Lockers vs. TruTrack

[cruiseroutfit]

This topic has been beat to death... but here is a good read to stimulate the debate...

Your right, it will stimulate the debate. Piles of anecdotal hearsay and myths propagated as though they are facts. Poor parts suppliers, improper installation, bent axle housings (broken cylinder cap screws) & poor airline hose routing, just to name a few. You can't blame the ARB for improper aftermarket parts fittment (stainless steel lines are not from ARB) just as you can't blame ARB for a vendor to recommend spares. I recommend folks carry a spare fuse for their Engel, its a couple of dollars and takes second to swap, how is that a downfall? Read on in his comments and he himself ended up with ARB's and has been happy with them.

I've sold and installed hundreds of ARB Air lockers including 6 in my own rigs. I can absolutely say that they have been 99% trouble free. In fact of all the installs we have done, I've had one that had "leakage" issues and I documented in thoroughly here. Now keep in mind I think my results are somewhat skewed, all of our ARB setups are done in drop-out 3rd (off the vehicle) where conditions are prime for a sucsesful install, most (all) of which are Toyota applications in which there are literally zero fault or shortcomings in the ARB applications, I can't speak for certain for say a D30, nor do I care too, its not my business but on the same hand I won't compare the strength and reliability of a Yukon D30 shaft with a Yukon D60 shaft

We have a test pressure apparatus that is used on every outgoing Air Locker prior to install. This allows us to verify the O-rings, bulkhead fitting and seal housing are 100% tight. If we are servicing an older ARB, we'll use the latest and greatest ARB o-rings (they are continually upgrading and improving their locker line) I've seen a ton of problems related to ARB's, I get them in for service calls on occasion. All related to installer error. Air lines run into the BOTTOM of the axle housing, o-rings installed dry. Cross-shaft retainer pins left out, notched cross-shafts... all things that a seasoned ARB installer would not send out the door. Air line routing is also crucial. Would you run your brakeline within inches of your exhaust? How about next to your driveline? The same care should be taken when routing air supply lines. Run them in the frame when possible, and take them from the frame to the axle along side a brake line or axle vent (all 3 is together is our choice). Many installers have their own "tricks" for line installation, for example we run the frame to the axle section inside of an appropriately sized rubber line, just to shield it from brush, rocks, etc. I'm happy to say its pretty much resolved any and all air line supply issues. You get what you pay for, not only with the purchase of the locker but more so the install. Call and chat with the ARB techs if your interested in finding a qualified installer in your area.

Man, I'm defending the Detroit and the ARB in the same day I think they are both great lockers and its obvious why both are the top picks of many. Like Stu I have seen Detroits fail after breaking an axle shaft, rare... just as issues with a properly installed ARB in my opinion.

Disclaimer: These are all my opinions, not those of ARB, Detroit or any other vendor of mine. I've had the pleasure to sit through training on both models, as recently as last fall when I was able to meet the engineer behind the Air Locker's latest improvements (timed engagement, clip style seal housings, etc) during a tech seminar he hosted.

Here is a good....one page tells all.

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/limited-slip-lockers-differentials.htm[/IMG]

That is a good overview, they have a couple of facts wrong as they pertain to the Toyota E-Lockers but overall a great writeup. FWIW the Tacoma and 4Runner started getting the E-Locker in 97' (albeit an option that became standard on the following years TRD's). Likewise the LC started getting them in the Full-float 93/94 models that continued. Prior to even that cable lockers were common in Toyotas around the world, they too can be sourced in the US from many of the non-US parts suppliers and make stalwart and burly options for 9.5" Land Cruiser diffs

...Toyota TRD Electric Locking 3rd Member....they don't have any. This would be my preference...

A great locker no doubt, but they too are not without their problems. The standard 8" (both high pinion and low pinion versions) are really only prone to problems with the solenoid/actuator setups, rare but an increasingly common problem that isn't always a cheap fix. Keep your eyes out there for used ones, they still sell in the $300-600 range around these parts on a somewhat regular basis, I just scored one last week for $250

The 9.5" version of the Toyota E-Locker had a bit more troubling problem. If the actuator side of the axle were to fail, its quite possible and dare I say common for the splines to twist and become stranded inside of the housing, preventing the 3rd from being removed. Delicate surgery on the axle housing (cutting a hole in a stamped housing) becomes the only option. I've dealt with this just a couple times, I know SLEE has seen in on a greater occasion. Rare, but an issue.

