Misrepresentation of AutoHome roof top tents

[Lemsteraak]

Wade- I see your point but it is confusing to the uninitiated to have a picture of a tent on your website you don't sell.

Mike - I see your point but that particular Maggiolina belongs to Wade and he can use it for display or comparison as long as he properly describes what it is. He does have some very kind words to say about your products.

As a whole, I find Chinese knock-offs really distasteful, and to the point, probably Mike does too. I know the good folks that make AutoHome tents in Italy, I bought my Maggiolina at the factory 20 years ago and I discussed with Zifer having them make their tents in China, obviously much cheaper labor. They are a small village in the Po river valley and they farm in the summer and make tents in the winter, very quaint. They explained that everything, everything is made by Zifer on site and will be as long as they are making tents, (albeit expensive handmade ones).

As for knock offs of AutoHome designs. Wade, AutoHome wouldn't have a bone to pick since you are promoting a pastime they believe in and have spent over 50 years promoting. I think we all get frustrated by China and their total disregard of intellectual property. Does anyone really think it is possible to enforce a valid international patent in China? The problem is that every dollar that goes to a Chinese knock off makes them stronger and the designer weaker. Mike is correct in saying that it is very expensive to develop a product. I know both the Maggiolina and Columbus have been crash tested (huge expense) to prove the concept. You get the idea, there is a lot of expense that goes into development. Promotion, even more, for example, going to SEMA to work with the auto manufacturers is $20,000 for just a booth. Design, the costs in Italy must be enormous.

Wade, I strongly suggest you describe your products and your concepts in more detail. I think Mike is justified in over reacting. On a personal note, I use OverCamp, a fabric AutoHome tent, and was very surprised to see a picture of my own truck and my own OverCamp in Ebay promoting a knock off by Sun Lion. Why they were knocking off OverCamps is a mystery to me since it is a special order expedition tent and there are probably less than 10 in North America, but they said that their tent was made in the same Chinese factory that made the OverCamp. Oh yeah, they were making every effort to tell the truth. I think that is all Mike is asking here.

 

[Xterabl]

DWH referencing the Wall St. Mafia (Goldman Vampire Squid anyone???) and MicroOverland referencing Union labor and gov't regulations are the best takeaways from this thread. If everyone understand these few points, we might not be headed so quickly into the crapper as a nation (I could also mention attacks on 2nd amendment but I won't )

Aside from all this minutiae above, I'd like to say "Thanks" to everyone who makes either quality or affordable products available to us.

 

[dwh]

DWH referencing the Wall St. Mafia (Goldman Vampire Squid anyone???) and MicroOverland referencing Union labor and gov't regulations are the best takeaways from this thread. If everyone understand these few points, we might not be headed so quickly into the crapper as a nation (I could also mention attacks on 2nd amendment but I won't )

Aside from all this minutiae above, I'd like to say "Thanks" to everyone who makes either quality or affordable products available to us.

Well, thanks.

But for the record, I actually disagree with what MicroOverland said. The whole idea that "the jobs left the country because of the unions and the regulations" reeks of corporate propaganda to me. I think the truth is that the jobs were taken from the country because of the minimum wage and OSHA. Why pay 8 bucks an hour (or 20 to a union member) if you can pay 38 bucks a month to someone who has to take it or starve? Why provide dust masks if you can save a few bucks by "outsourcing" to where there are no worker protections? Why pay anything at all when you can get the local goverment to force students to work as "interns" in the factory?

Look at this:

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/16/142346962/in-indonesia-anger-against-mining-giant-grows

That (American) corporation pays miners about a buck and a half per hour, and netted 4.5 billion in 2011. They could have paid 20,000 miners $20 per hour and still netted 3.5 billion. How did they offer to end the strike? (Strikes really, they had the same problem at their copper mines.) They offered a 30% pay increase. Lemme see...30% of a buck and a half is - 45 cents. So they offered a bump from a buck fifty an hour, up to two bucks. Nice.

