Lifts on Expedition Vehicles
- Thread starter limey
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Likes to Drive and Ride
I don't have your level of mechanical skill, and my vehicles have always been very conservatively modified, but I agree with the "drive it there" mentality.
For example, we’ve been to Moab about 5 times, always driven there, wheeled, and drove back. First few visits were in full-sized diesel trucks with no lift, that wheeled well and towed a travel trailer 700-miles both directions.
James
For example, we’ve been to Moab about 5 times, always driven there, wheeled, and drove back. First few visits were in full-sized diesel trucks with no lift, that wheeled well and towed a travel trailer 700-miles both directions.
James
lowenbrau said:
dieselcruiserhead
16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
lowenbrau said:
It is true I have been reading about Bruce's adventures for a long long time. He is one of the most travelled and hardcore guys probably on this board IMO!
(sluuuurrrrrpppp ) Also about par on the craziness factor of all the cruiserheads from Calgary I know, right Bruce?
I love your site, missing the picts of '01 ACT and some of the other adventures with Straub...
Ritchie is the one who taught me about the 3B pre cup porting and polishing I am always bladding about... I still cannot believe how much power you can get out of them...
http://www.rmlca.ab.ca/
lowenbrau
Explorer
dieselcruiserhead said:It is true I have been reading about Bruce's adventures for a long long time. He is one of the most travelled and hardcore guys probably on this board IMO!
Thanks Andre for the vote of confidence but I'm humbled by the real and often third world experience that is shared on this site. I'm truly a newb when it comes to anything but domestic overland travel. There are guys here like charlieaarons who bought his first diesel Land Cruiser when I was 12 (still has it) and now can be seen modeling his UNICAT in Morocco. Others like Jonathon Hanson who set a real example for frugal living and the decadent life experience it allows. Finally expeditionswest (Scott) who shares this site and his exuberance for overland travel and all it encompasses with enthusiasm and always a positive attitude. ( um except if you're driving a monster truck in the desert). I value this forum because of the quality of its members, unequaled on the interweb, I'd wager.
Overland Hadley
on a journey
lowenbrau said:
That is an amazing idea.
I think I am going to write that on my wall.
Thank you.
Oman4x4
Laurie Bridger
Depends on what you want to do...
I can certainly see an advantage to a lower vehicle... but my advantages to having a suspension lift and of course the bigger tires are:
Improved break over angle
Improved ground clearance under diffs
Improved approach and departure angles
Better floatation over sand
Keeps everything a little higher when going through water
I'm currently at a 4" lift and 33" tires. I'd like to change that to 5" and 38" tires. My fenders just got significantly bigger recently
I can certainly see an advantage to a lower vehicle... but my advantages to having a suspension lift and of course the bigger tires are:
Improved break over angle
Improved ground clearance under diffs
Improved approach and departure angles
Better floatation over sand
Keeps everything a little higher when going through water
I'm currently at a 4" lift and 33" tires. I'd like to change that to 5" and 38" tires. My fenders just got significantly bigger recently
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Its a tough question. I think it depends on what you are trying to do. There have been many people that have done amazing things with smaller tires. Personally I want my vehicle to be able to do more difficult terrain than what most people would dub 'expedition' four wheeling.
My next project will likely be a 2004-2006 Jeep Unlimited ( LJ ). I have decided to go with a 37" tire on it. I will be running the AEV Highline kit so I can tuck the large tires on with only about 3" of lift. I will also be doing some modifications to the floor pan for a flat crossmember and an ATLAS 4spd. I think having a smooth undercarriage buys you a ton off road. The belly may be slightly lower than some other people out on the trail, but when you do finally hit the belly it pays to have it smooth and slippery so you just slide back off or over. There is nothing worse than getting stuff stuck up in the undercarriage and not being able to more forward OR back off. I hate that. Ok back to tires...