 

[lowenbrau]

I can't imagine any need for a debate at all unless strength and cost come into the equation. I have run lunchbox lockers, air actuated, electric actuated, mechanical actuated, true LSD, factory LSD, and spool.

Selectable is worth the money 7 days a week and is my preference. ARB is likely the strongest though I personally have had bad luck (and service) with them. I wonder if McNamara's vacuum locker will ever become mainstream on this side.

Everything else is a compromise and I'd rather run a spool than an auto locker. Spools are complete predictable and reliable and once you get the hang of them you can even figure out how to minimize tire wear.

My latest Cruiser has three selectable diffs and it is functionally perfect. Having an open center diff absolutely rocks on insecure roads. Need traction? "Push the fun buttons, Dork!"

 

[brianjwilson]

I find that most of the people who badmouth automatic lockers and claim they are dangerous have never run them. They are very predictable. It does take a little bit of adjustment, but they are 100% predictable. They do not "randomly" lock.
I would definitely not prefer a spool over an automatic locker on a daily driver. Especially the front, obviously.
A selectable locker would be preference for sure, but I was very happy with automatic lockers. I've used aussie, lock-rite, and detroit. The great thing with them, in my opinion, is that they are very simple, inexpensive, easy to install, and treat you well as long as they are installed properly (atleast the lunch box lockers).

I have heard very good things about Torsens and True-tracs, mainly for daily drivers. A few people have written reports saying that they will act similar to lockers if the brakes are applied when they are in a bind. I've never used them off-road though, just driven torsen equipped rangers on the road.

 

[mauricio_28]

Why do I want a locker on my rear differential?

What's the availability of the ARB rear locker for the 4WD D40 Nissan Navara/Frontier?

 

[ntsqd]

If anyone is keeping score you can put me in the box full of folks who own and drive (& occasionally DD) a Detroit (Soft)Locker and are not happy with them.

Once in the dirt I've no complaints, none.

I find the pavement manners to be uncivilized, but I can not say that it's unpredictable. You pretty much know what it's going to do once you have a little time driving with it. It is it's choice of timing that usually upsets me and the truck.

It must not bug me as much as I think that it does because it has been in the truck from before my taking ownership in 1998 and although I wank about it, it's still in there.

 

[RocTrac]

I seems like most issues are coming from folks that are driving like they stole it. I have selectiable air lockers front and rear with a limited slip in the rear. It is a factory package in the Rubicon TJ's. I have driven through snow, ice, etc.... and all that I can say is that it is a :smiley_drive: issue. You need to be smarter than the equipment you operate.

 

[tdesanto]

I seems like most issues are coming from folks that are driving like they stole it. I have selectiable air lockers front and rear with a limited slip in the rear. It is a factory package in the Rubicon TJ's. I have driven through snow, ice, etc.... and all that I can say is that it is a :smiley_drive: issue. You need to be smarter than the equipment you operate.

Can you tell me what type of rear locker you have that is both a selectable air locker and a limited slip?

Mitsu makes an OEM one for my vehicle that does have both of these functions, but alas it was never brought to the states.

 

[RocTrac]

Can you tell me what type of rear locker you have that is both a selectable air locker and a limited slip?

Mitsu makes an OEM one for my vehicle that does have both of these functions, but alas it was never brought to the states.

Jeep Rubicon rear Dana 44 comes with both. Some folks say that it weakens the locker and replace it with a rubi front locker. I am not sure who makes it though.

 

[mcm4090]

What's the availability of the ARB rear locker for the 4WD D40 Nissan Navara/Frontier?

You have a M226 rear end in your D40.
ARB does make a locker for that rear end. Also there is a True Trac available for the M226.

 

[Crikeymike]

Why do I want a locker on my rear differential?

What's the availability of the ARB rear locker for the 4WD D40 Nissan Navara/Frontier?

Here's your answer for the rear: http://arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/newProductAdvice/10-22-08RD149_pr_web.pdf

 

[Crikeymike]

For those home viewers who like to watch video examples, here's a good comparison using 3 traction variants in the same vehicle (Toyota Prado):

One with a rear LSD
One with electronic traction control
One with ARB air lockers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2wkW05Pc6c&feature=channel

and part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNFacsKnswM&feature=channel_page

These point out good safety benefits and also vehicle control of one over the other. It definitely doesn't take much for an LSD or traction control to be quite ineffective offroad. If you're keeping the tires on the ground, then you'll be doing fine either way you go, but lift one up in the air and you won't have many options other than being able to engage a locker at that time.

