Learn to Sail?

[rcintx]

For the past few years I have been drawn to sailing. Somehow, I have gotten old enough where I can see retirement as a real option ( a few years down the road). I would like to spend some time before that point learning the basics of sailing so when I do retire I might could have the option to moving to a little beach town and spending my days out on the water. For now, I am landlocked and will be stuck with the local lakes to learn on. On the plus side in West Texas there is never a shortage of wind to power you. I have found a couple of 101 sailing courses within a half days drive and think that would be a good place to start. I would also like to look into getting a play boat of my own. Close to me I have found small Sunfish dinghies and Hobie Catamarans. Any recommendations on the best place to start? Any words of caution o what to avoid?

I do have 2 kids I would like to be able to bring out on the boat once I figure it out. I'm not sure that is possible on a boat as small as a Sunfish.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Do the lessons to get a good baseline introduction and feel for it and then buy a Catalina 22. Small enough to easily handle but large enough to teach good sailing habits and have people along with you fairly comfortably.

 

[Ozarker]

I'd skip the boats you mentioned, IMO, they are water toys for kids, a Catalina 22 is a good old boat, but if you're thinking of blue water sailing I'd strongly suggest a minimum of 26 feet, 32 is more like it.

You'll learn that the water line length of your boat dictates stability in common wave lengths (32 ft. being on the small side in blue waters) and the hull speed underway.

Might as well learn on the boat (size) you intend to use. Also need to get going while you are physically fit, "The Old Man & The Sea" you don't want to be.
Good boats; Hunter, Irwins, Island Packets, Catalina, DuFour, C&C, G-Boats, Swan, Morgan and Tartans all "sea worthy" for the Bahamas. As to catamarans, you can have fun on a Hobbie, but open boats aren't for a retiree to be sailing.

Most enjoyable sail of my days was on a 50' Custom Catamaran around Hawaii, it wasn't my boat! An older Gemini 32 could be an affordable catamaran for light off shore sailing and island hopping. IMO, you need to learn on a monohull first, then go to the cats.

My last off shore boat was a 50' Sea Ray Sundancer, power not sailing, now I seldom get to the lake to take out my pontoon boat rigged for trout and bass fishing.

I'd suggest you start learning about boats and sailing, the forum 'SAILING' and Yacht World are great. Also get on Boat Trader and look at hundreds of sail boats under $25,000! Go learn to sail!

 

[casioqv]

Most yacht clubs - even on small lakes have some type of regular racing where you can just show up and volunteer to crew on a race boat with no experience. There are also often sailboat cruising clubs you can join, and crew for someone on a longer trip. I would recommend starting with something totally free like this before you spend money on classes or a boat.

It is helpful to first form an opinion of what kind of sailing and boat design you like before buying a boat, and also learning how to tell the condition of a boat.

My first sailboat was a Catalina 22 for $800 but that ended up being a mistake: first it needed $3k in parts and a lot of labor to be safe to sail, when I could have found a ready to go one for less than that. Second, it was actually too big of a boat for me- it takes forever to rig from a trailer, so just isn't fun for trailer sailing. I now have a much smaller Sage 17, which is also much more seaworthy, and sails better, despite taking 1/10th the time to rig, it's just a better boat design, and better quality.

I'd skip the boats you mentioned, IMO, they are water toys for kids, a Catalina 22 is a good old boat, but if you're thinking of blue water sailing I'd strongly suggest a minimum of 26 feet, 32 is more like it.

You'll learn that the water line length of your boat dictates stability in common wave lengths (32 ft. being on the small side in blue waters) and the hull speed underway.

Might as well learn on the boat (size) you intend to use. Also need to get going while you are physically fit, "The Old Man & The Sea" you don't want to be.
Good boats; Hunter, Irwins, Island Packets, Catalina, DuFour, C&C, G-Boats, Swan, Morgan and Tartans all "sea worthy" for the Bahamas. As to catamarans, you can have fun on a Hobbie, but open boats aren't for a retiree to be sailing.

Most enjoyable sail of my days was on a 50' Custom Catamaran around Hawaii, it wasn't my boat! An older Gemini 32 could be an affordable catamaran for light off shore sailing and island hopping. IMO, you need to learn on a monohull first, then go to the cats.

My last off shore boat was a 50' Sea Ray Sundancer, power not sailing, now I seldom get to the lake to take out my pontoon boat rigged for trout and bass fishing.

