Lets talk lockers for an Expo XJ

JohnnyBoots

New member
Thanks for the wealth of info guys. I should have included more info about the drivetrain configuration.

D30 up front, 8.25" in the rear and a 231 transfer case. I also don't plan on changing this set-up or the gearing.

I'm a pretty proficient shade tree mechanic but I've never messed with gearing and such. How many of you did the installs yourself?
 

aero

Adventurer
I purchased my XJ with a detroit locker (dont know brand) in the rear and a lockright(i think) auto locker up front.

The rear one is decent, would be nice to be able to turn it off at times (like tight turning on snow and ice), but it makes it awesome off road. The front auto-locker I removed to go back to stock because when I would go uphill in 4wd and needed to go around tight turns, it would push to the outside of the corner. That sucks when its a cliff! So I was having to put it in 2wd for the corners then back into 4wd.
 

BigRedXJ

Adventurer
I've got an Aussie locker in the rear 8.8 and it's great. Like it's been stated before, be conscious of how you apply the throttle in the corners and you're fine. If you do more street driving then a selectable locker is by far the way to go. For me, an air locker is better than an electrical simply because the compressor required can also air up your tires. That's why I like having an ARB up front. It's on when I need it, off when I don't.
 

JohnnyBoots

New member
What are your guys thoughts on the ARB Air Locker up front in the Dana 30 and a Truetrac out back? I think this might give the best of both worlds with a full-time advantage AND having the front air locker allows me to have the compressor for other duties.
 

BigRedXJ

Adventurer
I think that's a great idea. Especially if you aren't looking for an auto locker in the rear, the True Trac is a good second choice.
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
...to do the front or back first. I'm not worried about cost and driveability is key, doing it correctly the first time is the way I do things. . ...

All of the above is fine, but considering what you posted, rear ARB is the answer. When it is off it drives identical stock, when you need help it is fully locked. I have an Aussie, which I think i just broke, for my ZJ on 33s that I take to the rocks, it is great. For the street I am fine with it, but it clicks around corners if you are not giving it gas and it chirps tires if you are on the gas. When you really get on a limited slip they will slip and are not a "true" locker, the word slip is in the title.
 

nitro-gear

Supporting Sponsor - Differential & Axle Parts
If you want to do this on a budget: Lock-Right in the front (I ran this in an XJ and went further on the same setup than guys who only had the rear locker).

If you want the best choice: ARB Air lockers front and rear, this will also give you onboard air.
 
I went through the exact same struggle when deciding on lockers for the XJ. In the end, I went with an Aussie Locker in the 8.25 with the intention of adding a front locker later. This arrangement did so well I never felt the need to lock the front and never did. Our rig was on 31" all terrains with 3.55 gears and we ran all over Moab, local trails, OHV parks, etc.. One thing that always surprised me was how much off highway driving I could do in 2wd.

Some things to consider:

  • When engaged, lockers create understeer -it's the nature of the beast. It doesn't matter if you lock only the front, the rear, or both. However, you will find much greater understeer from a locked front axle than from the rear.
  • When driving in off camber situations, a locked axle tends to drag the locked axle down the slope. This is amplified if the terrain is slippery.
  • Locking the front axle will increase the risk of braking universal joints. It also increases the load on the steering components, so make sure your rig is up to the task before installing a locker.
  • A locked axle will increase the risk of losing control of your vehicle on slick roads. So if you will be driving on the pavement in freezing weather, a selectable locker is the only safe choice.
  • Adding a "lunchbox" locker to the Chrysler 8.25 is surprisingly simple, the front requires more work but is also surprisingly simple.

Here is an old video of my wife driving up an obstacle at Fins 'n' Things in Moab, UT:


She may have made it up without performing the "Moab bump" if the front was locked as well, but as you can see from the video it did not stop her from safely completing the obstacle.
 

djwrangler

New member
Had an Aussie in the rear of my old XJ. Was wonderful offroad but on the street, it was horrible. Yeah, you can live with it, but it made my daily commute miserable. Mind you, that XJ was a 5 speed and I hear that autos have a slightly easier time with auto lockers in the rear. From my experience though, I can't recommend one for the rear on something like a daily driver.

Currently, I'm running a Lockright in the front D30 and a limited slip in the rear 8.25. I can handle just about anything offroad and on the street, it behaves like stock. Even works great in the snow. I think True Tracs would be a great choice.
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
With a vehicle like the XJ, which has excellent flexibility, TT's are the hot ticket for simplicity.

First priority if you don't already have it would be a front sway bar disconnect. That will greatly improve the offroad ride of your XJ, and helps the suspension keep all the tires in contact with the ground. That greatly increases mobility, which is directly related to even ground contact pressure if you have open diffs. With TT's, as long as there is some torque flowing through them, they tend to bind up pretty well. This can easily be aided with a little pressure on the brake pedal also if the going gets really crossed up, or you have a few tires on a fairly slick surface.

