Looking at a new Dodge, help me decide!!! (Power Wagon vs Cummins)

2500 Power Wagon or 3500 Cummins

  • Power Wagon

    Votes: 50 44.2%
  • Cummins

    Votes: 43 38.1%
  • buy several tons of bacon!!!!

    Votes: 20 17.7%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .

87GMCJimmy

Adventurer
crismateski- 10-4! Thank you for posting that! That's a really good reference!

We did the whole unspooling to respool under tension about 2 weeks ago. We pulled my truck up a slight uphill with the winch and guided the cable in quite nicely.

Today whilst pulling the posts, we had most of the lower layer (that's what I was trying to convey with darn near a full wrap on the drum) in place. I'd say a good at least half drum's width worth. I believe it was well over 5 wraps.

I guess in future, I will leave the entirety of the bottom layer in place?

I'd actually be curious to see the winch capacity versus layers on the drum specs. I saw a list like that a long time ago and I remember it being a surprisingly large difference.
 

ripperj

Explorer
Mr 87- even I am getting a bit upset about the amount of issues you are having:)
I told my sales guy that if I start having that kind of problem, my truck is going thru the showroom window :)
My 12 2500 non PW has a clunk too, not willing to say driveline until I empty all the gear and tools out and see if it goes away(I'm still in denial :)
 

87GMCJimmy

Adventurer
crawler#976: thanks bro! Good links! I actually am a member over there, I am RAM4ROKS on there!

Ripperj: thank you for the sympathy! I hope that you don't have any issues and that your clunk ends up being a tool or gear, rather than truck issue!

So, here's an update on things:

I called Warn about the ferrule- they said a crimp on battery terminal will be a sufficient replacement so, I will be hunting one tomorrow.

I got the Power Wagon back today- they "loosened all bolts on front suspension. Jounced suspension and retorqued all suspension related hardware. All joints are solid with no play in them. No evidence of bent components or abuse. Test drove truck. No noise heard at this time." I concur, the noises are gone. We shall see for how long.

So, I guess I should plan on retorquing the front suspension quite often, anybody happen to have all the torque specs for the frontend components? Thanks!
 

87GMCJimmy

Adventurer
So, to brighten the mood a little, here's a pic of my truck on the trail last Uwharrie workday, this past sunday. (truck is still stock and the pic is a cell phone pic, sorry!):
image_zpsb4714c87.jpg
 

n2dfire

Observer
Very glad to hear that there has been a resolution with your PW......yeah! Looks like your putting it to good use as well! I am sure your going to be good with the front end, I have no idea on the torq settings, however it is always a good idea to get under there and tighten things up here and there, especially before and after off road trips. So far all is well with my rig as well, running great.
 

87GMCJimmy

Adventurer
n2dfire: Thanks bro! Glad to hear your rig is running right now!!! Mine seems to be doing fine, still has the drivetrain clunk but, seems fine other than that!

I am still undecided on lift, looks like I am going to go with a mixture of Carli and Thuren parts-
Thuren- control arms, trackbar, and shackles
Carli- coils and rear springs (or may keep stock rear springs since it seems that although I will get a better ride with Carlis, I will get more sag when loadsed with them so...?)
Torn on shocks, may keep my stockers for a while, may go Carli Bilsteins, or may go Thuren Kings.I really need to make up my mind, I want my 37s on!!! (or, maybe contemplating cutting the fenders and going with 40s, IDK)

I did finally install my Aluminess sliders! They look good! I also finally got a ferrule so I can put my winch cable back on!
 

