frontier aye.

If I "had to" buy new off the lot tomorrow, I'd buy a new Tacoma or 4Runner NQA, but in reality, if given say 40K (the minimum I think it'd take to buy a new Tacoma and build it out based on a $30K+ new stock truck) to buy/build what I want, I don't think, for me that the modern Tacoma would make the short-list. But again, that's all down to personal preferences/ignorance's/styles/biases. But yeah, for the average American "Overlander" (read: gear head car camper), the Tacoma is the bench-mark and will suit a wide variety users perfectly esp. if camping and gear hauling are more important then hard-core rock-crawling. You could swap on an OME suspension and some new tires, load up and go from Ak down to Tierra Del Fuego with little if any issue (with the truck). You can also go LT or SAS the Taco in which case the two are suddenly a lot more comparable in their capability on the hard stuff aye.

And maybe I missed it in the OP, but I've still not heard any addressing of the "Wife and Kids factor" (if that exists for him). It's not unheard of but usually it's WAY easier to get a supportive nod of approval when you pull up in a modern Taco and tell your wife you and the kids will be traveling around the country in it then it is to drive up in (or have towed home) an old 60-series Cruiser and try to get the wife to imagine the possibilities while it sits in the driveway aye

Cheers

Dave

 

[4Rescue]

His 60 isn't stock, he does have Old Man Emu like I said. Thought you said if a 60 had OME and lockers, it would be a formidable trail rig against an average Tacoma? His suspension is upgraded, so is mine...which is a pretty basic upgrade imo. Mine only cost $500 more...performs a hell of a lot better though. Coil-overs are cake to install too. Have enough practice now... I can install coil-overs faster than leaf springs, plus you can adjust them easier as well.

To get the 60 to perform close to the Taco you would have to link/coil-over it. Cost wise it would real close...though cost vs. cost you could long travel the Taco, which rides much better than a solid axle.

I think we're getting twisted up here and it's likely my fault...

When I said "...A 60 with Detroits and OME suspension" (or whatever) I'm referring to 2 fairly cheap diffs that can be swapped in your garage and two sets of leaf-springs that require no modification to mount up (although to further to clarify when you say "coil-over installs" you're referring to stock replacement style coil-overs yeah, not welding in shock hoops and going to a vastly longer travel shock and A-arm sus. correct???) -vs- a Stock truck like a TRD Taco which HAS an E-locker out back and supposedly a "off-road ready" suspension. I was simply trying to level the off-road capability comparison field on two trucks that again are kinda apples to oranges when comparing them stock -vs- Stock. Although I'd still argue that outside of fast open terrain, a quad-cab long bed Taco is nowhere near as nimble in tight trails as even a 60 is. I deal with this all the time wheeling with current gen Taco's here in the NW and the break-over and w/b are often the limiting factor before the IFS ever is.

I wasn't trying to say that your Taco sucks and by virtue of simply being a LC60 your buddies truck was "better". Again it all depends on what you're doing with the truck.

As for the quoted statement about your truck specifically, I was simply referring to the fact that when I read what your friend said about the two trucks I didn't understand that your truck had a Camburg suspension on it and maybe I'm still not fully getting it... Are we talking LT A-Arms and the whole deal or again simple replacement coil-overs in conjunction with stock A-Arms???

Cheers

Dave

 

[DaveInDenver]

If I "had to" buy new off the lot tomorrow,

This is the crux of the question at hand, isn't it? The question was about replacing a Chevy pickup with something straight away.

I'd buy a new Tacoma or 4Runner NQA, but in reality, if given say 40K (the minimum I think it'd take to buy a new Tacoma and build it out based on a $30K+ new stock truck) to buy/build what I want, I don't think, for me that the modern Tacoma would make the short-list. But again, that's all down to personal preferences/ignorance's/styles/biases. But yeah, for the average American "Overlander" (read: gear head car camper), the Tacoma is the bench-mark and will suit a wide variety users perfectly esp. if camping and gear hauling are more important then hard-core rock-crawling. You could swap on an OME suspension and some new tires, load up and go from Ak down to Tierra Del Fuego with little if any issue (with the truck). You can also go LT or SAS the Taco in which case the two are suddenly a lot more comparable in their capability on the hard stuff aye.

