Land Rover Reliability.

[vanroth]

Quote:
Crankshaft position sensor

How did that not leave you stranded? Must have caught some warning signs just in time.

That was the closest I ever came to stranded. It cut out on me for 30 seconds in the middle of a busy road -- very close to being an ugly situation. Luckily I got it started again. It cut out a couple of times on the way home, but she made it.

The reality of Rover ownership is that you really do need to have the patience for when the real problems do surface. Part of the Rover love . Even so, I've debated selling mine before I have the first big service.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Unbelievable. Only five hours after my post yesterday my Three Amigos came on for the fifth time in as many years.

I hate my Disco.

 

[Paladin]

What really blows about the 3 Amigos... well, there is more than 1...

1) Can't read the codes with an OBDII scanner or anything, so most owners are at the mercy of a shop. Unless you buy a reader yourself, which is a wise investment, but most don't.

2) Many get suckered into paying $1000's for a new modulator, when in reality there is a $0.50 fix. Just last week I was at a Land Rover shop. The owner told me he was aware of the cheap fix, but didn't like to talk about it because "then I wouldn't sell any more modulators".

3) Many of the faults are intermittent, and come on for almost no reason. If you could reset the 3 Amigos somehow, like disconnecting the battery, you could carry on. But you can't. You HAVE to have a computer of some sort to reset it, and get your ABS brakes back. That's tragic. Frankly, I don't know why the system hasn't been recalled. It is a safety issue to lose your ABS brakes.

But, at the end of the day, there is still no other truck I would rather drive. I've driven a number of trucks, and I hate them all. I'm not a truck guy. For me it's a means to an end. Nothing else (save maybe a Range Rover) drives like a Disco.

 

[MatthewThompson]

What really blows about the 3 Amigos... well, there is more than 1...

1) Can't read the codes with an OBDII scanner or anything, so most owners are at the mercy of a shop. Unless you buy a reader yourself, which is a wise investment, but most don't.

Any experience with the ABS Amigo? It resets the lights and pulls the fault codes from the SLABS ECM. I've been interested in picking one up since you can actually fix what's wring instead of throwing parts at a mystery. (8 hours round trip from a dealer here, and not afraid to work on anything myself).

 

[Christophe Noel]

What really blows about the 3 Amigos... well, there is more than 1...


Many get suckered into paying $1000's for a new modulator, when in reality there is a $0.50 fix. .

This isn't to hijack the thread, but this ties into the OP's original question. I've become the poster child for the abuses of the Three Amigos, or Tres Bastardos, as I have come to know them.

My 3A's have been triggered by squeeky brakes, a dirty wheel speed sensor, a genuinely pooped out modulator, another random event that went unexplained, and most likely this time it's due to a rear right hub, which I believe is about to crap out on me. I have to say, my Discovery has been my most regretful purchase of the last 20 years. I'd sell it, but who'd want it? At this point, I'd rather drive just about anything than my Rover and I've babied that thing to know end. I don't even use it very hard offroad, and put less than 8,000 miles on it annually. I can't think of a more unreliable mode of transportation save for a drunk donkey.

Junk.

 

[Paladin]

Any experience with the ABS Amigo? It resets the lights and pulls the fault codes from the SLABS ECM. I've been interested in picking one up since you can actually fix what's wring instead of throwing parts at a mystery. (8 hours round trip from a dealer here, and not afraid to work on anything myself).

Yes, I'm quite aware of it. I haven't bought it because it seems quite limited for $200. Yes, it's better than nothing. But for $4-600, you can get a Hawkeye that does so much more. And I just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet. Largely because I haven't seen many other people using it. Some early adopters were disappointed, but they've made improvements. But I haven't seen reviews of the improvements.

But, Storey is also working on something else:

http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=50

Still, it won't do live data or actuators. Which seems important to me.

The only good thing about the 3 Amigos, is that it is an early warning of an impending wheel bearing failure. I just had to change one. The bearing isn't failed yet, but it's close. I prefer to find out this way and change it before it fails than to be left stranded somewhere. I just wish the damn hubs weren't so expensive. Classic case of the OEM not giving a **** about the end-user. They could still use a modern sealed bearing, but just make the bearings replacable instead of using the casting as the outer race. GM unit bearings are just as expensive. Ford does or did, use replacable sealed bearings which you can get for $50. Still not really field repairable like the old Rover bearings. But for $200, you can just replace all 4 every 50,000 miles if you wanted to be preemtive.

 

[MatthewThompson]

I agree the Hawkeye does sound like a better deal. SLABS and ACE communication tied it up for me (BCU?). OBD2 is just icing on the cake.

re: reliability, I love my rover, but it's really better suited to being a second vehicle that nothing's really riding on. I've had it for a year now, and the only thing it's really needed is the front propshaft rebuilt. I do have the 3 Amigos (Tres Bastardos! I like it!) pop in a couple times a week and the ACE works when it feels like it (night and day difference too, I love the ACE system). I'm deciding on the right diagnostic tool to ID and eliminate the trouble spots. Honestly, the Discovery is a capable, comfortable 4X4 that I bought with my eyes open. I consider it like a faithful old dog. It's going to ******** on the carpet from time to time.