n2dfire

Observer
Ok here is the deal.....no cutting and no 40's.....Your not allowed to cut a new Power Wagen its an unwritten rule...Its a Power Wagen. All you really need is 35's...My truck has gone anywhere I pointed it with not problems. I have amazed the JK Rubicon guys sticking with them everywhere size permitting. In fact the jeep guys have a hard time keeping up at times. The 40's are gonna rub everywhere, and cause some major suspension geometry issues. Go with Carli or BDS. for everything, don't mix and match lift kit parts. These lifts are engineered very well, the Springs and Shocks are designed to work together with control arms and such, depending on which maker of lift you use. Its much like OME....springs and shocks go together. Now, Carli is well known and top notch. I have BDS and am extremely happy with it. The whole Power Wagen thing creates new issues over a regular Ram 2500, such as the sway bar disconnect. The amount of flex is massive for a full size truck. It wont like 40's , sure you could do it. The skid plates become a problem and need to be trimmed away from the driveline, which will rub do to the amount of flexing going on. The gearing is going to be another issue with tires that size, lots of wear will occur with the steering system as well. You want to keep this thing reliable, and keep your fuel range in check. The Axels are massive and much of this truck is overkill, to make it stout for the work the truck faces and overlanding people like it for.....Final note, I have retained my rear springs and use Fox Shocks....it has been working very well for me, I have retained the stock payload rating and the truck rides very nice over the highway and performs beautifully off road, slow and fast. Just my two cents.....good luck!
 

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87GMCJimmy

Adventurer
n2dfire: LOL! (about the unwritten rule, I like that!) For some reason, I thought you have 37s? I am at minimum going with 37s as I already have a full set of 5 of them sitting in my garage. As to the mixing and matching- Funnily enough Thuren advised to use Carli coils since he said his would be too stiff. (I thought that was very cool on his part that if he thinks somebody else's part will work better than his for a customer, he will recommend it rather than pushing his own!) For the rear springs, he said I'd likely be best off keeping my stockers if I want to haul heavy loads in my truck as aftermarket ones will be too soft. The only reason I am considering new rear springs is if I have the wheelhop problem that lots of magazines mention is common on the fourth gens (IDK about third gens having this issue or not?) it's not set in stone that I will get new, just a thought. At this point, my likely setup is: Carli coils, Thuren everything else, and maybe Carli leaves later on. But, I am still undecided!

For the 40's rubbing everywhere, control arms, judicious cutting, and careful backspacing selection should deal with that okay, maybe. I really am not worried about body cutting as long as I do not have to cut into the boxed crash box structure portions of the front inner fenders of the truck. (I am assuming that 4th gens have this type of setup?) Sheet metal is not too big a deal to me, as long as the trimming is done cleanly. I shouldn't think there will be any skidplate issues with 40s, only issue I could see is maybe the weight of the tire and wheel combo could cause the suspension to droop farther than it could stock and make the driveshafts contact the skidplates maybe? I could use limit straps if need be. (question for you- what did you do about driveshaft clearance for your lift? On my truck, I am not sure but what I might have to modify one or two of my crossmembers just to run 1" of lift!)

Right now, I have 37s waiting to go on the truck and am looking at 1" of lift which some say will fit them fine and some say won't fit them at all, LOL! The more I look at my breakover angle though, the more I want more lift (which is big $$$$), or more tire (cutting, or both. (big $$$$ AND cutting!) At Uwharrie, I drag belly on every other berm in stock form, it gets old fast!

This weekend I went to Uwharrie Jamboree and wandered around looking at rigs and the ones that really caught my eye were the low COG big tire builds. (I've always preferred that type of build, my last rig was a 3" lifted 37" tired K5 (hence my screen name) that I built and was contemplating 40" tires for (got a great deal on the 37s so, went with them))

Now, I will say, for the Power Wagon, 40s will likely need hydro assist too so, there's another issue. I had hydro assist on the above mentioned K5 so, I am familiar with it. (but, it's more $$$) I am imagining that the axles, inner C's and knuckles of the Power Wagon should be beefy enough though? The unit bearings likely wouldn't like 40s though so, I'd need to go to Spyntech or Dynatrac hub and bearing conversion (which I want eventually anyway) and when I go to one of those, I'll likely want new wheels with less backspacing anyway (since I'd be afraid I'd whack the hubs on rocks with the stock wheels) then, I would need to trim some since 37s won't fit right with aftermarket wheels. (supposedly (depending who one asks) the 37s will fit fine on 1" lift as long as stock wheels are used- the only rubbing will be the control arms) So, if I end up trimming for 37s, why not cut for 40s? (yeah, kinda an overkill all or nothing approach I'm thinking of, I suppose) Only other issue is gears- none available for the rearend last I heard so, I will have a very sluggish truck! But hey, I got used to my JK on 35s with 3.8L and stock gears so, I am sure the Power Wagon won't be that slow, lol!