This answers it. You need to expect to spend a lot of money on an already frame-up restored FJ60 or be ready to do something similar out of the box for a daily driver. Even if you do get a nice one the ongoing upkeep is a bit of a pain. Getting a replacement door seal or a failed VSV or tune up parts or replacement window glass or coolant hoses is a minor affair. I found it more work than it's worth in general and quite stressing if it's your only vehicle. They need to be seen as the collector's vehicles that they are. Doesn't mean one can't be capable and reliable, but that will take considerable money and time invested.

You know I agree with you that in a perfect world we'd be able to get fair priced, crank windowed, white diesel Hiluxes but the question isn't pie-in-the-sky or just about which is cool, the OP is new to Toyota and needs (I think) to understand what he's getting into with an old Cruiser. They take some TLC to keep on the road and heaven forbid if you live in a place with safety and/or emissions test. Seeing a nice FJ60 on ExPo doesn't do justice to what the owner did to get it to that point. It's a labor of love.

If you value your personal time then it will be more expensive than a modern vehicle is my assertion. Some folks deeply enjoy the time in the garage, it's their hobby fixing up old cars. That's great for them, we've all had our vices to blow off steam. But when it's out of necessity it sucks the fun out of it real quick.

 

[Clutch]

I think we're getting twisted up here and it's likely my fault...

Not twisted up on my end (maybe lost in intergooglemachine translation. )

When I said "...A 60 with Detroits and OME suspension" (or whatever) I'm referring to 2 fairly cheap diffs that can be swapped in your garage and two sets of leaf-springs that require no modification to mount up (although to further to clarify when you say "coil-over installs" you're referring to stock replacement style coil-overs yeah, not welding in shock hoops and going to a vastly longer travel shock and A-arm sus. correct???) -vs- a Stock truck like a TRD Taco which HAS an E-locker out back and supposedly a "off-road ready" suspension. I was simply trying to level the off-road capability comparison field on two trucks that again are kinda apples to oranges when comparing them stock -vs- Stock. Although I'd still argue that outside of fast open terrain, a quad-cab long bed Taco is nowhere near as nimble in tight trails as even a 60 is. I deal with this all the time wheeling with current gen Taco's here in the NW and the break-over and w/b are often the limiting factor before the IFS ever is.

I wasn't trying to say that your Taco sucks and by virtue of simply being a LC60 your buddies truck was "better". Again it all depends on what you're doing with the truck.

As for the quoted statement about your truck specifically, I was simply referring to the fact that when I read what your friend said about the two trucks I didn't understand that your truck had a Camburg suspension on it and maybe I'm still not fully getting it... Are we talking LT A-Arms and the whole deal or again simple replacement coil-overs in conjunction with stock A-Arms???

Cheers

Dave

For sure definitely apples to oranges.

What I am referring to is...we basically did the standard suspension upgrades, what most owners of each platform does. I just have coil-overs swapped in, and OME out back. The Taco performs better with basically the same amount of effort thrown at it. The OME rear on mine, definitely holds it back, it can't keep up with the front....linking/coil-overs would cure that. Mine is an extra cab...so our break-over angles are similar. It also gets better fuel economy, and has more power. Not because I own a Tacoma...but I do feel the Taco is a more rounded vehicle than the 60 (I almost sold the Taco and bought a 60, decided against it after driving and being around my buddy's)...and do think the Silverado is even more rounded than both of those. Would be down grading if you go with one of the Toyotas.

