Minimum EV Range Requirement for Touring Western U.S.

[T-Willy]

I've been thinking about minimum EV range requirements for remote touring in the western U.S. There are obviously many factors to consider, most notably a region or route's density of or distance to fast chargers, and of course each person's tolerance for range anxiety.

My gut feeling is that, in the desert southwest and Colorado Plateau where I live, a reasonable minimum range would be 500-600 actual (reasonably loaded dirt) miles with the ability to fast-charge (10 minutes per 100 miles or so) up to 80% capacity.

Obviously, none of the current or soon-to-be EV trucks or wagons offer anything near that (barring perhaps Cybertruck), and charger build-out will relieve some of the vehicle range burden, but...

*I'm interested to hear -- what's your minimum range requirement for a remote touring EV?*

(I'd really like this thread to focus on others' perceptions of remote touring EV range requirements, not why hybrid EVs would be better, or why EVs are categorically undesirable or not there yet.)

 

[calicamper]

I've been thinking about minimum EV range requirements for remote touring in the western U.S. There are obviously many factors to consider, most notably a region or route's density of or distance to fast chargers, and of course each person's tolerance for range anxiety.

My gut feeling is that, in the desert southwest and Colorado Plateau where I live, a reasonable minimum range would be 500-600 actual (reasonably loaded dirt) miles with the ability to fast-charge (10 minutes per 100 miles or so) up to 80% capacity.

Obviously, none of the current or soon-to-be EV trucks or wagons offer anything near that (barring perhaps Cybertruck), and charger build-out will relieve some of the vehicle range burden, but...

*I'm interested to hear -- what's your minimum range requirement for a remote touring EV?*

(I'd really like this thread to focus on others' perceptions of remote touring EV range requirements, not why hybrid EVs would be better, or why EVs are categorically undesirable or not there yet.)

Your in Colorado? Look up the front range EV charger drama that took place spring break 2021. Covid sent a large number of EV owners into a drive instead of fly mode. Front range EV chargers were absolutely CRUSHED by a huge number of EVs passing thru from in state and out of state. Talking hours of waiting for a charge.

If your curious about EV power burn rate while driving trails. Go watch TFL test the EV range of the new Hybrid jeep while driving a trail. At their burn rate your on road 500 mile range would be about 100 miles of trail or less?.
Battery power density is about 1/10th Of what gasoline offers. New modern battery technology is moving fast and hopefully closing the gap soon.
For the next say 15-20 yrs the hybrid will be king of the long remote adventure trips. Simply due to energy density of gasoline, efficiency of hybrids and gas station infrastructure being superior to EV charging availability.

I really like EVs and they definitely are king of the local urban use.

 

[billiebob]

what's your minimum range requirement for a remote touring EV?

If I pick touring by EV today, I've made a choice to experiment and understand the technology and infrastructure have a lot of catching up to do. Range, enough to get between charging points with 25% of the power left. With an EV my trip planning would focus on charging station locations. And the trip would be like every other first time experience, try it out, learn, make adjustments. How I do that first trip would likely be much different than how I make the same trip next year.

I doubt I'd be going over any powerline passes in a pure electric in the next 5 years.

But no one makes an EV I'd want to drive on a trip anyway. My TJR I actually find to big and heavy but it is the smallest real 4x4 on the North American market. My dream overlanding electric vehicle would be compact and light yet with high clearances and minimal wheelbase or overhangs. Give me that at under 3000# and range off road might be realistic.

This with a pure electric powertrain I'd buy.
Range.... 250 miles would work on paved roads I'd never go over 50mph.
Range.... off road, 150 miles would work.

 

[Bobu]

I can offer the perspective of overlanding/offroad trips in Europe. I've done now a couple of trips with EVs. My experience is, that 400 km range would be sufficient for almost all trails and trips. But it's important to really have this number on a gravel track with MT tires and fully loaded. My current EV has a WLTP range of about 350 km. Under these conditions I get about 250 km, meaning you lose about 25-30% compared to the EPA/WLTP range.

If I check on plugshare the charging options in the Western U.S.A. it doesn't look much different than in the remote locations in Europe like Karelia (border between Finland and Russia) or Iceland. Therefore my estimate is, that these numbers are also valid for the U.S.. This means an EPA range of 300-400 miles should be sufficient.

 

[plh]

Fast charging you are stuck with a Tesla - right? My neighbors took their Model X pulling an Airstream Basecamp to the Black Hills (900 miles 1 way - interstate highway) a couple summers ago. They said - never again! Time spent charging and range anxiety were the main issues.

 

[Bobu]

It depends on how fast you need. 60 kW DC chargers are nearly everywhere in the U.S. (with the exception of Alaska). If I'm not on a business trip or in hurry for whatever reason, I can live with 60 kW. Typically you need to charge maybe twice a day. If you choose for the night a place with a charger close-by it means one long stop where you can have lunch/dinner or visit something. If you camp remote you need two longer breaks. Quite manageable, in my opinion.

