ldea's for keeping one's water system from freezing ?

[FN4PAPA]

I don't plan to do any winter camping but sometimes at Altitude the temps do dip down well below freezing... I have been trying to figure a way to keep my water pump and the fresh water tank that is below the floor in my trailer from freezing... At home I use a very small pump to recirulate hot water through out pipes so we don't have to run a lot of water before it is hot... Water is like gold here in San Diego... see pic... was wondering if something like that might work in the trailer... it would take a bit of power and LP gas to heat the water which doesn't sound like a winner but not sure what other options there may be... What do you do ?

Thanks

 

[FN4PAPA]

I don't plan to do any winter camping but sometimes at Altitude the temps do dip down well below freezing... I have been trying to figure a way to keep my water pump and the fresh water tank that is below the floor in my trailer from freezing... At home I use a very small pump to recirulate hot water through out pipes so we don't have to run a lot of water before it is hot... Water is like gold here in San Diego... see pic... was wondering if something like that might work in the trailer... it would take a bit of power and LP gas to heat the water which doesn't sound like a winner but not sure what other options there may be... What do you do ?

Thanks

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Years ago I had a well house and winter was always below freezing, I put a small electric heater that automatically turned on at 35*f and turned off around 45*f . With the well shed being a little insulated and windproof.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Insulation, heat, and water movement.

Use as many of those factors as you can. With good insulation, a little heat can go a long way.

I don't know what the underside of your trailer looks like, but I'd try to fabricate an enclosure around your tanks and pipes, and fill the gap between the enclosure and everything inside with as much insulation as I could. At the same time consider adding electric tank heaters, or ducting heat into the tank area/enclosure.

 

[billiebob]

For the small temperature change and short time..... I'd consider adding spray foam insulation. For the waterlines, pump etc, a recirculating pump might be the easy solution.

Ultimately. if this is a regular goal keeping it all inside is the simple solution.

 

[burleyman]

Heat trace tape if possible to install. Typically 7 watts (120vac) per foot. If no 120vac source, use an inverter sized for total wattage needed. Placement of thermostat sensor directly on pipe rather than outside air can limit run time. So can insulation wrap.

Be aware that some glow anytime the 120vac source is present, others when the tape is on and warming.

Amazon.com : heat trace

It's a wonderful time for consumers. Heat blankets or pads. insuring contact for heat transfer and insulating against heat loss is the key.

Amazon.com : electric tank heater pad

 

[FN4PAPA]

Thanks all... great feedback...I like the idea of the heat tape and then some kind of blanket under the tank and pump... maybe something easily attached and removed for when I will be crawling over rocks... I will check out those links... Cheers

 

[IdaSHO]

Not sure if its been mentioned, but mass helps too.
As in, the more water you have in the tank the better.

We use our truck camper a lot during the winter, so keeping the tanks and lines from freezing is a must.
The entire system is within the heated cabin, complete with vents thru cabinetry to encourage the tanks and lines to stay above freezing.

In 10 years, we've never had a problem

 

[4000lbsOfGoat]

I don't plan to do any winter camping but sometimes at Altitude the temps do dip down well below freezing...

As long as the ambient temp is getting "well above freezing" during the day you should be fine. It takes a while for water to actually freeze solid (i.e. to the point that it would do any damage). No part of my water system is actually exposed directly to the outside air but none of it is particularly insulated or heated either. I've spent many nights "well below freezing" (23F was the coldest) with no issues - with the caveat that it was much warmer during the day so the tank\lines were all good and warm before the nighttime freeze.

The only thing I worry about is the water heater because it has very small passageways inside. These would be the first to freeze solid. If I know it will be cold, I run the hot water for a bit then wrap the water heater with a heavy flannel shirt for the night. It's worked well so far.

 

[llamalander]

As has been said, motion can be enough heat to forestall freezing if the temp isn't too low.
Simply recirculating the water can keep it liquid below freezing, especially if the tank is insulated
Pex tubing is also flexible enough to resist damage from freezing, and the pipes are far more likely to freeze than a tank.
it is worth paying attention to the smallest areas (high surface to volume ratio) first and the tank itself possibly last.

 

[FN4PAPA]

As has been said, motion can be enough heat to forestall freezing if the temp isn't too low.
Simply recirculating the water can keep it liquid below freezing, especially if the tank is insulated
Pex tubing is also flexible enough to resist damage from freezing, and the pipes are far more likely to freeze than a tank.
it is worth paying attention to the smallest areas (high surface to volume ratio) first and the tank itself possibly last.

I am using hose for my pipe so I am not too worried that it will freeze and split... my main concern is the pump which is located under the trailer, its the low point in the system. I think I will find a heat tape and wrap it, then turn that on if it gets really cold...

 

[billiebob]

yep, keep the pump running, water flowing...

You might setup a recirculating line thru the water heater and run the pump continuously to keep ALL the water warm.

The City of Yellowknife does this at every residence. Water supply into the house, return line back to the main in the street. During a power outage there are always a few homes whose back up battery power source fails and they end up with a frozen line. The water lines are all insulated and 10' underground but a -45C it only takes a few hours to freeze a line not circulating.

No different than marinas that pump air under boat hulls to keep the hull free of surface ice.. Keeping the water in motion makes a huge difference.

A lot of homes use a return line/recirculating pump on the hot water to keep hot water right at the tap.

Water Bottle Refill

How to refill yer water bottle in the Kootenays.

www.youtube.com

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

I actually popped into the forum to ask a similar question, so if this is hijacking the thread, please tell me to post elsewhere!

I have a cheap 3-season travel trailer. The tanks are external. The underbelly has 1-inch batt insulation held in place by a tarp, and the supply lines are sandwiched between that and the bottom of the plywood camper floor (so technically external but insulated).

I planned to pick up some ThermaHeat pads for the tanks and drain lines. My concern is those supply lines.

Do y'all think the radiant heat from the floor and the hot water line will be enough to keep them from freezing? We plan to drive for maybe 4-6 hours max a day, then use the camper so the water will be in movement.

I can't decide if I should wrap the lines in 12v heat tape, drain the lines and use bottled water until we hit warmer weather, or if I'll be fine with just the heat pads and regular use of the lines.

Thoughts?

 

[Alloy]

Heat tape/pads need allot battery power,

The most efficient is to circulate warm water/air.

Be aware of wind (at/below freezing) chill on the road and while camping.

A frost free valve is nice if you're cooking outside with temps above freezing during the day and below freezing at night.....and they won't freeze if the water system is full when towing



Low point (valves in the heated space) drains, installing the PEX and the pump (vertical motor with water lines sloping away) so water isn't trapped in the fitting plus onboard air allows the system to be filled/drained anytime.

Bluetooth thermometer (Sensor Push) to monitor the temperatures.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Heat tape/pads need allot battery power,

Most of the 12v heat pad systems I've seen average ~5 amps of draw. I just upgraded to a 270ah LiFePo4 battery, so I'm not overly concerned about that. The tape, on the other hand, seems to be more of a draw concern.

We have no inverter (nor any plans to get one), so I'm looking into 12v recirculating pumps now. That's an interesting option (and would save me from having to pull a bunch of insulation out to setup).

I know there's no one answer, but I can't figure out how long I can expect my supply lines to go before they freeze given my current setup.