I'd suggest you start learning about boats and sailing, the forum 'SAILING' and Yacht World are great. Also get on Boat Trader and look at hundreds of sail boats under $25,000! Go

I disagree, or at least have a different opinion. Larger boats are more comfortable to sleep a lot of people on but are less fun to sail, much much more expensive, and require a lot more maintenance. Small boats are in no way inherently less seaworthy- or even necessarily slower, it all depends on the design and build quality. Many of the most seaworthy bluewater boats like the Falmouth Cutter 22 are quite small. The Moore 24 is a fast ocean racer just 24 feet long, that can get up on a plane at sea and beat the big boats to Hawaii. I frequently crew on a 36 foot race boat, and the Moore 24s fly right past us like we're standing still- and someone recently sailed one around the world. I've done many weeklong offshore trips in my previous 15 foot Montgomery, and now do so in my Sage 17, and am comfortable and safe. I had a Catalina 30 for a while, and find both the 15 and 17 to be both more comfortable to sleep aboard, and more seaworthy- just due to a better design. The Sage 17 will even point high to windward in storms and heavy seas that the Catalina 30 had to motor into. A 28 foot+ boat gets hard to handle solo in rough conditions, which can be a hazard. Even if you have multiple crew, it is nice if one person can handle the boat in any conditions so others can take a break.

I also think a small dingy like a sunfish or a beach cat is a great way to learn to sail and teaches you things about sail trim and balance that are hard to notice on a big boat, plus they're just a ton of fun. If you have a backpacker mindset you can even do long trips and cruises on a small dinghy- there are lots of resources now on "dinghy cruising." Just throw some backpacking gear in kayaking dry bags and go. All of the really skilled big boat racers I know learned on racing dinghies, and still spend a lot of time in them, even if they also sail big boats.

 

[Ozarker]

Most yacht clubs - even on small lakes have some type of regular racing where you can just show up and volunteer to crew on a race boat with no experience. There are also often sailboat cruising clubs you can join, and crew for someone on a longer trip. I would recommend starting with something totally free like this before you spend money on classes or a boat.

It is helpful to first form an opinion of what kind of sailing and boat design you like before buying a boat, and also learning how to tell the condition of a boat.

My first sailboat was a Catalina 22 for $800 but that ended up being a mistake: first it needed $3k in parts and a lot of labor to be safe to sail, when I could have found a ready to go one for less than that. Second, it was actually too big of a boat for me- it takes forever to rig from a trailer, so just isn't fun for trailer sailing. I now have a much smaller Sage 17, which is also much more seaworthy, and sails better, despite taking 1/10th the time to rig, it's just a better boat design, and better quality.

Agree, lots of ways to go and free is a great way to learn, there aren't any clubs in my area, it's Bass Pro Headquarters, the lakes are full of bass boats!

The OP's intent to sail from islands caused me to disregard trailer sailors, but you make a very good point. That generally means a drop keel and not much bigger than a 26 footer. Big advantages in taking the boat home with you.

Moorings and dock fees aren't cheap, even on area lakes (unless you own your dock). That Sundancer cost a tad over $15,000 to haul from Miami to just North of Ft. Worth, lucky the dock was only $10.00 a ft, per month ($500.00) plus metered electric.

Know too, a boat is a hole in the water in which you pour money. Big holes hold more money!

 

[casioqv]

I see too many people jump straight into big expensive boats with no sailing experience around here (SF Bay)- where they end up motoring everywhere with the sails down, crashing hard into docks a few times causing big expensive repairs and insurance involvement, and then giving up on the boat after a year or so -often when their family is too scared to come out with them anymore.

If they had picked up a dinghy for $200 on Craigslist they'd probably be still out there sailing every few days with money in the bank... and maybe they would decide they really want a big bluewater boat after all once they have years of experience crewing on other peoples big bluewater boats, and already know how to dock, sail, and maintain them. By that point they'll also have strong opinions about specific design features like keel shape, etc. that would almost certainly make them dislike any boat they had bought before they were experienced. For example, I found I don't like wheel steering, and it is somewhat rare to find big boats with a tiller instead of a wheel, but they do exist.

 

[Ozarker]

I see too many people jump straight into big expensive boats with no sailing experience around here (SF Bay)- where they end up motoring everywhere with the sails down, crashing hard into docks a few times causing big expensive repairs and insurance involvement, and then giving up on the boat after a year or so -often when their family is too scared to come out with them anymore.

