Manual or Auto...THAT is the question.
- Thread starter JJBiggs
- Start date
James86004
Expedition Leader
Depends on the situation. Off the pavement, manuals usually have the advantage of having more gears to choose from, and 1st gear is usually lower, so it is nicer for hill descents. Autos are better for rock crawling or other situations where you would have to feather the clutch a little in a manual.
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
Rock crawling with a manual and proper gearing is so much nicer than with an automatic (regardless of gearing in the auto).
No need to smell a burning clutch...just know how to use it. An automatic with a [fully] manual valve body does give more options...but I still find it much easier to control the vehicle (particularly wheel speed) with a manual. The key here is the proper gearing. I know I keep saying that, but it is true. Even on 4.0 and 4.5 rated trails....I will take the manual + proper gearing over the automatic (been there, done that). In fact, I would be more inclined to choose a manual transmission if the harder trails were in the picture, than if they were not.
But in the end...the big picture...anything is better than nothing. As long as you get to go out and enjoy it, if it makes you happy, then who cares? Go, enjoy, be happy.
No need to smell a burning clutch...just know how to use it. An automatic with a [fully] manual valve body does give more options...but I still find it much easier to control the vehicle (particularly wheel speed) with a manual. The key here is the proper gearing. I know I keep saying that, but it is true. Even on 4.0 and 4.5 rated trails....I will take the manual + proper gearing over the automatic (been there, done that). In fact, I would be more inclined to choose a manual transmission if the harder trails were in the picture, than if they were not.
But in the end...the big picture...anything is better than nothing. As long as you get to go out and enjoy it, if it makes you happy, then who cares? Go, enjoy, be happy.
michaelgroves
Explorer
IMO, an auto for expeditions (long driving days), but a manual on extremely technical trails. (I find a clutch gives better "feel" than left-foot braking against the throttle on an auto).
Autos need very very good cooling for desert travel, in thick sand. But they make life a lot easier!
Autos need very very good cooling for desert travel, in thick sand. But they make life a lot easier!
UrbanCummin
Diesel Mechanic
All it will ever come down to is which one do you prefer?, you can build up either one to be nukeproof. That being said most stock auto's suck big time. But a well built auto is a sweet thing. All my dedicated off road trucks had well built auto's, not haveing a clutch is one less thing to worry about when doing very technical sections.
If any of you follow the top truck challange you will find usualy 8 or 9 of the 10 truck are auto's, and keep in mind these are usually top of the line off road machines. Auto's can handle a lot, just keep em cool and keep any water out.
JJBiggs
Supporting Sponsor | SEES
Wow. I knew this was a deep subject. But I did not expect 3 pages. Thank you all for the fantastic insight. As I have mentioned, I am leaning towards the Rubi. The Taco is no doubt a fantastic truck. As one of said "...the Rubi is calling me."
good stuff. -Biggs
good stuff. -Biggs
Overdrive
Adventurer
Wow, no one has said "Autos are for wimps" or "real men only drive manuals". I'm impressed!
I was a steadfast manual guy until a year ago with the purchase of an automatic in a Dodge diesel (48RE). It shifts firm, no mushy-ness at all. It has a factory external cooler that is HUGE, almost the size of an AC condenser. I really like hearing the "music" of the engine and auto trans working in concert--something that I don't sense with my manual trans version of the truck. However, that music would be missing with a gas motor...
Autos have come a long way in the last 10 years; I am torn as to which would be best for expeditioning. One could carry a spare battery for the no-push-start issue.
I was a steadfast manual guy until a year ago with the purchase of an automatic in a Dodge diesel (48RE). It shifts firm, no mushy-ness at all. It has a factory external cooler that is HUGE, almost the size of an AC condenser. I really like hearing the "music" of the engine and auto trans working in concert--something that I don't sense with my manual trans version of the truck. However, that music would be missing with a gas motor...
Autos have come a long way in the last 10 years; I am torn as to which would be best for expeditioning. One could carry a spare battery for the no-push-start issue.
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78Bronco
Explorer
I have been pleasantly surprised by the auto in my Pajero. I've always prefered manual for the sake of having control. The Paj tranny has three modes (Power/Auto/Hold), I can start off in second gear and it shifts steady. It's a dream to drive
Thanks Mitsubishi
Maybe a little lower gaering for enhanced compression braking would be my only wish.
Thanks MitsubishiMaybe a little lower gaering for enhanced compression braking would be my only wish.
chasespeed
Explorer
My last truck, was a 7.3 with a 4R100(4spd auto). I burned that trans up in short order... through no fault of the transmission....
This time around, I opted to put a NV4500 behind the Cummins....I tow and drive alot, and the cost to upgrade the transmission to hold my power, would have been a 5-6k.......compared with buying the trans 1500, and adding billet input and mainshafts, and a STRONG clutch.... I saved more money to put into the turbo, pump work, etc... Only issue, is sometimes feathering the clutch is NOT an option.... its TOO grabby.
In MY case, that is a trade-off I am willing to live with......
Chase
This time around, I opted to put a NV4500 behind the Cummins....I tow and drive alot, and the cost to upgrade the transmission to hold my power, would have been a 5-6k.......compared with buying the trans 1500, and adding billet input and mainshafts, and a STRONG clutch.... I saved more money to put into the turbo, pump work, etc... Only issue, is sometimes feathering the clutch is NOT an option.... its TOO grabby.
