Making a ifting roof on a 110

[wuntenn]

Resurrecting this thread for anyone interested in 'evolution! The lifting roof I built has been great - I found an add-on rear tent thats been good to use with it and we've used it as a family with great success. However in marginal conditions - bearing in mind I live beyond 56°N latitude (same as Hudson Bay and Kodiak Island) - when the weather is rough or in winter the lifting roof can be less than practical. When the temp is low you can get condensation forming on the inside, and when the wind blows its very noisy, and 'flicks' the condensation off onto the inside (and your sleeping bag) and my son has had a few terrified nights when he thought it would blow away when we were in bed at 2am and a gale sprang up.

So....I pondered options such as a set of external covers made from truckside material with insulation - very bulky to store and pig to fasten on. Temporary hard sides I can fasten on when the roof is up - too hard to store and an even bigger pain to fit. Internal panels that would fit behind the fabric - hard to store and install on the inside.

Then I thought - the solution might be hard sides with insulation and windows bolted to the existing roof and coming down to the 'waist' of the 110. As I mulled this over I met a Swiss couple in Scotland with their home-made hard sided lifting roof camper and that determined for me it was doable!



What are the problems this creates?

Back door - how does it open?
Sealing it - in the open and closed positions so wet is kept out when parked and driving?
Weight - will it be too heavy?
Lifting it - how wil I get it up with the additional weight?
Cost?

I made a few mock ups using cardboard scale models, and some computer drawings and it looked feasible.

So I bit the bullet and bought some 19mm box alloy and have set to in earnest. Stay tuned for slow progress as I work my through this journey into the unknown! As before I have no workshop so will be doing all of the work outside on the drive. I DO have a good friend who runs an alloy welding and fabrication business so the main alloy welding and folding will be done by him, and Ill do anything involving steel. For the alloy I'll find ways to jig stuff up and then cart it down to his shop and he'll weld it or fold it for me.

The drawings at top should give you some idea of where this idea will hopefully be heading....

 

[Backroad Explorer]

Can hardly wait for this New Build!!
Pics of the cardboard models Please.

 

[wuntenn]

Well Brian the cardboard proved less useful than simple paper! So I ended up with this instead, which was made by taking a photo of the 110 side on and then tracing it on the computer screen (I could see the screen through the white paper!) with key points marked to establish accurate measurments:



Problems to overcome:

Existing LR back door - how does it open?* Decided that the lifting roof assembly should have a back door in it, slightly wider/taller than the existing door. This will be top hung and with gas struts will be able to be lifted (when roof is in lowered position) and easily access existing back door to get inside the back. It should also be able to be opened when the roof is lifted to the up position to allow big views and lots of fresh air when the conditions allow.

*Problem this creates: spare wheel carrier will be in the way. Solution: make wheel carrier 'swing-away' and mount it on brackets to move it a few inches rearwards to allow the lifting section to come down behind the spare wheel.



Sealing it - how to do this in both the open and closed positions so wet is kept out when parked and driving? The long diagonal line on the mock up drawing going from top front to lower rear is a crucial aspect. Everything above that line is 'inside' when roof is lifted so needs to be kept dry/clean. Everything below it is 'external' when roof lifted so can get damp. I had a choice here - make the lifting section same as the Swiss version in pic in previous tweet. That creates problems as I have side windows and cargo track each side that will get in the way, and hard to seal. Solution: make the lifting section more like a flatbed camper with its frame come down to the mid section of the 110 and be able to seal it along that line horizontally, and up the side of the door vertically and then above the door horizontally. So in effect everything below that horizontal line is 'redundant' it does not do anything in the lifted position and exists only to allow the whole thing to seal when lowered and driving. Weight penalty to do this was minimal so that was my route.

So the diagonal when in the lowered position acts as an internal weather 'stop' for anything that might blow in, and when lifted sits parallel with the lower section of the existing roof and allows a seal to be made to keep the interior draught free*. (more on this later as this is a crucial aspect to consider)

I decided to use asymmetrical Z section material to form the door frame inner/outer


Weight - will it be too heavy? Existing roof is just on the limit of comfortable lifting for me so the added section will be a bit much to safely lift (and I'm over 60 and not getting younger!). However even with new additions it is still not destabilising the vehicle as the weight is carried evenly along the length and down the sides and is still within safe operating limits.

Lifting it: - so how will I get it up with the additional weight? 12V heavy duty Linear Actuators. I found company that can supply very long actuators with a sync box to control the operation ensuring accurate and consistent lifting. These can provide 175lbs push each and are 1M long.

