LR4 to Defender direct comparison questions

[jdbragg]

I know this has been done in a few ways a few different times now, but I've never really seen or heard a direct comparison between driving dynamics of the LR4 and new Defender. Is there anyone here coming directly from a LR4 that could give some opinions. I'm on the fence of building out the LR4 and investing in it, or going for the newer platform for the long-term. Yes, the cargo space is smaller, the rear seat room is better, the tech is newer/fancier, and the engine a bit peppier. What I haven't seen is:

1. On road driving dynamics? My LR4 has a ton of body-roll on the highway driving through the mtns. I'm guessing the Defender is much better at this? Stiffer build = better/stable cornering and driving while being more comfortable?

2. Off-road driving comfort. Are the new dual diaphragm (forgot what it's called exactly - dual stage bags) way more comfortable at offroad height on dirt/gravel/washboard/potholed offroad trails than the LR4? Is it a vast improvement?

3. Terrain response updates? I have a 2016 LR4 with the HD package. I believe the only thing I can't do is activate the locker whenever I want, the program has to do it when it senses slip. Is the new Defender terrain response miles ahead from the LR4 from what you've experienced so far?

4. Towing performance? I've seen 3-4 towing specific videos out there on the Defender, but they mostly compare it's performance to half ton trucks and/or LC200s. Vs. the LR4, it's got better towing capacity, but real world is what I'm interested in. Is it more stable, does it handle better, stop better, handle the load better up and down?

I've watched countless reviews, videos, read articles, searched here and other places, but can't find a few of these types of compare/contrast points.

Last question. For those that went from the LR4 to the Defender: What do you miss about the LR4, and what don't you miss?

Thanks for any insights!!
Cheers

 

[Dogpilot]

A tiny bit of insight. I am in the process of ordering my latest Defender, having sold my '97 in anticipation. I bought an LR4 for my son upon his moving back from Australia. Compared to a 90, the LR4 is roomier if you have kids, 4 doors are great for loading/unloading kids. Not much use offroad though. The Defender 90 seems a bit more maneuverable in tight spaces. Its 3 point turn area is smaller. The programs are actually quite good offload, the lockers you mention, aside from the tactile feel of flipping the switch on my '97 was not so satisfying compared to my Range Rover figuring it all out on its own, quicker and more accurately than my monkey brain could. The programs keep the vehicle in its optimal setting which gives you the best fuel consumption/range off the road. keeping all that stuff activated just burns gas, just seems tougher. Now according to the dealer I am working with, he stated that the programs are very similar, just updated to the vehicle in question. They just will not let me do the test drives off the road.

Now if you need the 4 doors of the LR4, the 110 would be the answer, it is just kind of a really large vehicle. Even my wife felt it was kind of gunboat sized. It is actually longer then my full sized Range Rover, with the spare. So kind of a tight fit in some garages. My son feels the LR4 was decent off road and great in snow. He does a lot of crap road driving, being a mining engineer. The 3rd row seating in both the 110 and the LR4 is best for tiny humans or double amputees. The over the hood view in the Defender is better than the LR4, which I find important as I drive up a lot of washes mapping as a geologist. I also really like the roof rack platform n the Defender, since I make my own for the others to get up on and use my binoculars to follow contacts. Towing, the LR4 did a big long tow from Tucson to Denver with all my Son's stuff in the largest cargo trailer we could rent. The truck had no issues, even at altitude towing. The tow hitch mount on the Defender is a bit better thought out and probably more secure. We had to tighten the LR4 mount halfway through the trip. Body roll, I found the 90 to be quite nice, not rolling much on my tests. The 110 a bit more so in roll. The LR4 had some as well, so I would put it comparable to the 110 in roll. I find the twin turbo mild hybrid to be quite peppy, the 4 a bit less so. The V8, which I just saw this weekend is a real performer, but at the expense of milage/range. It will defiantly win the parking lot drag race to a parking spot. I am thinking I am going to pass on it for the off road part, I like the range of the 6 twin turbo. Washboard, could not say, but as these cars age and things loosen up a bit, plugs will pop out on long washboard runs. My old 97 Defender, which was OBDII, would do that, annoying. My series vehicles never had an issue, just uncaged your eyeballs in the process. There is a magic speed on any washboard where it will suddenly smooth out.

 

[jdbragg]

Thanks! I've got my eye on a 110 in the future, but I'm having trouble thinking what it would be miles better at than my current LR4 other than the infotainment/camera tech, power from the Inline 6, slight increase in ground clearance and offroad angles. Cheers.

 

[DieselRanger]

The biggest differences: the LR4 is much heavier (about 600lbs), and at least in the US it never had the driving dynamics aids the new Defender does. I own a D5, and have test-driven the D5, RRS, and new Defender back to back. The RRS is much more akin to a Porsche Cayenne, the Defender does have a fair bit more body roll in its most "comfort" oriented suspension setting (the airbags just control ride height - not driving dynamics - it has electronic dampers for that), and the D5 is somewhere in between.