I don't think that there are too many trails in the US that you would want to take a full body jeep on that you couldn't make with 37" tires. For that matter you can argue that you could do them with 35s or even 33s. The reason why I want 37s is more for the snow flotation. I do a LOT of snow wheeling and think that something around 37s is about the perfect compromise. Sure, it would be nice to run 49" Iroks in the snow, but I wouldn't want to drive cross country on them....
Off-road vehicle design is all about compromise...
Weight vs Strength
Strength vs Cost
Tire Size vs Overall height
Vehicle size vs Trail Capability
Load capacity vs Vehicle size
Etc.
For me, if I am not driving around in a Unimog style camper, the best option I think, is going to be something like a bobbed jeep scrambler, a 04-06 Unlimited, a toyota 4 runner, maybe an FJ80. I think in that vehicle classification I think 37s are about the best compromise for trail capability vs long distance daily driving.
My next project will likely be a 2004-2006 Jeep Unlimited ( LJ ). I have decided to go with a 37" tire on it. I will be running the AEV Highline kit so I can tuck the large tires on with only about 3" of lift. I will also be doing some modifications to the floor pan for a flat crossmember and an ATLAS 4spd. I think having a smooth undercarriage buys you a ton off road. The belly may be slightly lower than some other people out on the trail, but when you do finally hit the belly it pays to have it smooth and slippery so you just slide back off or over. There is nothing worse than getting stuff stuck up in the undercarriage and not being able to more forward OR back off. I hate that. Ok back to tires...
I don't think that there are too many trails in the US that you would want to take a full body jeep on that you couldn't make with 37" tires. For that matter you can argue that you could do them with 35s or even 33s. The reason why I want 37s is more for the snow flotation. I do a LOT of snow wheeling and think that something around 37s is about the perfect compromise. Sure, it would be nice to run 49" Iroks in the snow, but I wouldn't want to drive cross country on them....
Off-road vehicle design is all about compromise...
Weight vs Strength
Strength vs Cost
Tire Size vs Overall height
Vehicle size vs Trail Capability
Load capacity vs Vehicle size
Etc.
For me, if I am not driving around in a Unimog style camper, the best option I think, is going to be something like a bobbed jeep scrambler, a 04-06 Unlimited, a toyota 4 runner, maybe an FJ80. I think in that vehicle classification I think 37s are about the best compromise for trail capability vs long distance daily driving.
devinsixtyseven
Explorer
Aussie, that's a great can of worms to open, and Lowenbrau you got me cracking up with the "Talkeetna Tanning Salon" comment...what a great reminder of home and our oddball flavor of humor. I'd hate to see the nail salon . Next time you're in Anchorage, check out the Fly By Night Club, if he hasn't gone out of business again . Plenty of blue tarp jokes .
A couple cents from me...and bear in mind I knew absolutely squat about vehicles when I got my truck about six years ago, what I know came from so much time talking to people older and wiser like those who've chimed in on this thread...
Don't worry about lift, ever.
Only worry about clearance to the frame and body at any turn angle and full compression, running a tire that's easy to obtain (or you have two spares).
Worry if you have enough compression at your ride height to stay off the bumpstops if you need to go up or down the rocks and ledges you'll find in your travels--particularly IFS vehicles, since every hit on the bumpstops tries to pull your alignment off just a hair.
Consider if you have enough droop to allow the tire to follow the terrain at 45mph or so, and if your shocks can move fast enough to follow the terrain while handling the loads we carry.
Only mount as large a tire as won't break your axles, and you can change easily on your own.
Lift? Lift is for when the sawzall option runs dry.
If you're compressing a coil to the point it's locking, you need a longer coil. If you're regularly compressing that coil to the bumpstops, you need a stiffer coil.
Some of the best places I've found information on durable components and vehicle control has been manufacturers and websites centered around desert racing rather than rock crawling. Many manufacturers and competitors hang around those forums and are generally very welcoming of newcomers with questions...it's eye-opening going from a forum (not this one, btw) where everyone talks about what lift height they needed to run a certain tire size, to a forum where people talk about how many competitions a component has lasted, or what spring rate works for their application, and so on.
