M416 Build

[ntsqd]

I some what doubt that the trailer's use would be as extreme, but on the desert race truck we have sheared off G8's bolted through mild steel. I'm not a fan of G8's. There are better choices that are not too difficult to obtain. F911's are one good option where a hex headed bolt is desired.
http://www.f911.com/fore2b.html Their specs are pretty close to that of 1960 Series fasteners, aka "Socket Head Cap Screws" or "Allen Bolts", and that makes them more ductile than the G8 spec while still having a higher tensile strength.

Static analysis of the trailing arms can only reasonably be done in stages. Setting up the analysis for the total is why FEA was invented. Still, I think that a Shear-Moment for the side view and then the rear view of the loading could give you a rough idea of what is going on. A wet thumb in the wind approach to addressing the dynamics would be to factor the forces by 3. It's not a race car, a final, ultimate Factor of Safety of 1.1000 coupled with the barest minimum possible weight isn't the goal.

Andre, that book that I've tediously mentioned so much in the past has a shear-moment diagram exercise in it for designing trailer frames. It can easily be used to analyze the trailing arms.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Andre, if they're Grade 8, I doubt they were the problem.

NTSQD, I'd love to see the details on those failures. I often hear the stories about Grade 8's failing because they were "not ductile", but never details. Those F911 look like nice bolts, pretty much just standard fastners made to metric 12.9 standards.

 

[wyorunner]

I have just read the entirety of this thread over the past week. I recently bought an M416, waiting to pick it up from getting blasted and painted. But this trailer is amazing, and inspring for what i can do with mine. great build and good luck with beefing up the frame.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Hi guys, I have plenty of old pics to post, mostly from April and May so I thought I'd post them up. The trailer has made two trips to Moab so far and despite the bending in the frame and the repair / realignment I need to do it really did wonderfully...

First I made an adjustable height pintle hitch mount. I've used pintles before. The mount itself was relatively inexpensive at a local supply house called NPS (where I also got the gas struts for the lid cheaply). I get almost no clunking with the setup. It is very nice. I have read Martyn's great posts about pintle versus the AT style setup. I agree the AT and Lock N Roll is superior. But this did just fine...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Here was how I did the electrical system. I posted this thread eons ago all about trailer wiring. It was complicated with the yellow light as discussed earlier. I can up with a really neat wiring scenario. This is months ago and all off the top of my head so I hope it works. It's designed for the 7 pole trailer wiring mount. I also kept it expandable as recommended by Martyn for additional wiring inputs as required. The box can also double as battery storage. And finally, if I feel up to it I can also add a second plug and a switch with a relay to switch the wiring between a "regular" car and my Toyota's wiring. Or, you can use it as is and everything works other than the brake lights illuminate yellow. If I switched the bulbs to red it would solve everything which would be the easier route...

I don't have a ton of good pics but the ammo can is permanently mounted and is pretty clean and I'm excited about it...

Wiring through the frame...

Hole through the mesh for the wiring...

A bushing for the wiring made from an old shock bushing. I notched it with the cutoff wheel to have it stay permanently and provide weatherproofing for the box.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Now... Here is the bad news... As much as I really like the trailer. And it looks just so damn cool... Priorities have "already changed" for me and Carrie. As much as I want to hold on to it indefinitely is 1) I don't have a good place to store it inside and this is already starting to becoming a hassle... 2) is Carrie and I already have a couple camping contraptions including our old '77 Ford Van Brown Sugar, we also have an adorable '72 10' camper that I don't think Carrie will ever let me sell so instead we've been investing in it (solar, etc). 3) Carrie pretty much never comes with me off road mostly because she gets freaked out easily (and that is alright). So for me only it really is a complete utter excess. I also only own pickups or my FJ55 Land Cruiser wagon so with 2 kids we might have someday we'll be fine. 4) For years I slept on a tarp and I have plenty of good tents so I think I'm back to this route, which is one of minimalism...

So it's such a bummer but I hate to say it but once I fix and re-align the independent arms of the trailer it will probably go up for sale. And that is OK, as Clay (Rhino) says I have "thrill of the build" syndrome and I really really enjoyed this build and this project. Also someday I might do another one, a smaller one out of aluminum as mentioned and probably a solid axle with leafs/airbags or even a 3 link airbagged... If needed, and start over again...

Here are some photos of it in action from the Moab trip, down one side of the Colorado to Mexican Hat / Valley of the Gods, and back up the other side. When I have the time I'll post up a big writeup somewhere on the site about it and it. The first Moab trip specifically for me was just epic. The best Moab trip I've ever had, hands down, also 1000 miles total with more than half off pavement which was killer...

The day before I left, prepped and trailer almost fully loaded with gear, 20 gallons of fuel and 10 gallons of water (all total overkill). This is at the Heber City recycling center where my shop is...

En route, headed south... Mtn Bike in tow as well in the bed of the truck

First siting of Lake Powell...

Getting a good gulp of Orange juice in Goblin Valley, Utah...

One problem I encountered. My thule mounts were weak. When I really rallied hard, about 30-50 mph off road, the trailer followed me & my baja style suspension pickup (lots of uptravel) **everywhere** -it was really neat. But once in a blue moon I'd look back and the tent had popped off the gutter. I need to use a heavier duty mount next time...

I followed Kurt Williams from Cruiser Outfitters and Brian Passey from Wasatch Cruisers through where the overnight run was for Cruise Moab '09, he big annual Land Cruiser event. Here is Kurt's FJ40 and trailer at Lone Soldier campground in San Rafael Swell. Access here was largely off road and I continued another couple hours off road almost to Hanksville... It was a wonderful trip and again I was all grins with the trailer performing as well as it did...