Last issue- fuel range. I'd like to add a second tank where the stock spare used to reside since my 37" spare won't fit there anyway. I don't know if anyone makes a direct fit tank for it, I am thinking a Ramcharger, Blazer, Bronco, Wagoneer, or F-series truck auxiliary tank may work though. Or it may need to be smaller, like a ZJ, XJ, YJ, or early Bronco tank, IDK. Might even have to be custom but, I am thinking an OEM application of some sort should fit. It's not something I am going to add immediately but, it is something I want to add eventually!

I've only ever seen 3 Power Wagons on 40s- one on Pirate4x4 (a third gen regular cab), Mopar's (third gen) diesel crew cab concept, and Mopar's regular cab (fourth gen) concept. All looked awesome!!! So, I think it would make for one cool build for me to do one. BUT, it's just something I am thinking about, heck the pricepoint of 40s alone may drive it out of the realm of possibility! YIKES!!!! IDK, we shall see what the future holds!

Thanks for your input bro! I will definitely take it under advisement, I am glad to hear a voice of reason! My buddies are gung-ho about it telling me to go for it so, it is good to have some balanced input on this! Thanks!
 

crismateski

American Adventurist
Mercenary Offroad has a 3rd gen on 42" pitbulls. Not a power wagon, but still looks great, and obviousely took a fair amount of cutting. They also make the best looking Dodge bumper I have ever seen. It is what I am hoping to put on mine some day http://mercenaryoffroad.com/bumpers.html
 

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n2dfire

Observer
:)Just wanted to share some photos of the skid plates and drive line issues I had after the lift......These drive lines are made of aluminum and are not the greatest......but you can see in the photos where the drive line rubbed on the armor, I ended up trimming the gastank skid plate a little bit, and actually cut the cross member for the other sliders and lowered the reinforcement......The lift changed the drive-line angles just enough to where the drive line rubbed a little bit......Good luck with the lift, I bet you are eager to get those 37's on there......it will be really nice what ever route you go......Its like the jeep thing though, you change one thing and it snowballs into a few other things.....by the time your done you got a rock buggy:) Post up some pics post lift looking forward to it.
 

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Inline6

Adventurer
A bit off topic, but I finally did some tire size comparisons.

All 37x12.5/17 on 8.5 wide wheels
Left, new GY MTRK, with weight of the jeep on the tire, bought July 2013
Middle, new GY MTR old style' bought in 2009 as a spare then was going to run them when the KMs wore out. GY changed right after I bought them
Right, used BFG KM old style about 1/4" tread, bought in 05 iirc

I did not have my JK on the KN2s at the same location at the same time. I have had them up against the new MTRKs and they appeared about the same size,,minus the tread wear. They were new in 08.

I tried to make sure the straight edge was level. I addd a couple washers under the straight edge to hold it up.
9e38af5f37b508c1ce8a084bfe5d920b_zpsd2ff58fd.jpg


59729306f4785be321533221bd48836e_zps90c50f58.jpg


Height
07e337408508ae75d3d20cf4bce8c686_zps0590761b.jpg

ead0edbf182da427c96c9919cca6ba5a_zps69bb8ee0.jpg



I'm tempted to try some 38s on my dodge, if I could find any larger tires in stock or that will arrive within a week or so.
 

ripperj

Explorer
Mr. 87- if you go with Carli coils and the new control arms ect, will the stock shock have enough travel? Don T said I would get more movement out of the front axel, but I don't recall the increase from stock( will be different between your PW and my non PW)


Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2
 
It all depends on you needs. If you need lockers and a winch then get the power wagon. If you probably won't ever need them, get the Cummins and spend $3,500 on a Carli suspension so it can flex more. I'd say buy a 3rd gen Cummins truck, then dump a bunch of money into it. It'll tow more and get better mileage. And last longer (my '04 has over 300,000 miles on it and runs like a new truck. I do know a guy with an '06 or so 2500 Hemi truck with 300,000+ miles. He's had to replace the fuel pump a couple times but has never had any other problems. So you can get a bulletproof motor, or a really bulletproof motor.
 

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