If they had picked up a dinghy for $200 on Craigslist they'd probably be still out there sailing every few days with money in the bank... and maybe they would decide they really want a big bluewater boat after all once they have years of experience crewing on other peoples big bluewater boats, and already know how to dock, sail, and maintain them. By that point they'll also have strong opinions about specific design features like keel shape, etc. that would almost certainly make them dislike any boat they had bought before they were experienced. For example, I found I don't like wheel steering, and it is somewhat rare to find big boats with a tiller instead of a wheel, but they do exist.

Yep!

Now, don't anyone spoil our fun and tell the OP to just go rent a Hobbie on the beach or go charter.

 

[rcintx]

Thanks for the quick replies. I have gained something from each and will do research on all of the boats mentioned. I'd like to clear up my location and plans.

For the next 5 or so years I will be confined to local lakes within a couple of hours of me. I'd like to use that time to learn the basics of sailing and see if this is nearly as enjoyable as it looks. After that period and when I retire (or at least get these kids out of my house so I have more time) I would like to move to bigger boats and coastal cruising, maybe island hopping. I also plan to take a few courses and learn from professionals. No yacht clubs here unless its the redneck yacht club made up bass boats and pontoon party boats.

I do currently backpack and would be fine packing the basic camping gear into a small boat. I also come from a background of motorcycles, competitive long range shooting, and photography. I am well versed in expensive hobbies that take a TON of money.

 

[ITTOG]

This thread I started a while back has a similar tone and probably has some useful information for you.

https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/overwatering-or-is-it-just-sailing.244327/

 

[casioqv]

I do currently backpack and would be fine packing the basic camping gear into a small boat. I also come from a background of motorcycles, competitive long range shooting, and photography. I am well versed in expensive hobbies that take a TON of money.

Haha, then you will fit right into sailing. Check out the Small Craft Advisor magazine for info, and a community of people that cruise and do big adventures on small boats. They also have a lot of good reviews you can download for different boats on their website. https://smallcraftadvisor.substack.com/

 

[Ozarker]

Look up an old guy named Phil Bolger, his boats are simple to build, safe and fun.

One of my favorites is Lil' Cindy, (by another builder) a small catamaran you could car top.

Small boats, under 16 feet, have circumnavigated, sailed in every sea, taken the brave and stupid all over the world. I'm way past my prime to try and sail my coffin.

 

[casioqv]

Look up an old guy named Phil Bolger

I'm also a big fan of Bolger... a really creative out of the box thinker. My 7 year old son and I just finished building a 6' dinghy together and are planning to make a Bolger leg-o-mutton rig for it.

 

[Ozarker]

It's "Miss Cindy"

Turtle Island 16' MicroCat Cruiser

These micro-cruisers

These micro-cruisers would be a blast! But you need to be young, healthy, and be pretty gutsy to go off shore, these are costal cruisers but I'm sure you'd beat yourself up in the rough.

Another favorite micro is Paradox, they have made several trips to the Bahamas, South America and along the East Coast.

Important to say; These micro cruisers aren't just small boats, they are well designed for the purpose, with heavily built bottoms. Don't think you can take some lake sailor, like an old $500.00 McGregor out on a voyage that these micros take on. These micro are custom built, DIY, to plans and are not fiberglass production boats.

If I had the time and space, I'd build one to sail. Best way to know your boat is to build it!

 

[highwest]

Have a look at planning a vacation around an American Sailing (ASA) 101/103/104 course. They pack a lot of learning into a 3 day class/cruise. It includes the basics of sailing, safety, and looks into all the systems (12v, engine, water, etc.) that you’ll likely encounter on a reasonably sized boat. The certification will also give you access to charter organizations that want to see proper credentials.

 

[Ozarker]

The Sage 17 was mentioned above, it's a nice fair weather cruiser, a friend has one on Stockton Lake about 50 miles from me. Why do I say "fair weather"? There is no compression post to carry the mast to the hull, it's supported on the deck. The deck stays, those metal straps that anchor supporting mast lines to the boat are a weak point of trailer sailors, they attach to the hull and generally that area isn't built up to hold on for heavy weather sailing. But, on lakes, bays and coastlines, it can certainly be a safe boat.

To say "seaworthy" can be a misleading implication. It's really more on the sailor to master sailing skills than how unsinkable the boat is and any boat can be sunk/destroyed at sea.

I'm in the Midwest, lake country, so I didn't get many chances to hit the coast lines or island hop back in the day. ^ the suggestion by Highwest to seek out ASA classes and opportunities is a very good one, I never took the time and while I'm a boat guy, I can't charter anything bigger than a pontoon boat, I have no certifications, so if you can, do so.