Close up also at Lone Soldier campground...

You can see how the plug inserted into the ammo box. I designed it "symetrical" so the plug is like an extension cord that goes into the box. It doesn't matter which side you put on what side and you can completely disconnect it for storage

Enjoy guys... That's it for now until I fix & re-align the suspension and again unfortunately get it ready for sale...

Cheers, A

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Bummer to hear its for sale but I can understand given your apparatus of vehicles (go finish your FJ55 would ya!). Hope it goes to a good home, its a great trailer with a ton of custom work, somebody would have a killer trailer right off the bat!

 

[Mayne]

Andre,
I'm curious about how the tongue has worked out, as I am looking to extend mine. I like reusing the material thats already there, but I don't want to compramise safety and strength.

Mayne

 

[R_Lefebvre]

or my FJ55 Land Cruiser wagon so with 2 kids we might have someday we'll be fine.

I strongly suggest that when you have the kids, you will find this not to be true. Not unless you have a huge roof rack and load up there. But, I think a trailer is a better idea than that. You won't get a family of 4 worth of gear in the back of an SUV.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Hi Rob,

Definitely noted... One thing though is me and my brother and old man trekked and safaried through Africa in about '85/'86 a Suzuki Samurai, plus a guide. When they came out in the US he was so impressed that he bought one here (for I believe a mere $5G or something like that). We always had ful size Jeep Wagoneers and Cherokees before that. So that was our car I think well through the early 90's. I figure if he and the two of us made it work than I can make it work with a Land Cruiser wagon. I do hear you though and Shaharam on the ih8mud.com board has excellent comments about a RTT and vehicle and tying them together IE not being able to leave easily related to your family and errands or day trips because your car is your home.

Mayne,
the tongue extension had been phenomenal, no complaints at all. In my case I used what steel I had or could acquire for not too much. I would probably use a 3 x 2 or a channel again to reduce weight but again it turned out wonderfully.

One thing though is if using an independent or custom suspension arm I would just fab a new frame from scratch if I were to do it again. I would also use 2x2 steel to increase ground clearance an inch...

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I sometimes think about that... is it that times changed and we have different expectations for what to bring on camping trips? (and I'm not trying to change your mind, just discussing) I look at my loaded truck, and try to figure out where the fat is but... I just can't find it. Ok, I have one of those Coleman Hot Water on Demand things. No doubt, that's a luxury. Is a camping stove a luxury? No. Air mattress? No. Sleeping bags? No. Eezi Up to shelter the eating area? Ok, that's a luxury, but I wouldn't give it up. The lack of it has ruined plenty of camping trips.

Some people really go light. Guy here at work went camping with a minivan, folded the seats, through in an air mattress or something, some comforters from home, clothes, food, and a pot. They cooked over the campfire, no stove, nothing.

Anywho, just rambling.

 

[Mayne]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I sometimes think about that... is it that times changed and we have different expectations for what to bring on camping trips? (and I'm not trying to change your mind, just discussing) I look at my loaded truck, and try to figure out where the fat is but... I just can't find it. Ok, I have one of those Coleman Hot Water on Demand things. No doubt, that's a luxury. Is a camping stove a luxury? No. Air mattress? No. Sleeping bags? No. Eezi Up to shelter the eating area? Ok, that's a luxury, but I wouldn't give it up. The lack of it has ruined plenty of camping trips.

Some people really go light. Guy here at work went camping with a minivan, folded the seats, through in an air mattress or something, some comforters from home, clothes, food, and a pot. They cooked over the campfire, no stove, nothing.

Anywho, just rambling.

It can be done. I spent a week one deer season sleeping in the back of a chevy truck w/ no shell, no mattress, and no shade in the afternoon. I won't do it again.
Thanks for the info on the tongue. I think that is the direction I'm headed.

Mayne

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I sometimes think about that... is it that times changed and we have different expectations for what to bring on camping trips? (and I'm not trying to change your mind, just discussing) I look at my loaded truck, and try to figure out where the fat is but... I just can't find it. Ok, I have one of those Coleman Hot Water on Demand things. No doubt, that's a luxury. Is a camping stove a luxury? No. Air mattress? No. Sleeping bags? No. Eezi Up to shelter the eating area? Ok, that's a luxury, but I wouldn't give it up. The lack of it has ruined plenty of camping trips.

Some people really go light. Guy here at work went camping with a minivan, folded the seats, through in an air mattress or something, some comforters from home, clothes, food, and a pot. They cooked over the campfire, no stove, nothing.

Anywho, just rambling.

Yes, excellent comments there... The big problem with the trailer is I'm really too many years ahead of when I need it. I built it out of lust not logic, and that's OK, but Kurt was questioning it particularly in the beginning (saying "what do you need a trailer for") and was right the whole time... I'm 30 going on 25 mentally in a lot of ways and I'm all for comfort too, tents take time to set up, and maybe I'll miss the RTT, but really I was quite happy rolled in a tarp on the ground. My friends at Cruise Moab this year were saying "boy Andre you sure have moved up!" LOL..

One thought was get a RTT and switch it between vehicles. I might build another full size rack with a RTT and make it adaptable between all my trucks and hang it from the ceiling when not in use using pulleys. That would work excellently and would do the trick as well... Drop it down, tighten the rack mounts to the rain gutters or other mounting points, and off we go

Fabrication... A brutal affliction...

 

[fj40fax]

Wish I was afflicted as you...

 

[Box Rocket]

Bummer Andre. I'll be sad to see you get rid of it. If you feel like selling your tent separately, let me know.

Oh yeah, and thanks for some great ideas for me trailer.