-Sean
. Next time you're in Anchorage, check out the Fly By Night Club, if he hasn't gone out of business again . Plenty of blue tarp jokes .A couple cents from me...and bear in mind I knew absolutely squat about vehicles when I got my truck about six years ago, what I know came from so much time talking to people older and wiser like those who've chimed in on this thread...
Don't worry about lift, ever.
Only worry about clearance to the frame and body at any turn angle and full compression, running a tire that's easy to obtain (or you have two spares).
Worry if you have enough compression at your ride height to stay off the bumpstops if you need to go up or down the rocks and ledges you'll find in your travels--particularly IFS vehicles, since every hit on the bumpstops tries to pull your alignment off just a hair.
Consider if you have enough droop to allow the tire to follow the terrain at 45mph or so, and if your shocks can move fast enough to follow the terrain while handling the loads we carry.
Only mount as large a tire as won't break your axles, and you can change easily on your own.
Lift? Lift is for when the sawzall option runs dry.
If you're compressing a coil to the point it's locking, you need a longer coil. If you're regularly compressing that coil to the bumpstops, you need a stiffer coil.
Some of the best places I've found information on durable components and vehicle control has been manufacturers and websites centered around desert racing rather than rock crawling. Many manufacturers and competitors hang around those forums and are generally very welcoming of newcomers with questions...it's eye-opening going from a forum (not this one, btw) where everyone talks about what lift height they needed to run a certain tire size, to a forum where people talk about how many competitions a component has lasted, or what spring rate works for their application, and so on.
-Sean
Oilburner
Adventurer
lowenbrau said:
This is exactly the type of use I get out of my Land-Rover 109. I recently drove it from Ottawa ON to Moab UT and back, on 37 inch tires, with a 5 inch (spring over on longer, softer de-arched springs). That's a 5000 mile round trip, and we ran trails 3 days. Every single part of the truck is custom, but that's not really a problem as I'm confortable enough with it to repair it anywhere. Despite its one-off construction, most of the parts are very standard, off-the shelf components. Leaf springs, although somewhat prone to breaking, can be bought/repaired at any spring shop, these are common all over the place as heavy trucks have the same problem. The axles are reliable, and use standard off-the shelf components (toyota). Engine is common. T case is easy to find. Etc.
Some vehicles can be lifted with better reliability than others. The leaf-sprung Land-Cruisers and Land-Rovers share a very similar design when it comes to suspension, and are pretty easy to lift reliably. Anything over 2-3inches on most vehicles will seriously affect reliability of driveline components. Wheelbase is another big issue, on a LWB rig the driveline issues are minimized.
It is a balancing act, weight vs. ability vs. size vs. fuel mileage vs. comfort. Mine maxes out on ability and fuel mileage and suffers in all other respects, especially comfort. I like it, but most people think it is too loud and it has very little creature comforts.
I have to make it up to one of the Alaska Cruiser Treks at some point. Hopefully I will be allowed in, I do have Toyota driveshafts. Andre, should we start planning for the next one?
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dieselcruiserhead
16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
LOL sounds good to me. I am really upset I missed finally meeting you J-L! Anyway, I am switching to coils currently but for the first time. I do believe leafs are a stronger/better option particularly for load carrying. You can set them up with overload springs where heavier loads trigger additional leafs, unlike coils. So they can ride well/articulate well, and comfortably but still carry heavy weights. My truck was a wheeler, DDer, and would tow cars if needed and as required...
Mogs are fine on coils but are stiff when unloaded but their design and wheelbase except on SWB models counteract it. I am installing air bags into my coils in the rear to compensate for additional load as required. I do think this is a tolerable solution but you would have to carry a spare for anything really rural. But things are changing with global shipping, etc.
Mogs are fine on coils but are stiff when unloaded but their design and wheelbase except on SWB models counteract it. I am installing air bags into my coils in the rear to compensate for additional load as required. I do think this is a tolerable solution but you would have to carry a spare for anything really rural. But things are changing with global shipping, etc.