This is a companion post to a similar one I posted in the Domestic Full-size forum to hopefully get input from both camps.
Executive summary:
North American owners of older MB overland rigs - are you happy with your base truck, and have the trade-offs been worth it?
If you could do it again, would you instead have considered a newer domestic vehicle (such as 4x4 Ford F4/550 Super Duty or Dodge
Ram 4/5500) for a similar cost?
Background:
My wife and I (early-50s) are planning in the next few years to retire/transition from occasional seasonal camping trips in our current "starter" rig
to a more "secondary overlanding lifestyle" situation, spending 3-5 months per year away from our brick-and-mortar house on much longer
multi-week trips in a more substantial setup. (Very much inspired by /u/HealeyJet's adventures in their Dodge 5500-based rig!)
We are located in Canada, and we realistically expect to make the majority of our foreseeable overlanding travels within North America.
Our current "starter" rig is an older, off-the-shelf cab-over camper on the back of a first-gen Dodge 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 truck with an 8-foot bed.
Our travels in it have allowed us to see both what is and what is not important to us.
In particular, I feel my current rig is a bit... "fragile" for many of the forestry roads we travel. My camper's wet weight is right at the GVWR for my
pickup truck, and it makes for very delicate and unenjoyable white-knuckle slow travel over the rough stuff, trying not to break the vehicle as it
trundles along at jogging speed with the camper attached with four Torklift tiedowns and a prayer.
We want our next 4x4 setup to be durable enough to survive long stretches of the corrugated gravel and forestry-service roads we
love to explore at a reasonable clip, and compact enough (say ~25-ish ft. or so) to be comfortable in urban environments and on long
stretches of highway travel at or around 100 km/h. We do not envision doing serious trail-work or rock-crawling.
I'd like to be conservative in weight allowance for durability's sake to make a very sturdy habitat that is not at or near the weight limit for the truck.
To me, this excludes most N. American "consumer-level" 4x4 trucks (Ford/Dodge/Chevy 1-ton trucks and lighter) as the GVWR isn't quite
large enough for my liking - too many overloaded truck campers like mine out there. "Super-duty" work trucks such as Ford F-450/550
and Dodge Ram 4500/5500 would seem to be much better domestic choices.
I realize that Mitsubishi Fuso/Canter 4x4 commercial trucks were available here for a while, but while they are fine vehicles in their
own right, for a cab-over truck I'd be more inclined to go with a Mercedes offering instead:
I love the idea of a 1990's-era short- or mid-wheelbase Mercedes LN2 truck, 9-11 tonne GVWR such as a 917AF, 1017 or 1120/1124AF,
with a custom box habitat.
To me, this era of trucks represents the pinnacle of Mercedes quality manufacturing - countless such vehicles survive decades of horrendous
(ab)use in Third-World countries, and their various diesel OM 352/366/402 powerplants are known for their reliability and conservative design. Having
a vehicle that I can trust to shrug off the potholes and corrugations of forestry roads is a *huge* win for me.
However, for my particular situation, these trucks come with a fair list of things that are making me think twice:
Availability of vehicles - these trucks were never sold in N. America, so it's off to the European used market I go looking. By the time I add up
the purchase cost (likely including a trip overseas to inspect/select), import/export prep and fees, RoRo shipping and bonded land transport, taxes,
import duties and out-of-country inspections... by the time my 30-year-old fire truck gets parked on my street in Canada 6+ months later, it
approaches the cost of a much newer domestic offering that I can simply walk down the road and purchase tomorrow.
Speaking of old trucks, availability of parts/service - the simple design of these vehicles leads me to think that routine stuff like LOF service,
brake jobs, etc. can be carried out by most competent local commercial truck shops. But I have to wonder how creative one has to get to find
genuine MB parts in a reasonable timeframe (e.g. I think @DiploStrat recently got stranded for an annoying length of time waiting on a starter
for his 917!) and anything like upgrades of wheels, suspension, etc. may be that much more complicated due to sourcing everything overseas.