One major issue: the existing lifting roof can open as high as is practically needed, however the addition of hard sides means I am limited to lifting it only as far up as the distance to the 'waist' of the 110. This ,means reducing the interior lifting height by approximately 6 inches. I did some experimenting and it still allows me (6 foot tall) to easily stand up and move through inside the back, and when in sleeping mode with internal bed platform extended I can still get up and although 'cosier' will be fine for sleeping in comfort. Also becasue the roof goes through an arc the lowered 'shapoe' needs to have a slopiong rear angle to allow the back end to be in the vertical plane when lifted.



Cost? Alloy material is reasonable, a couple of sheets of 1.2mm alloy, several lengths of 19mm box, thin plywood & insulation and some method of fastening the sides onto the existing roof - I decided on heavier gauge U channel inverted and bolted to the sides of the lifting roof. Only real significant cost is the actuators which will be £500+ and some kind of windows. So I figured about £1200 in total or roughly $1500 all in.

 

[wuntenn]

Next stage was cutting up and tacking together the external frames for the two sides (19mm box alloy). Not having a properly flat surface to work on created some problems, some obvious which I worked around, others that only revealed themselves later. But I'd considered some of the ways that this might go pear-shaped so had a few strategies to cope further down the road. Once I'd got Steve the welder on the job the frames were quickly fully welded up and I could try them in place on the vehicle






.

 

[wuntenn]

Next job was sheeting the frames with 1.2mm alloy. Started cutting by hand, strained my hand (!) and ended up using the angle grinder as it was soooo mucch easier.










My 'workshop' boasts such luxuries as leafy vegetation, full 360 degree illumination and recycling wheely bins to work on top of - all the conveniences of the modern workplace....







Next job was to remove the cappings along both sides and replace with a flat piece of alloy which is where the roof will come down to and seal when completed. Grinder is your friend...






And that got me to this point. The odd gap at the end aft of the solar panel will be made into an awning basket - an alloy frame into which I can fold and store the rear canvas awning that attaches to the back of the van and creates a huge covered area. Its a perfect storage spot for it and will mean theres no strange 'step' in the roof line.

 

[wuntenn]

After a load of discussion with the supplier I decided to go for a pair of 12V linear actuators linked by a sync box to ensure consistent and equal lifting of the pair. I needed to fabricate a pair of brackets, one for each side, bolted through the rear body and floor to strengthen it to accommodate actuators, but also to enable the spare wheel carrier bolted to the outside to have a substantial mounting point when I refit it. Combined load rating of the pair is in the region of 350-400lbs push and 300 lbs pull.

Pics should be self explanatory:

 

[HAF]

nice

 

[wuntenn]

Next stop spare wheel re-siting - the lowered roof neeeds to go behind the spare wheel so my guess was a chunk of steel box on the bottom and a U shape at top would suffice to allow it move back far enough so that was added.







My mate Steve folded a piece of alloy using a template I made and I used that to form the rear upper roof end and it was 'fettled' to fit:



I then cut up and drilled some L section to make an edge. This will form a 'basket' area to store an awning tarp and can have bungee cords to hold it down. Its also well out of the way and the additional L sections make the rear look a bit more in keeping with and 'part of' the rest of the roof.



And after a mad session of open air spray painting etch primer (waste of time) and some rollering in a neighbours garage (better but hard to see what you're doing!) I ended up rollering stuff outside and shooing the bugs away before they got embedded in the paint. The etch rollered wonderfully and dried fast. The 1K enamel top coat was a bit more testing - dries too fast and needs a lot opf care, but I managed.



Here's my woodshed paint booth:





The above pic is showing the pieces on the vehicle temporarily - I need to fit the windows, various hidden guides and seals and a load of other stuff before I can permanently fasten them. Still got a way to go but its taking shape.

 

[sydneyman]

Thank you for updating! That looks incredible!

 

[wuntenn]

Thanks for reading!

Its getting there! The pic above was a dry run with panels attached. I'm currently fabricating the seals that will go around the perimeter (to seal when its lowered). There's a point where I'll have all the bits pre-fabricated and then its just an assembly job. My problem is EVERY aspect of this has to be done so I can use the vehicle daily, which has necessitated some careful planning how stuff will fit.

I'm hoping to get the sides/back on before winter sets in in earnest, but we'll see!

Currently preparing the alloy angle pieces that will support flat plates against which the edges of the lifting roof will seal. Thats them on the van in the pic painted yellow (etch primer) along the door edge and top (not fittted along the side yet). This was a 'technical' problem. Basically I need a flat 'lip' against which the lowered roof can seal. If I use a single piece of angle'd alloy I'd need to cut the outer edge of it to size - a really hard thing to do outside with a jigsaw and keep the cut straight. Solution? Use a piece of angle alloy thats smaller than I need, and then put a wider piece on it thats cut to fit the desired width, but crucially the cut will be done on the inner edge of the flat piece so its against the van side and will have a bead of mastic along it to seal but also hide the cut. That leaves (hopefully) a nice clean machined edge facing outwards. Thjis apprach also has one other crucial benefit - it enables adjustment of the seal in two planes, in/outwards and up/downwards, which might be really useful to adjust the seal as the whole thing settles. The seals are neoprene so there might be some adjustment needed to ensure it fits all around.

