Minimum EV Range Requirement for Touring Western U.S.

[JMacs]

If your daily driver ICE vehicle had a small gas tank, and only could go about 200 miles between fill-ups, would you be that concerned? Would you want a gas pump at work, at the grocery store, at the shopping mall? If you could install an gas pump in your garage that never ran out of gas, would you ever go to a gas station? No, probably not. You would drive around all day, come home, and fill it up every couple of days. As long as the gauge never went below a 1/4 of a tank, you wouldn't think twice.

With any new technology, people get very nervous until they figure out how to use it and how they will really use it in their life.

Back to the original question, touring with an EV. Most of the charging stations you see today are a Level 2 charging station. They need a 30-40A 208-240V circuit. The same size that goes to your electric dryer or electric water heater. It can charge your EV in around 2-3 hours. These are relatively inexpensive. No special wiring. Small piece of equipment.

And then there is the Level 3, or fast chargers. These can charge a EV in around 30-40 minutes. These are expensive and do require a pretty hefty electrical service from the utility. But, there are state and federal grants for these. Typically, those grants are focused on businesses that are along major travel corridors. But, if you have a restaurant along the interstate, advertise to stop in and have a sandwich and a cup of coffee while your car gets fully charged. Make money from the charge. Make money from the food.

(And why we keep giving subsidies to oil companies who have been raking in big profits for years, I don't understand. But that's politics. Logically, it makes no sense. Until you consider how much side money the politicians make.)

 

[billiebob]

Plugin hybrids will probably only be seen on utility type vehicles in the near future. Passenger car straight EV makes the most sense today. Hybrid truck large SUV etc that especially makes sense when you consider towing and long distance trips with lots of equipment or passengers etc.

If my Expedition had 12-20 mile EV range like my wife’s Fusion it would be perfect. 90% of all my local trips hauling kids would be EV mode. I use her car most of the time when she’s at the home office. The fusion has a 62mpg life time average 80,000 miles. My Expedition would easily double its lifetime mileage with a small EV range plugin ability. Battery weight and size is definitely changing fast. Prius uses ancient technology and its mileage isn’t as goid as the Fusion which has AC seats and phone conversation quiet interior. Don’t get me started on the Japan side (right side charge port) ?‍♂️.

Pure EVs are all about doing the same thing everyday. They are ideal for municipal utility companies and mass transit where the energy use never changes.

UPS did this on a big scale 100 years ago.
\

They had fleets of electric trucks on the Eastern Seaboard.


And hundreds of smaller companies relied on electric delivery trucks too.


In the 1920s Doctors and Socialites preferred electric over gas because it ALWAYS started, ir was clean with ZERO smell and it was effortless.


TheLondon Tube was running on electricity 40 years before the internal combustion engine was invented.


I am amazed those who hate the electric car are not embracing the gas washing machine.
Electric anything beats all the options.

 

[billiebob]

If your daily driver ICE vehicle had a small gas tank, and only could go about 200 miles between fill-ups, would you be that concerned? Would you want a gas pump at work, at the grocery store, at the shopping mall? If you could install an gas pump in your garage that never ran out of gas, would you ever go to a gas station? No, probably not. You would drive around all day, come home, and fill it up every couple of days. As long as the gauge never went below a 1/4 of a tank, you wouldn't think twice.

With any new technology, people get very nervous until they figure out how to use it and how they will really use it in their life.

Back to the original question, touring with an EV. Most of the charging stations you see today are a Level 2 charging station. They need a 30-40A 208-240V circuit. The same size that goes to your electric dryer or electric water heater. It can charge your EV in around 2-3 hours. These are relatively inexpensive. No special wiring. Small piece of equipment.

And then there is the Level 3, or fast chargers. These can charge a EV in around 30-40 minutes. These are expensive and do require a pretty hefty electrical service from the utility. But, there are state and federal grants for these. Typically, those grants are focused on businesses that are along major travel corridors. But, if you have a restaurant along the interstate, advertise to stop in and have a sandwich and a cup of coffee while your car gets fully charged. Make money from the charge. Make money from the food.

(And why we keep giving subsidies to oil companies who have been raking in big profits for years, I don't understand. But that's politics. Logically, it makes no sense. Until you consider how much side money the politicians make.)

Absolutely correct.... the status quo might be upset hence the shredding of GMs highly successful EV1 25 years ago.....



Me, I just put down a $500 deposit on the new Meyers Manx....
Might be my worst investment. might be my best.

 

[billiebob]

As the market changes technology advances at light speed.
Remember the first "cell" phones....


The things we have replaced with an iphone in the past 20 years is mind boggling. In 20 years we will not recognize the electric cars being sold today.



The heavy part of an electric car is the battery.... but just like the first cell phone the electric car battery is undergoing exponential change.... as for range there are highways in Europe with charging lanes.... endless range, no need to ever stop.

The big plus of electric motors is losing the exhaust system, the intake system, the cooling system.....
The big plus for overlanders is losing gas tanks and running the house and car on the same power source. There are now RV trailers with electric motors. You buy the commuter car setup to drive itself and when you couple up the trailer it has its own motor to suppliment your economical commuter.

To all those critical of lithium production, I see you are all still posting from devices powered by lithium batteries.

 

[billiebob]

People complain about charging times well 100 years ago gas was the same. Refuelling stations were hardly fast.... This one is still working today, 40 miles from my home.



Open heart surgery used to involve breaking ribs.... today they feed the stint thru your wrist and you watch it all on the TV screen, discharged 5 hours later......

Science, technology, engineering, these are things we do well. The electric RV is long overdue.

 

[JaSAn]

To all those critical of lithium production, I see you are all still posting from devices powered by lithium batteries.