You know I agree with you that in a perfect world we'd be able to get fair priced, crank windowed, white diesel Hiluxes

The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Tradesman model is real close...they missed the mark a tad with no manual trans. Believe you can still get manual windows, doorlocks, and mirrors, regular cab for $31K and some change...not bad consider what vehicles are costing these days.

This is the crux of the question at hand, isn't it? The question was about replacing a Chevy pickup with something straight away.

.

To me the 60 is a hobby vehicle, you'll always be tinkering with it.

The Tacoma and the Silverado are similar enough to me at least...it would be going backwards to trade the Chevy for the Toyota, as the Chevy has more power, roughly the same fuel economy...with more capacity, which will haul gear, and perhaps a camper such as a Flippac or Four Wheel Camper much better than the Tacoma. My good dirt bike riding buddy has a Silverado extra cab...tell ya, I am jealous of it, just so much more of a truck. He can take it darn near everywhere my Tacoma goes, and since my Tacoma will go the same places as OME equipped somewhat fussy 60, well...

Something like this truck below or a 2nd gen Tacoma...hate to say it, I would pick the GM.

 

[AndrewP]

I clearly don't know my Chevy pick ups but the ones pictured look like desert racers, not real offroaders. I have to say I have never seen a modern Chevy off road. Not to say they arn't good, but they are not common. In the end, you will drive what your friends drive. So if you 4-wheel a Chevy, you'll hang out with Chevy guys. If you like Cruisers, you'll hang out with the Cruiser guys.

DaveInDenver-I agree with most of what you say except for the expense part. A nice FJ60/62/80 can be had for pocket change. Build ups are what you make them, but a $2500 FJ62 can be built into a Rubicon capable off-roader for another $5000. Easy. To make a Tacoma capable of the Rubicon, takes not only the $30k truck, but also a $10K build.

To me, it makes no sense to off road a new/expensive truck. Things happen, dents happen, major breakage happens.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I clearly don't know my Chevy pick ups but the ones pictured look like desert racers, not real offroaders. I have to say I have never seen a modern Chevy off road. Not to say they arn't good, but they are not common. In the end, you will drive what your friends drive. So if you 4-wheel a Chevy, you'll hang out with Chevy guys. If you like Cruisers, you'll hang out with the Cruiser guys.

DaveInDenver-I agree with most of what you say except for the expense part. A nice FJ60/62/80 can be had for pocket change. Build ups are what you make them, but a $2500 FJ62 can be built into a Rubicon capable off-roader for another $5000. Easy. To make a Tacoma capable of the Rubicon, takes not only the $30k truck, but also a $10K build.

To me, it make no sense to off road a new/expensive truck. Things happen, dents happen, major breakage happens.

Desert racing is certainly real off-roading.


"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

 

[AndrewP]

Desert racing is certainly real off-roading.

I disagree. You would not take a desert racer out into Death Valley or Utah or anywhere else real people use real 4 wheel drives to see the country. Desert racers are highly specialized race trucks built to do one thing-go fast over desert terrain. They are great for racing but for normal use they are basically useless. Kind of like daily driving a F1 car. Real off roading as practiced here is usually about going slow and seeing what's out there, taking pictures, and enjoying the moment. Normal people don't need or want to go 75mph over the desert and then miss the awesome stuff that's actually there.

Back to the original poster-take what you have and go on a trip. If it doesn't meet your needs, get something else. A Land Cruiser wagon is a versatile platform that will take you almost anywhere you'd care to go. So will a Taco and maybe even the Chevy you already own. But don't stress on the truck or the gear or anything else. Just go.

 

[4Rescue]

This is the crux of the question at hand, isn't it? The question was about replacing a Chevy pickup with something straight away.

This answers it. You need to expect to spend a lot of money on an already frame-up restored FJ60 or be ready to do something similar out of the box for a daily driver. Even if you do get a nice one the ongoing upkeep is a bit of a pain. Getting a replacement door seal or a failed VSV or tune up parts or replacement window glass or coolant hoses is a minor affair. I found it more work than it's worth in general and quite stressing if it's your only vehicle. They need to be seen as the collector's vehicles that they are. Doesn't mean one can't be capable and reliable, but that will take considerable money and time invested.