 

[wuntenn]

Update on progress:

Finally got the sides attached. What a bloody nightmare 6 months of messing about with them. Put them on, drill a hole, measure. Take them off. Think about stuff. Figure out where a doohickey will go, put them back on, measure, take them off. Repeat literally dozens of times. But each time inching forwards a fraction. Major nightmare was doiscovering that the van is not square - it apparently leans to the driver side! However my construction methods had deliberately built-in error correction strategies so I was able to accommodate the difference - a keen eye will notice the slight lean to one side, but tbh on a 30 year old LR I'm not really fussed about it.





Test jig for strut operation and fitting location.




Fitting the back door.




Fitting handle




Rod latch to lock back door



Neoprene seals



More neoprene seals.



Test assembly and my garage roof (a tarpaulin!).






Rear awning carrying space - used to store the fabric awning that slides into the rear Keder/P strip (which doubles as a gutter as well.)

My partner was away for the whole of February so I took the sides and back section indoors into the hallway and spare room and so was able to comfortably (in the warm and dry) install the windows and seal them, fit the back door, stainless hinges, gas struts and rod latch and get them all working. SO basically I had all the components complete(ish).

Working out where the gas struts would go was a bit of a challenge so to save me drilling holes everywhere as I 'guessed' it I decided to make a wooden jig and experimented, and it worked second try, so I was able to transfer the dimensions to the alloy and it worked beautifully.



Then neoprene seals fitted and the latch adjusted to pull tight.

Anyway, finally got it to the point where I thought it would all work, and the linear actuators appeared to be able to lift the combined weight (I was a bit worred about that), so went for a dry run, bolted it all together and made many holes, and it all looked pretty good.

 

[wuntenn]

So, pulled it apart again and started assembling in earnest. I'd decided that instead of copious mastic I would seal the sections together at the rear corners and the long seal on the side of the roof with 2mm self-adhesive neoprene strip, then it would be easy to dismantle should I have to. Then simply put a thin smear of sealant down the joint onto the neoprene.

And thats what I did, lots of bolts, and cursing, as the usual gremlins made their presence felt, but it all went together. Once that was done it was attach lower seals so that when the roof is lowered there's something to stop water blowing in and making the sides damp - water cant actually get into the vehicle because the original gasket sealing the roof is still in place, so its really only to keep the inner surface of the lifting sides dry. So now, hopefully, it is fully sealed.



















Alloy Keder strip rail that the awngin attaches to but which doubles as a gutter to stop ingress of water to the back door seals beneath it.

I took it out yesterday for a maiden voyage and got up to 60mph with no creaks, grumbles or rattles and nothing fell off. I could feel the wee bit extra weight but its not drastic, a few extra pounds pressure in the rear airbags will fix that.






I'm now inside fitting the seals along the sides and back which is a bit of a faff and I'm not entirely certain how I'll do that but I have a few ideas, but good thing is I can do it inside the van in the dry so hopefully not too terrible a job - not like the winter work standing outisde with the arctic blasts rattling my underpants.





Also - the way to access the back is to swing away the wheel, lift the whuffling gas strutted exterior door, then open the original LR back door. And the added bonus is that when the roof is lifted the top hung exterior door on the lifting section allows the whole end of the lifting roof to open for fresh air and views!




I was really pleased that the wide open upper door appears to have worked! It was a solution to the lifting 'shell' interfering with the original LR back door opening, and once I gave it some consideration I thought 'well might as well see if I can get it to work in the roof-up position'. Getting the angles right so the original LR back door doesn't hit it was interesting. I'm now trying to get seals figured out so the bottom of the external lifting door seals when its lifted but also seals agasint the old door when lowered. More of that another time.

Weight of the total thing is about the same or slightly less than a roof rack and roof tent. A typical large roof tent is 80kg and a decent 110 roof rack around 50 or 60kg. so around 140kg. The sides and rear I've just built are 60kg and the roof 70kg so 130kg total. Crucial things is a good chunk of this weight is carried down low. Its also made the interior a lot quieter when driving.

 

[bigKlittlecar]

Absolutely stunning work!!!


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[wuntenn]

Absolutely stunning work!!!


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Thanks! Bit of a make-it-up-as-I-go-along job but it seems to be taking the shape* I envisaged!


*given I was adapting the existing thing I'd built and trying to avoid too much of a frankenstein look!

 

[ITTOG]

That new top looks like a great improvement. Good work and thanks for sharing.