In MY case, that is a trade-off I am willing to live with......
Chase
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
Lots of good posts here... Don't forget to consider the 'which trans in which car' specifics.
I don't care for the new Tacoma 6-speed manual (how it shifts, clutch feel, etc.) but love the 5-speed auto in the new Toyotas. I did really like the 6-speed manual in my TJ (assume it is the same 6-sp in the JK) and have heard lots of complaining about the TJ/JK 4-sp auto.
I don't care for the new Tacoma 6-speed manual (how it shifts, clutch feel, etc.) but love the 5-speed auto in the new Toyotas. I did really like the 6-speed manual in my TJ (assume it is the same 6-sp in the JK) and have heard lots of complaining about the TJ/JK 4-sp auto.
saburai
Explorer
proper gearing?
This is a great thread!
What would you consider deep enough or proper gearing for a XJ (my rig)running a AX-15 and 31" tires?
This is a great thread!
What would you consider deep enough or proper gearing for a XJ (my rig)running a AX-15 and 31" tires?
DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
Die Hard Manual ...
I was a hard core manual freaque until my '77 Blazer. It had the THD 350 or 400 and was just wonderful. I put in an after market shift kit and ran it for 14 years before selling. The only real abuse I ever gave it was the time the rubber hose to the external cooler broke at about the 13 year mark. Naturally, I was a day or so outbound and naturally I had no spare ATF. So I by passed the external cooler, dumped in a litre or two of motor oil and cursed that fact that I didn't have a temp gauge! Couple more days of heavy sand and I was back in Gaborone and flushed and refilled.
The four speed, electronically controlled slush box on Suzi the Isuzu was even better. Press the power range button and you had the perfect ticket for driving the Andes. No unwanted upshifts when cresting rolling hills.
Most of the folks who have the current Duramax/six speed Allison would have you believe that it is the cure for anything.
Notes:
-- This assumes that you know when and how to downshift the transmission without tearing it up. (Or frying your brakes.)
-- You will have to go into lower gears, sooner, with an auto trans. On the trail, I am in low range much, much sooner than with a manual, but I am in the higher gears. There is engine braking, just not as much, as fast, as with a manual.
Final drive ratio is a bit of a bear as you must factor:
-- Vehicle weight
-- Tire diameter (and width)
-- Engine power and torque
-- Goals (performance/economy)
Some examples:
-- 72 Blazer, 350 V-8, factory tire H78x15, 4spd manual (3 plus granny), final drive 3.07. Perfect. Move up to 11x15's and there is a real hole in 3rd(2nd) gear. 3.75 would have been much better.
-- I drove a 77 manual with factory 10.00x15's and 4.10 gears. A bit low, but probably spot on for 12.00x15.
-- 77 Blazer, 400 V-8, factory tire 10.00x15, auto, final drive 3.07. Good. Move up to 12.00x15 and it is still good, but again, 3.75 would have been better.
Never bothered to look with the Isuzu, but the match was perfect with the factory tires.
You can do the math, but sadly, you almost have to drive it to be sure. My instinct with larger diameter tires is to go for the lower gears. As always, YMMV.
I was a hard core manual freaque until my '77 Blazer. It had the THD 350 or 400 and was just wonderful. I put in an after market shift kit and ran it for 14 years before selling. The only real abuse I ever gave it was the time the rubber hose to the external cooler broke at about the 13 year mark. Naturally, I was a day or so outbound and naturally I had no spare ATF. So I by passed the external cooler, dumped in a litre or two of motor oil and cursed that fact that I didn't have a temp gauge! Couple more days of heavy sand and I was back in Gaborone and flushed and refilled.
The four speed, electronically controlled slush box on Suzi the Isuzu was even better. Press the power range button and you had the perfect ticket for driving the Andes. No unwanted upshifts when cresting rolling hills.
Most of the folks who have the current Duramax/six speed Allison would have you believe that it is the cure for anything.
Notes:
-- This assumes that you know when and how to downshift the transmission without tearing it up. (Or frying your brakes.)
-- You will have to go into lower gears, sooner, with an auto trans. On the trail, I am in low range much, much sooner than with a manual, but I am in the higher gears. There is engine braking, just not as much, as fast, as with a manual.
Final drive ratio is a bit of a bear as you must factor:
-- Vehicle weight
-- Tire diameter (and width)
-- Engine power and torque
-- Goals (performance/economy)
Some examples:
-- 72 Blazer, 350 V-8, factory tire H78x15, 4spd manual (3 plus granny), final drive 3.07. Perfect. Move up to 11x15's and there is a real hole in 3rd(2nd) gear. 3.75 would have been much better.
-- I drove a 77 manual with factory 10.00x15's and 4.10 gears. A bit low, but probably spot on for 12.00x15.
-- 77 Blazer, 400 V-8, factory tire 10.00x15, auto, final drive 3.07. Good. Move up to 12.00x15 and it is still good, but again, 3.75 would have been better.
Never bothered to look with the Isuzu, but the match was perfect with the factory tires.
You can do the math, but sadly, you almost have to drive it to be sure. My instinct with larger diameter tires is to go for the lower gears. As always, YMMV.