You know I agree with you that in a perfect world we'd be able to get fair priced, crank windowed, white diesel Hiluxes but the question isn't pie-in-the-sky or just about which is cool, the OP is new to Toyota and needs (I think) to understand what he's getting into with an old Cruiser. They take some TLC to keep on the road and heaven forbid if you live in a place with safety and/or emissions test. Seeing a nice FJ60 on ExPo doesn't do justice to what the owner did to get it to that point. It's a labor of love.

If you value your personal time then it will be more expensive than a modern vehicle is my assertion. Some folks deeply enjoy the time in the garage, it's their hobby fixing up old cars. That's great for them, we've all had our vices to blow off steam. But when it's out of necessity it sucks the fun out of it real quick.

I was following you right up until the point you said "crank windowed, white diesel Hiluxes" then my brain went all squidgy and I lost all sense of concentration

I wholeheartedly agree with you though mate, well said. I guess I kinda missed one of the key criteria and, as usual was half-arguing for no reason aye.

I disagree. You would not take a desert racer out into Death Valley or Utah or anywhere else real people use real 4 wheel drives to see the country. Desert racers are highly specialized race trucks built to do one thing-go fast over desert terrain. They are great for racing but for normal use they are basically useless. Kind of like daily driving a F1 car. Real off roading as practiced here is usually about going slow and seeing what's out there, taking pictures, and enjoying the moment. Normal people don't need or want to go 75mph over the desert and then miss the awesome stuff that's actually there.

Back to the original poster-take what you have and go on a trip. If it doesn't meet your needs, get something else. A Land Cruiser wagon is a versatile platform that will take you almost anywhere you'd care to go. So will a Taco and maybe even the Chevy you already own. But don't stress on the truck or the gear or anything else. Just go.

mmmmmm... Maybe yes, maybe no. Look at where people have "explored" in Myers Manxes, VW bugs and all kinds of other 2wd rigs... I'd bet that while 100% agree, you're right, they're totally overkill and not realistic for the OP, But in general if you simply adjusted the suspension and added a giant basket rack onto the rear tube-frame they'd get you out exploring in the desert pretty dam well. Desert race trucks tend to be able to carry enough fuel to do some decent distances and you could certainly do worse then an LT set-up for the OP's Chevy. Most of the time I use 4wd in the sand it's to get going from a slow speed in a fat, heavy rig, otherwise, 2wd in the desert does just fine a lot more then ya'd think. Plenty of guys out exploring the dunes/desert trails in Sand-Rails which have more in common with Class-buggies then any production truck/4wd. I'd think a nice LT set-up on his Chevy would get him pretty far actually and it'd certainly haul a load.

Totally agree with you about his current truck too, load it up and go mate, you own it, you know it, it's got 4wd and it sounds like it's certainly worth investing in. A Toyota 4wd is a great thing, I certainly love them, but you have a truck sounds like has served you well enough to this point.

Cheers

Dave

 

[toylandcruiser]

I disagree. You would not take a desert racer out into Death Valley or Utah or anywhere else real people use real 4 wheel drives to see the country. Desert racers are highly specialized race trucks built to do one thing-go fast over desert terrain. They are great for racing but for normal use they are basically useless. Kind of like daily driving a F1 car. Real off roading as practiced here is usually about going slow and seeing what's out there, taking pictures, and enjoying the moment. Normal people don't need or want to go 75mph over the desert and then miss the awesome stuff that's actually there.

Back to the original poster-take what you have and go on a trip. If it doesn't meet your needs, get something else. A Land Cruiser wagon is a versatile platform that will take you almost anywhere you'd care to go. So will a Taco and maybe even the Chevy you already own. But don't stress on the truck or the gear or anything else. Just go.

I think everyone's definition is different.


"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788