Add: the LR4 is quite a bit bigger inside the cargo area. The 110 is much smaller than the D5 in the back, which lost some room vs. the LR4. Wouldn't take the 3-row seating if I could avoid it on the 110.

Personally, the ideal combo to me would be a 110 with the D300 MHEV, which is not currently available in the US. Short of that, I'd take the P400 - it's a great engine.

 

[krick3tt]

It would be great to be able to have one of the LR4 or 5 to compare. Best I can do is compare my LR3 to my previous military vehicles. I did park next to an LR5 not too long ago and the owner said that they also have an LR3 and preferred the interior room of the 3.

 

[XJLI]

There’s a couple videos on powerfuluk’s channel on YouTube doing comparisons.

 

[jdbragg]

Thanks all for the replies. I have also seen the YouTube comparisons and found them to be very good!

To bring this full circle, I finally had the chance last week to drive a 2021 Defender X to comare/contrast these things myself. They've been very hard to find here to get a test drive in!

My quick thoughts reflect alot of what has already been said here I think to a degree.

Pros:
-Engine power/peppiness as compared to the 2016 Supercharged V6
-Handling for me was much improved over the 2016. Still had body roll to make things smooth, but very controlled throughout corners and very predictable. I find my LR4 sometimes leaning a bit more than I expect depending on the corner/situation.
-Tech Pivi pro, the cameras, etc.. are amazing (no bugs in my test drive but well aware there's some lingering issues here)
-Front and back seat leg room
-Overall size I like. Bigger than my LR4 on the outside.

Cons:
-Cargo space - obviously from the LR4 this is well documented everywhere
-Side opening rear door - I didn't realize how much this might affect my ordering/buying decision, but I have realized I would really really miss the tailgate/rear hatch setup on the LR4
- Sight lines - This one was also a big one for me. I remember when I first got the LR4, it was like the first time watching an HD TV... You can see everything, out of every window. The new defender windshield is a lot shorter, and the window glass is a lot smaller in all windows it felt like.
- Build quality/features - I like the rugged styling, but some of it comes off as just cutting corners which is apparent they didn't do in the LR4. Things like flipping the seats down to get a flat load floor. Really easy and well thought out in the LR4 and felt pretty cheap and/or an afterthought in the Defender.


All in all, I still like it, may someday get one, but for now the LR4 is still a really good, capable, large capacity, almost 3 full row vehicle. I'm curious how much different the 130 will be now in the interior. I'm guessing mostly the same except for the usable third row and more cargo capacity.

Cheers!

 

[ThatbloodyRedHeadedSaffer]

Thanks all for the replies. I have also seen the YouTube comparisons and found them to be very good!

To bring this full circle, I finally had the chance last week to drive a 2021 Defender X to comare/contrast these things myself. They've been very hard to find here to get a test drive in!

My quick thoughts reflect alot of what has already been said here I think to a degree.

Pros:
-Engine power/peppiness as compared to the 2016 Supercharged V6
-Handling for me was much improved over the 2016. Still had body roll to make things smooth, but very controlled throughout corners and very predictable. I find my LR4 sometimes leaning a bit more than I expect depending on the corner/situation.
-Tech Pivi pro, the cameras, etc.. are amazing (no bugs in my test drive but well aware there's some lingering issues here)
-Front and back seat leg room
-Overall size I like. Bigger than my LR4 on the outside.

Cons:
-Cargo space - obviously from the LR4 this is well documented everywhere
-Side opening rear door - I didn't realize how much this might affect my ordering/buying decision, but I have realized I would really really miss the tailgate/rear hatch setup on the LR4
- Sight lines - This one was also a big one for me. I remember when I first got the LR4, it was like the first time watching an HD TV... You can see everything, out of every window. The new defender windshield is a lot shorter, and the window glass is a lot smaller in all windows it felt like.
- Build quality/features - I like the rugged styling, but some of it comes off as just cutting corners which is apparent they didn't do in the LR4. Things like flipping the seats down to get a flat load floor. Really easy and well thought out in the LR4 and felt pretty cheap and/or an afterthought in the Defender.


All in all, I still like it, may someday get one, but for now the LR4 is still a really good, capable, large capacity, almost 3 full row vehicle. I'm curious how much different the 130 will be now in the interior. I'm guessing mostly the same except for the usable third row and more cargo capacity.

Cheers!

One thing about the Defender rear seats that LR does a piss poor job of explaining, to get them flat you have to give them a good shove to lock in the flat position.

 

[spikemd]

Pretty good run down of the trucks. I have an LR3 and have driven my mother in laws LR4 V8 many miles. Engines, no comparison between the 4.4 and the 5.0. 5.0 so much smoother and way more power. I have a P300 110 and it isn't up to the 5.0 in power. I also have a L322 5.0 supercharged which is incredible to drive. But I waned the smaller less complicated engine and the 18 inch wheels. My 110 is for trails and already half of the miles are on trips and dirt.