I'm guessing that some of this can be mitigated by sourcing a set of strategic spares before you actually need them, but still...
Also, no matter how sturdy the engine/drivetrain, after 30 years irritating things (like anything made of plastic or rubber) will start to get brittle and
perish, and new parts likely haven't been made for ages. I already run into these issues with my 30 year-old Dodge pickup that I never have with
my 15-year-old Toyota!
Transmission/gearing - this is a big one for me. I predict spending a decent amount of time on the highway, and the idea of maxxing out at 88
km/h or similar would get old quickly. I recognize that European rescue vehicles can be had with fast axles and/or 6-speed vs. 5-speed transmissions that,
coupled with larger tires can raise the max speed, but these trucks tend to be the exception, not the rule and are correspondingly more
expensive on the used market. Every Ford/Dodge commercial truck I know of would happily cruise at 100 km/h without breaking a sweat.
Cab comfort. I suspect that retrofitting things like modern seats and air conditioning to these old trucks can again raise the cost closer to that of a
much more modern North American vehicle which will likely come with these items from the factory, not to mention the time and hassle of
integrating aftermarket parts into the MB cab.
Ride quality. From my own and other's experiences, corrugations and long stretches of potholed roads are the real killers of vehicles and
habitats. Parabolic springs and air-seats seem to be the best option for improving the ride/performance of bigger MB trucks but companies like Kelderman
offer very well-regarded air suspensions for domestic vehicles which would be a real bonus for older bones like mine and my wife's. Not sure
if anyone has put a similar air-ride setup on a MB truck.
Despite all of this, the reputation of these older MB trucks keeps them firmly on my radar. I know that a 30-year old 917AF would be light-years
better than my 30-year old Dodge at bouncing around forestry service roads with a box on the back, but cost-wise that's hardly a fair comparison.
I recognize that folks on this forum will likely be biased in favour of MB offerings, but I still have to ask...
Anyone out there in N. America who drives an older MB truck from Europe - has it been worth it?
Would you do it again?
Executive summary:
North American owners of older MB overland rigs - are you happy with your base truck, and have the trade-offs been worth it?
If you could do it again, would you instead have considered a newer domestic vehicle (such as 4x4 Ford F4/550 Super Duty or Dodge
Ram 4/5500) for a similar cost?
Background:
My wife and I (early-50s) are planning in the next few years to retire/transition from occasional seasonal camping trips in our current "starter" rig
to a more "secondary overlanding lifestyle" situation, spending 3-5 months per year away from our brick-and-mortar house on much longer
multi-week trips in a more substantial setup. (Very much inspired by /u/HealeyJet's adventures in their Dodge 5500-based rig!)
We are located in Canada, and we realistically expect to make the majority of our foreseeable overlanding travels within North America.
Our current "starter" rig is an older, off-the-shelf cab-over camper on the back of a first-gen Dodge 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 truck with an 8-foot bed.
Our travels in it have allowed us to see both what is and what is not important to us.
In particular, I feel my current rig is a bit... "fragile" for many of the forestry roads we travel. My camper's wet weight is right at the GVWR for my
pickup truck, and it makes for very delicate and unenjoyable white-knuckle slow travel over the rough stuff, trying not to break the vehicle as it
trundles along at jogging speed with the camper attached with four Torklift tiedowns and a prayer.
We want our next 4x4 setup to be durable enough to survive long stretches of the corrugated gravel and forestry-service roads we
love to explore at a reasonable clip, and compact enough (say ~25-ish ft. or so) to be comfortable in urban environments and on long
stretches of highway travel at or around 100 km/h. We do not envision doing serious trail-work or rock-crawling.
I'd like to be conservative in weight allowance for durability's sake to make a very sturdy habitat that is not at or near the weight limit for the truck.