I think people see brand cache and a low pricetag, then get a sour taste in their mouths when they don't give their Chelsea Tractor® the care and feeding it requires.

 

[Paladin]

Yes, second vehicle. It was my daily driver for a while. But it just got impractical after a while. The last straw for me, was shortly after changing the transmission, the rear main seal started leaking meaning I had to take the trans out again. I just said **** it, and bought an economy car for commuting. If you have a job, and kids, it's just too hard to keep up.

I'm not much worried about being left stranded. It only did once when the trans failed, which again, was not the truck's fault at all. And I'm guessing older Land Rover owners don't really think much about all the seals leaking and forget how many they have changed. That's "small potatoes". But it's just a PITA for me trying to stay on top of it, get to work on 9AM on Monday, and have time for the family on weekends.

I can see how owning a 2000 Disco in 2001 would suck. They were all new, nobody understood them, the Rave CD wasn't out, no scanners... you were just at the mercy of the dealer for EVERYTHING. It's not so bad now, but it's still a lot of work.

 

[LtFuzz]

I'd sell it, but who'd want it? Junk.

The guys in the classifieds on DiscoWeb.org snap up broken Discoveries faster than you can say "drunk donkey."

 

[Roverhound]

The ABS Amigo is a great investment. The Hawkeye is a joke. $650 for something you can only use on one vehicle? Get real. Oh, you can buy licenses for more vehicles at $250 a pop. The best solution to sporadic abs faults is to get the latest slabs module. I paid $90 for a brand new, never been programmed one on Ebay.
The part number is SRD500070.
Much better firmware and it will not cut off if you have your cdl engaged and restart the motor.

 

[Paladin]

To clarify, the Hawkeye can be used on ANY D2, if you buy the D2 software. The extra $250 is only to unlock a different vehicle type. With the Faultmate, your $800-1000 only works on one single VIN. It's about $2000 to unlock a vehicle type. About $10,000 to unlock the entire Land Rover line.

Don't let SY taint your view of the Hawkeye. He only retailed it. Here it is for $400.

http://www.mailorder4x4.com/acatalog/HAWKEYE_.html#a2762

The newer SLABS you mention is interesting. Is it just an 03-04 unit, or even better? Mine does not cut off if I restart in CDL.

My truck is actually not bad for 3 Amigos. I've really only had it twice. Once for a bad ground, once for a wheelspeed sensor that was genuinely bad. The end of it was destroyed because the bearings were failing.

 

[Howski]

I've had my DII for a year and a half now putting over 25k miles on it. Honestly, I was expecting the ownership to be worse. The only time I have been stranded was related to the coolant system (which is a total POS). I've had to replace the coolant expansion tank twice and a cracked t-stat. That happened last summer and I have had no coolant system issues since. Besides that I have had a window motor and 3 window regulators (damn plastic rollers) go out. These are pretty cheap and easy fixes. Anything else was caused by my own stupidity on the trails. I have an 04 which I think is supposed to be the most reliable along with the 99 DI. If you do decide to purchase, be familiar with the common problems and keep spares on hand. I have only got the 3 amigos since installing my rear locker in prolonged tight radius turning which is rare

 

[Christophe Noel]

I think people see brand cache and a low pricetag, then get a sour taste in their mouths when they don't give their Chelsea Tractor® the care and feeding it requires.

Or, there are those of us who pamper our Discos, do all of the necessary preventative maintenance, don't even use them very hard, and still end up with a file cabinet full of repair invoices. There are aspects of my Disco that I really love. Reliability is not one of them.

Many Land Rover enthusiasts enjoy spending spare time in the driveway maintaining and repairing their vehicles. They enjoy learning about the various weaknesses of their vehicle and how to overcome them. Not me. My hobby is driving my car, not wondering what mechanical calamity awaits me next.

 

[Roverhound]

The slabs number I posted is the latest one. As soon as I put one in my 2000 D2 my abs woes pretty much went away. This version of firmware is not as easily tripped by brake squeal or random noise. I also have a later version of abs module that has the fix done to it.
I thought the Hawkeye was vin specific, if not $400 is not to bad of a deal, especially if it can reflash computers.
Right now i just use obd2 software with an elm interface on my computer and an abs amigo.
With 2 D2's now the Hawkeye may be worth it. i might look in to it.

 

[Paladin]

I'm guessing I have the updated SLABS then as well. I'm guessing it's just what the 04's got, as they came with CDL from the factory, and don't shut off the SLABS when you engage difflock. I've have a few odd-ball 3 amigos trips, but they always reset themselves when I turn off the truck. If the 3 amigos were stuck on, I always had a real problem.

Out of curiousity, when you do get them, do you actually have 4 Amigos? 3+ the (!) parking brake? This is what I get, and I've seen some indication other 04's get the same.