The mining of lithium for my 5 oz iPhone battery polluted 10 - 15 gallons of water with toxic metals.
How much pollution are you willing to tolerate for a 1200 lb Tesla battery? For the 1,000,000 EV's that are going to be sold in California in 2035?

I don't hate EVs. I think pushing electric cars before the infrastructure can handle it is a fools game:

Californians are told to turn off their air conditioners and not charge their EVs.​

Citizens of UK are looking at a 500+% increase in their energy bills.​

Germany is re-starting coal fired power plants, looking at nuclear.​

China is increasing their % of energy produced by coal in the next 10 years (currently at ~60%).​

The world order is changing and nobody know where it is going.
Man plans. God laughs.

 

[Jupiter58]

Chargers definitely have lower foot print and property impact than the OL gas station. Utilities will ultimately be the top vendors for charge points. New commercial stuff like banks mini malls etc all get a flat fee or monthly rental fee for charging stations put n their parking lots. The hardware is definitely lower cost than a fuel pump.

low environmental impact issues on the ground, small footprint etc. Chargers will be scattered all over not just major street corners. Definitely a different model than the OL gas station.

Not for 10 or 15 years at least. Maybe more until people actually buy enough of them to make it worth anyones while to have charging stations.
And you will need 2-3 times as many stations as you have gas pumps to support the same number of vehicles due to the long charge times compared to fueling up. You can’t run around continuously rapid charging your battery with shortening the life significantly.

And how is California going to charge even 1 more ev when they can’t charge the ones existing now?
Seriously, the state has no viable or reasonable plan to even get to where they can sustain the existing grid.
Their plan is to run 30 extension cords and 20 power strips off of 1 15 amp kitchen outlet because that’s the way they think it works.

 

[2.ooohhh]

Open heart surgery used to involve breaking ribs.... today they feed the stint thru your wrist and you watch it all on the TV screen, discharged 5 hours later......

Small correction- "open" heart surgery still generally requires cracking open the ribs to access the sternal cavity. We have progressed from lebche knives to pneumatic and then lithium battery powered sternal saws.

 

[rruff]

And you will need 2-3 times as many stations as you have gas pumps to support the same number of vehicles due to the long charge times compared to fueling up.

Nope. The great majority of charging will take place at home or in parking spots using 110v.

 

[Deleted member 144299]

The mining of lithium for my 5 oz iPhone battery polluted 10 - 15 gallons of water with toxic metals.
How much pollution are you willing to tolerate for a 1200 lb Tesla battery? For the 1,000,000 EV's that are going to be sold in California in 2035?

I don't hate EVs. I think pushing electric cars before the infrastructure can handle it is a fools game:

Californians are told to turn off their air conditioners and not charge their EVs.​

Citizens of UK are looking at a 500+% increase in their energy bills.​

Germany is re-starting coal fired power plants, looking at nuclear.​

China is increasing their % of energy produced by coal in the next 10 years (currently at ~60%).​

The world order is changing and nobody know where it is going.
Man plans. God laughs.

How many gallons of water has the oil, gas and coal industries polluted? I am under no illusion that EV's are completely clean but I find it so interesting that folks support companies like shell and exxon who have committed horrendous crimes against people and the planet while leaving taxpayers to clean up the mess. Mining is an environmental concern for sure but EV's are still lower impact than ICE's even if the power comes from coal. Our electrical grid needs a massive revamping and investment regardless of how many EV's are on the road, American infrastructure is a joke.

 

[JMacs]

While California is doing a good job of pushing things forward to a more environmentally friendly world, they do have their issues. To give them credit, living with the reputation and pictures of a smog covered L.A. was certainly good motivation. This is also the same state that at one point wanted to build huge water pipes from the Alaska glaciers to help with their water crisis. Maybe in stead of looking for other resources, they need to force people to use less of what they have.

Well charging at home is nice when you do not have black-out. My mother-onlaw had a nice one this last weekend in Santa Barbara, Ca.

Oh, and the last extended power outage we had in our area, the gas pumps at the local convenience store didn't work either. They use electric pumps, not the hand / gravity pump like Billiebob's.

 

[dbhost]

For me to even consider EV, they would have to address the fairly regular vehicular flambe issues that are ongoing, insure that you could go from being towed in discharged to 100% capacity in the same time that you would need for ICE fuels, and an absolute minimum range of 400 miles reasonably loaded / towing. The technology is interesting, and getting better as they go on, but for my purposes, it is just not ready for prime time.

 

[Deleted member 144299]

Maybe in stead of looking for other resources, they need to force people to use less of what they have.

100% this.

 

[ABBB]

For me to even consider EV, they would have to address the fairly regular vehicular flambe issues that are ongoing, insure that you could go from being towed in discharged to 100% capacity in the same time that you would need for ICE fuels, and an absolute minimum range of 400 miles reasonably loaded / towing. The technology is interesting, and getting better as they go on, but for my purposes, it is just not ready for prime time.

I’d like all that too, and I’m sure we’ll get there, but what kinda rig now gets 400 minimum range when towing? That would be the bees knees, surely, but that’s a figment of our imagination in ICE and EV realities.

 

[rruff]

How much pollution are you willing to tolerate for a 1200 lb Tesla battery? For the 1,000,000 EV's that are going to be sold in California in 2035?

The real stupidity is focusing efforts on making high performance long range EVs. If wisdom prevailed, EVs would target their forte... which would be tiny urban commuter vehicles. 1-2 seaters, <1,000 lbs (maybe a lot less), modest speed and range. Reconfigure the infrastructure to favor them and make them safe to use. Massive savings in total cost, congestion, and polution. Save the "big" ICEs for long trips... don't try to force adoption where it doesn't fit.