 

[calicamper]

Fast charging you are stuck with a Tesla - right? My neighbors took their Model X pulling an Airstream Basecamp to the Black Hills (900 miles 1 way - interstate highway) a couple summers ago. They said - never again! Time spent charging and range anxiety were the main issues.

Nope biggest charging network is getting to be VW owned lol Electrify America for remote locations. They have a charging site power supply issue at most locations known issue which causes slowwwwwwwwwwww ******** charging rates. The fix was just negotiated and announced last month. Remote locations with power supply issues will get Tesla power packs on site to handle the high power transfer rates the grid drops are unable to handle. So another words battery to battery charging with a trickle charge to the site batteries. Good idea and old idea this same idea is used in the traditional fuel industry also. Fuel tanks on site to handle fueling loads and pipe line feed to refill onsite tanks etc.

 

[plh]

Nope biggest charging network is getting to be VW owned lol Electrify America for remote locations. They have a charging site power supply issue at most locations known issue which causes slowwwwwwwwwwww ******** charging rates. The fix was just negotiated and announced last month. Remote locations with power supply issues will get Tesla power packs on site to handle the high power transfer rates the grid drops are unable to handle. So another words battery to battery charging with a trickle charge to the site batteries. Good idea and old idea this same idea is used in the traditional fuel industry also. Fuel tanks on site to handle fueling loads and pipe line feed to refill onsite tanks etc.

Well, that network would not get me from where I live "upper midwest" to "out west" according to their map, and for sure not to the Black Hills (basically I90 shot) - lol

 

[calicamper]

Well, that network would not get me from where I live "upper midwest" to "out west" according to their map, and for sure not to the Black Hills (basically I90 shot) - lol

Not only that but add crowds lined up for a slow charge! Imagine pulling into a very busy gas station and each car is nursing a slow pump for 40 minutes ?‍♂️. This is pretty typical now on major routes during classic get alway weeks.

 

[Bobu]

Not only that but add crowds lined up for a slow charge! Imagine pulling into a very busy gas station and each car is nursing a slow pump for 40 minutes ?‍♂️. This is pretty typical now on major routes during classic get alway weeks.

Is this really typical in the U.S.? Interesting! I've never ever experienced something like this in Europe. Sometimes chargers are not working and I have to try another one or call the hotline to do a remote activation but I never had to wait in line for charging.

 

[plh]

Is this really typical in the U.S.? Interesting! I've never ever experienced something like this in Europe. Sometimes chargers are not working and I have to try another one or call the hotline to do a remote activation but I never had to wait in line for charging.

Not sure really. I have a PHEV and only charge at home. ICE F.T.W. on long trips.

 

[calicamper]

Is this really typical in the U.S.? Interesting! I've never ever experienced something like this in Europe. Sometimes chargers are not working and I have to try another one or call the hotline to do a remote activation but I never had to wait in line for charging.

This only just became a common thing during COVID. Given most EV only owners fly when traveling more than a few hours. But COVID pretty much shut that down and sent EV owners into road trip mode by the 1000’s. So for example the primary routes from the west coast to Colorado ( major destination for spring break skiing) we’re absolutely crushed! Same for other destinations like SF to LA and LA to Vegas. EV use for these trip’s went from a pretty stable long time number to a 200% increase in just a few weeks time.

Now that those range sensitive EV owners know it’s possible the usage has remained far far higher than it was pre covid flight disruptions.

 

[jkam]

I live full time in a small RV. Have for many years now.
When I decide to relocate, I usually go around 250 miles per day.
What I would like is to be able to travel the 250 miles and then have plenty of power left over to run the small RV.
A way to recharge the battery without having to go to a charging station. Solar alone won't get it done in a reasonable time.
With that said, I think a hybrid setup makes the most sense.

 

[RDinNHand AZ]

I’ve thought that about 1KW of solar might do it. 3-350 watt panels would fit on a long Euro style van. If you need 60-70 KWH to recharge after 250 miles then stay in the sun for about 10-12 days?? The problem is, no van we now have could get that much mileage/KWH. I’m thinking the desert SW in winter, panels that can be angled, no A/C or electric hogging appliances in the RV and giving in to commercial recharging when it is convenient. Perhaps a 2KW near silent generator and 5 gal of gas for getting back to town if you miscalculate? Run it for 24 hours and pump in 40+KWH? I see a lot of these ICE vans parked in local boondock locations with only short local trips over a month or so. Wouldn’t you be recharged? E-bike to get around?

 

[plainjaneFJC]

After watching the rivian on the Ike gauntlet the other day- and the hassle involved towing. I’d say 400 mile range if I was not towing. But a truck needs to be able to tow so that puts a truck in more like a 600 mile range not towing to have any range towing