I have a front TT and a rear Rubicon locker (Functions like a loose TT when it's unlocked) in my TJ. I almost never use the rear locker. A little brake pressure almost always gets all four spinning, or if I'm headed for a crossed up spot, I pre-apply the brakes a little and drive right through with no tire spin. With a real TT in the back, I'd probably not need the locker at all, except for real hard rock crawling type stuff, which I don't often do anymore.

That said, if you have an automatic and you'd like a cheaper option, you could try a lunchbox style locker in the rear axle, and it would probably get you through everything you'd ever encounter in normal overlanding. I have run them a few times with manuals, and while they get the job done, I don't care for it. They bang, lurch, and pop as you go on and off throttle, and add unwanted slop to the driveline in general. With an auto, most of that is eliminated, and you're left with the only real downside as driving off the inside wheel in turns, which is OK if you're light on the throttle, or OK with a little tire slip noise if you "get on it" a bit.

As for winter driving, I think people put a little too much emphases on how anything but an open diff will make you spin out. That view assumes two things: First, that you're out of touch enough with your vehicle that you're constantly spinning the rear tires, and second, that anytime the tires spin with an open diff, only one spins. The truth is that an open diff can and will do the same thing if both rear tires slip at the same time, and either way, the real answer is that you need to brush up on your winter driving skills. Vehicle don't "spin out" because the road is slippery, they mostly spin out because drivers TELL THEM TO by reacting poorly to slick conditions.

That said, having a lunchbox or detroit locker does make the rear pretty unstable in tight turns if it's slick. That's because it doesn't spread torque during a turn, it puts it all to the slower inside tire, which easily breaks the inside loose and spins it a little until it's speed matches the outer tire. With the spinning inside tire not contributing lateral grip anymore, it's all on the remaining tire to keep you straight. If one tire isn't enough, or you spin that one too, then you're "hanging it out". If you know it happens, you can compensate, but you do have to deal with it. A LSD can still spread torque over both tires, but not as evenly as an open diff.

Sorry if you only wanted $.02, I'm evidently a big spender... :)
 
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uber

Observer
lock the front first IMO.. its easier to pull yourself up and over an obstacle than it is to push yourself over it. personally I run a lokka auto locker (they make aussie lockers) in my d30 and it has made a huge improvement in her off road ability. the unit cost me a smidge over$200 shipped to my door, and took maybe 2 hours total to install. the clicks when turning in 2wd are barely audible even with my doors off and stereo turned down.
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
lock the front first IMO.. its easier to pull yourself up and over an obstacle than it is to push yourself over it. personally I run a lokka auto locker (they make aussie lockers) in my d30 and it has made a huge improvement in her off road ability. the unit cost me a smidge over$200 shipped to my door, and took maybe 2 hours total to install. the clicks when turning in 2wd are barely audible even with my doors off and stereo turned down.

More times you are going to get stuck trying to climb up something and the weight will be on the rear tires. A locker in the rear, where the weight is, and not in the front that is floating around makes more sense. The rear diff is larger and therefore has more strength to handle a locker as well. Also, you are not putting strain on your steering components.
 

katuah

Adventurer
My XJ has a Powertrax No-Slip in the C8.25 rear. I have the AX-15 manual, so yes, it does have a bit of bang & lurch on the trail, I have to be nimble on the three-footed dance, but in terms of value, it has been excellent. So far I've never once felt a real need for a front locker after putting it in. YMMV, as I am not much for doing super-hard trails just to say I have. My use is more overlander-expo.

If I had gobs of disposable cash, I would put in ARBs front and rear, but I don't. Do what you can afford, and then get out there and see what you can do with it :)
 

jscusmcvet

Explorer
My XJ has a Powertrax No-Slip in the C8.25 rear. I have the AX-15 manual, so yes, it does have a bit of bang & lurch on the trail, I have to be nimble on the three-footed dance, but in terms of value, it has been excellent. So far I've never once felt a real need for a front locker after putting it in. YMMV, as I am not much for doing super-hard trails just to say I have. My use is more overlander-expo.

If I had gobs of disposable cash, I would put in ARBs front and rear, but I don't. Do what you can afford, and then get out there and see what you can do with it :)

This. Go rear first, try the lunchbox type and see how it works... You can always remove and sell if you decide to upgrade to an ARB or other selectable.

John
 

Hunter67

Observer
Beside of the weight distribution to the rear in most offroad situations which require a locker, the normal appraoch is locking the rear first as it doesn't influnce the steering as much as locking the front and the whole drive train in the rear normally is much beefier than the one in the front.
Beside if this: Having a locker in the rear often avoids having to activate the 4-wheel-drive at all.
 

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