My favorite thing about an LSD is that it's called a "limited slip diff", so it's not going to be able to control all of the slip. I heard once what the actual lbs/in it takes for a specific LSD (can't remember model) to slip, but it was quite lower than I expected.

 

[michaelgroves]

In most stock 4x4 vehicles the common Open Differential can be found in both the front and rear axles. When a wheel in the front AND a wheel in the back are allowed to spin free due to the Open Differentials, that 4x4 is essentially a 2 wheel drive vehicle.

Not really on topic, but this kind of woolly thinking is all too prevalent. No, it's not two wheel drive, any more than a permanent 4WD vehicle with an unlocked centre diff is one wheel drive! If "drive" refers to the force applied to the wheels to make the car move, then a vehicle with 3 open diffs always has the same amount of "drive" at all four wheels. If the car is moving, it's 4WD. If there is insufficient traction, you might, I suppose, reasonably describe it as 0WD. But never 1WD or 2WD.

 

[Redline]

Yes, off topic but I like your description - no traction equals Zero x Zero drive

On Topic-

Have had a few 4x4s with open diffs at both ends, a few with rear limited slips & open fronts, and now my last two with selectable lockers front and rear, I much prefer the lockers.

Though I was a naysayer about ABS-type traction control, having it along with selectable lockers is a very nice, versatile combination.

Not really on topic, but this kind of woolly thinking is all too prevalent. No, it's not two wheel drive, any more than a permanent 4WD vehicle with an unlocked centre diff is one wheel drive! If "drive" refers to the force applied to the wheels to make the car move, then a vehicle with 3 open diffs always has the same amount of "drive" at all four wheels. If the car is moving, it's 4WD. If there is insufficient traction, you might, I suppose, reasonably describe it as 0WD. But never 1WD or 2WD.

 

[charlieaarons]

Not really on topic, but this kind of woolly thinking is all too prevalent. No, it's not two wheel drive, any more than a permanent 4WD vehicle with an unlocked centre diff is one wheel drive! If "drive" refers to the force applied to the wheels to make the car move, then a vehicle with 3 open diffs always has the same amount of "drive" at all four wheels. If the car is moving, it's 4WD. If there is insufficient traction, you might, I suppose, reasonably describe it as 0WD. But never 1WD or 2WD.

Bravo! Another way of looking at it:
An open diff is "equal torque"; it supplies equal amounts of torque to each side. If a wheel spins, it is taking almost zero torque so the amount of torque supplied to the non-spinning wheel is almost, but not quite, zero.
A locked diff (selectable or automatic or spool) is "equal speed". Both wheels turn at equal speed regardless of traction.

My personal preference is a rear autolocker with a front selectable. The throttle oversteer of an rear autolocker on ice are completely mitigated by using 4WD in icy conditions. I say this from personal experience with an M37 with F/R Lockrights and a BJ40 with rear Detroit and front ARB in a city with icy roads 5.5 months per year.
You wouldn't want to print my opinion of people that try to drive 4WDs in 2WD on ice in order to prove something. On ice, no matter what diffs, 4WD offers slightly better braking (in vehicles without ABS), much better controllability under power and avoids oversteer.

Charlie

 

[JamesDowning]

Bravo! Another way of looking at it:
An open diff is "equal torque"; it supplies equal amounts of torque to each side. If a wheel spins, it is taking almost zero torque so the amount of torque supplied to the non-spinning wheel is almost, but not quite, zero.
A locked diff (selectable or automatic or spool) is "equal speed". Both wheels turn at equal speed regardless of traction.

Charlie

Perfect description. I'll add that with a 4x4, at least two of the 3 diffs (front center and rear) need to have locking ability for the lockers to perform. For instance, if your center and front diffs are open, with a locked rear diff, the possibility exists for one front wheel to spin, and thus lose all torque to the remaining wheels. Even with front and rear lockers, and an open center diff, the possibility exists to lose all torque to either the front or rear wheels.

I'll also add in my 2 cents about auto lockers.

I have the Eaton G80 auto locker. It acts as a limited slip under normal driving conditions. However, if a certain RPM difference exists between half shafts, the clutches activate to lock the left and right together. They deactivate when halfshaft bias and input torque is released from the system (if you take foot off accelerator and both tires have equal footing). I haven't had any trouble with it so far. It has only activated when I've needed it.