110 cargo space is my biggest gripe. Just not enough when compared to LR. I thought I was going to keep my 110 for a very long time, but I will be upgrading to a 130 when it comes out. 2300 miles into Baja with 2 adults and 3 kids was challenging. Couldn't have done it without my Overland Pros Anza 2000 where all 5 of us slept and left sleeping gear up top. I really hope the 130 gives us the extra room in back without looking frumpy.

I have towed my 6000 lb boat and trailer and it surprisingly tows well with the smaller engine. Guarantee the p400 would be smoother, but I'm not towing all the time. I actually think I would get better gas mileage with the P400 as I am averaging 12 to 14 mixed diving. Like the Lr3/4, I get better gas mileage with the bigger engine.

Utility, interior, much prefer the Defender. Great mix of form and function, rugged materials. The shelf holds of ton of stuff while overlanding. Interior cleans easily from dust and overall just works. My wife prefers her L322 range rover as it is definitely more luxurious eventhough it is 10 years older.

Only options I got where both offroad packs for elec rear diff, tow pack and heated front seats. I didn't want a sunroof as I have a full rack and have seen many sunroof on LR3/4s broken.

Offroad, it soaks up bumps and washes on fire roads like no other. Last weekend on some bigger steps and rocks, it never hesitated and I watched the diffs lock on and off constantly. The offroad cameras are actually quite useful negotiating turns around rocks and being able to see exactly where the front tires are.

 

[jdbragg]

Very good comparisons indeed. I'll throw another one in the mix now since I am completely indecisive haha! I have started to look into the Disco-5 now that it's been slightly updated with the P360, PiviPro/cameras, etc..etc... Seems to add back in a bit more of the luxury portion of Land Rovers with most of the same offroad tech available in the Defender. The only real "problems" with the D5 I think are:

- I wish they had put the same P400 tune into the D5
- The looks... it gets compared to a Ford Explorer a lot.
- Offroad geometry and ground clearance vs. the Defender.

It seems if one can get around the looks, it may be a better deal at the moment.

Perhaps like many others, I'll be very excited for the 130 to be released...

 

[SkiWill]

I have a P300 110 and it isn't up to the 5.0 in power...

I am averaging 12 to 14 mixed diving. Like the Lr3/4, I get better gas mileage with the bigger engine.

Really? 12-14 mpg is similar to what I get in my 5.0 2012 LR4. If the P300 can't match the power of the 5.0, I'd hope that it would get better mileage than the 5.0? How much do you think the RTT contributes to those mileage numbers?

 

[XJLI]

Really? 12-14 mpg is similar to what I get in my 5.0 2012 LR4. If the P300 can't match the power of the 5.0, I'd hope that it would get better mileage than the 5.0? How much do you think the RTT contributes to those mileage numbers?

12-14??? I get 17 around town and 22-23 highway in my LR4. Maybe that will drop 1-2 mpg a the new tires I just put on. How much extra stuff is bolted to your truck?

 

[SkiWill]

12-14??? I get 17 around town and 22-23 highway in my LR4. Maybe that will drop 1-2 mpg a the new tires I just put on. How much extra stuff is bolted to your truck?

I have a Tactical 4x4 front and rear bumper and a Frontrunner Slimline roof rack with a wind fairing and Eezi-Awn Swift awning. I have 265/65R18 Cooper AT3 tires and no lift rods. EPA rating is 13 city and 17 highway for the 5.0 V8 LR4 from the factory. I occasionally have a RTT or a couple of dry bags on the rack if taking the whole family. Millions of miles tracked on 5.0 V8 LR4s on www.fuelly.com show an average in the 12-15 mpg range as well.

 

[RoverTony]

Came across this thread while searching around for comparison updates. I don’t understand the fuel consumption either. Had an LR4 V8, went back to an ‘08 LR3. Stock for stock hwy was in the 19-21 mpg on both. LR3 now with BFG 32s, full rack, 4 Hellas, rear hella, and an awing… 17-19 mpg hwy depending on how flat. Mountains, in 3rd much more, will be 15-16mpg. We also have a ‘21 RRS P300, mixed driving over last ~11K on the odometer is 22.3 mpg (I went out to check). On one flat ~150 mile trip we achieved 33 mpg (mostly two lanes in the 60-70 mpg range). Beyond all the other awesomeness of the RRS as a SUV, the mpg’s is one of the highlights I tell ppl inquiring about it because most don’t expect it to get sedan like mpg performance. Waiting to see what electric hybrid engine options come out, I like the concept 50 mile range on all electric, perfect for most around town trips And then mild hybrid range for road trips.

I was looking at the P300 D5 but I recall the roof load rating was under 200 lbs while 110 is ~600lbs. I really do like the overhead opening tailgate (with the flip down bench) vs side swing door. I wish they designed the 130 with a split tailgate like the LR3/4 and put a full size spare tucked up underneath the rear of it.