To me, this excludes most N. American "consumer-level" 4x4 trucks (Ford/Dodge/Chevy 1-ton trucks and lighter) as the GVWR isn't quite
large enough for my liking - too many overloaded truck campers like mine out there. "Super-duty" work trucks such as Ford F-450/550
and Dodge Ram 4500/5500 would seem to be much better domestic choices.
I realize that Mitsubishi Fuso/Canter 4x4 commercial trucks were available here for a while, but while they are fine vehicles in their
own right, for a cab-over truck I'd be more inclined to go with a Mercedes offering instead:
I love the idea of a 1990's-era short- or mid-wheelbase Mercedes LN2 truck, 9-11 tonne GVWR such as a 917AF, 1017 or 1120/1124AF,
with a custom box habitat.
To me, this era of trucks represents the pinnacle of Mercedes quality manufacturing - countless such vehicles survive decades of horrendous
(ab)use in Third-World countries, and their various diesel OM 352/366/402 powerplants are known for their reliability and conservative design. Having
a vehicle that I can trust to shrug off the potholes and corrugations of forestry roads is a *huge* win for me.
However, for my particular situation, these trucks come with a fair list of things that are making me think twice:
Availability of vehicles - these trucks were never sold in N. America, so it's off to the European used market I go looking. By the time I add up
the purchase cost (likely including a trip overseas to inspect/select), import/export prep and fees, RoRo shipping and bonded land transport, taxes,
import duties and out-of-country inspections... by the time my 30-year-old fire truck gets parked on my street in Canada 6+ months later, it
approaches the cost of a much newer domestic offering that I can simply walk down the road and purchase tomorrow.
Speaking of old trucks, availability of parts/service - the simple design of these vehicles leads me to think that routine stuff like LOF service,
brake jobs, etc. can be carried out by most competent local commercial truck shops. But I have to wonder how creative one has to get to find
genuine MB parts in a reasonable timeframe (e.g. I think @DiploStrat recently got stranded for an annoying length of time waiting on a starter
for his 917!) and anything like upgrades of wheels, suspension, etc. may be that much more complicated due to sourcing everything overseas.
I'm guessing that some of this can be mitigated by sourcing a set of strategic spares before you actually need them, but still...
Also, no matter how sturdy the engine/drivetrain, after 30 years irritating things (like anything made of plastic or rubber) will start to get brittle and
perish, and new parts likely haven't been made for ages. I already run into these issues with my 30 year-old Dodge pickup that I never have with
my 15-year-old Toyota!
Transmission/gearing - this is a big one for me. I predict spending a decent amount of time on the highway, and the idea of maxxing out at 88
km/h or similar would get old quickly. I recognize that European rescue vehicles can be had with fast axles and/or 6-speed vs. 5-speed transmissions that,
coupled with larger tires can raise the max speed, but these trucks tend to be the exception, not the rule and are correspondingly more
expensive on the used market. Every Ford/Dodge commercial truck I know of would happily cruise at 100 km/h without breaking a sweat.
Cab comfort. I suspect that retrofitting things like modern seats and air conditioning to these old trucks can again raise the cost closer to that of a
much more modern North American vehicle which will likely come with these items from the factory, not to mention the time and hassle of
integrating aftermarket parts into the MB cab.
Ride quality. From my own and other's experiences, corrugations and long stretches of potholed roads are the real killers of vehicles and
habitats. Parabolic springs and air-seats seem to be the best option for improving the ride/performance of bigger MB trucks but companies like Kelderman
offer very well-regarded air suspensions for domestic vehicles which would be a real bonus for older bones like mine and my wife's. Not sure
if anyone has put a similar air-ride setup on a MB truck.
Despite all of this, the reputation of these older MB trucks keeps them firmly on my radar. I know that a 30-year old 917AF would be light-years
better than my 30-year old Dodge at bouncing around forestry service roads with a box on the back, but cost-wise that's hardly a fair comparison.
I recognize that folks on this forum will likely be biased in favour of MB offerings, but I still have to ask...
Anyone out there in N. America who drives an older MB truck from Europe - has it been worth it?
Would you do it again?