The unions and the regulations in the U.S. are NOT the reason why the corporate mafia takes jobs overseas. Of course, they *say* that's why they do it, but they lie. They tell you the reason you don't have a job is because you are too demanding. They tell a lie designed to shift the blame to the victim. The real reason they do it is so they can add another billion here and there to the net profits. Paying fair wages sure as hell would not put them out of business.




And to get back on topic:

If the one company isn't selling the brand name product, they shouldn't be displaying the brand name product in their literature. I understand that the image is intended to "promote an idea" of overlanding. Still...it's deceptive. I say bolt one of the Chinese knockoffs on the Jeep and take another picture for the web site. Case closed, bar's open.

 

[pugslyyy]

And to get back on topic:

If the one company isn't selling the brand name product, they shouldn't be displaying the brand name product in their literature. I understand that the image is intended to "promote an idea" of overlanding. Still...it's deceptive. I say bolt one of the Chinese knockoffs on the Jeep and take another picture for the web site. Case closed, bar's open.

View attachment 164690

Or if it is meant to be an 'illustrative example' simply airbrush the logo/identifying features. I've had to do that before (for instance when a former employee didn't want their image used on my website anymore but I liked the picture). Is it something you have to legally do? I don't think so (at least in my case I could have clearly continued to use the images). Was it the right thing to do to avoid confusion? Yes, definitely.

 

[Xterabl]

Well, global wage arbitrage is actually a different--albeit related--topic, I think
Of course, these are complicated issues and perfect solutions are either non-existent or essentially intractable, IMO.
Here is another problem: how many people (1) know about and (2) give a damn about the condition of the workers making their iPhones?
Answer: not very many because their iPhone is just so darned hip.
Anyways, a good start would have been to allow *a lot* more corporate failure back in 2008, rather than require my grandchildren to foot the bill for their imprudence at best and malfeasance at worst. We don't need a reset but a very large shake-up sure would work wonders.

BTW, I checked out the offender's website AO4x4 and there is not a peep about autohome (nope, not even a photo!); but there is absolutely a nice selection of RTT's available and I am glad this post called my attention to this website.

http://www.oao4x4.com/

I am also glad that the US economy is still good enough that a scruff like me can afford to buy the "finest" of some items, but also can afford the means (internet connection) to find the not-so-finest-but-good-enough options for other items, as my tastes dictate.

 

[Martyn]

When you own trademarks, patents, and copyrights it is up to you as the owner to protect them.

If you fail to protect them from use by others you lose your intellectual property as it the public domain.

This can place the owners of intellectual property and their agents in the difficult position of being the aggressor. I know this from personal experience. AT owns the trademark on "Overland" for vehicles and trailers. We have had to defend the trademark numerous times and none of these interactions has been pleasant to conduct. Unfortunately it is the position you find yourself in as the owner of the intellectual property.

I'd suggest that we could move this conversation on in a very positive way by discussing intellectual property, how not to infringe on it, and how to create your own. It would be a good topic for a new thread.

 

[Utah KJ]

Can someone direct me to the Kodiak Tent thread?

Thanks.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Can someone direct me to the Kodiak Tent thread?

Thanks.

 

[expedition4x4]

When you own trademarks, patents, and copyrights it is up to you as the owner to protect them.

If you fail to protect them from use by others you lose your intellectual property as it the public domain.

This can place the owners of intellectual property and their agents in the difficult position of being the aggressor. I know this from personal experience. AT owns the trademark on "Overland" for vehicles and trailers. We have had to defend the trademark numerous times and none of these interactions has been pleasant to conduct. Unfortunately it is the position you find yourself in as the owner of the intellectual property.

I'd suggest that we could move this conversation on in a very positive way by discussing intellectual property, how not to infringe on it, and how to create your own. It would be a good topic for a new thread.

Martyn,
Does Jeep Cherokee overland editions infringe upon that trademark?

 

[pugslyyy]

Martyn,
Does Jeep Cherokee overland editions infringe upon that trademark?

DaimlerChrysler owns the trademark for "motor vehicles, namely, automobiles, trucks and sport utility vehicles and structural parts thereof"

Adventure Trailers owns the trademark for "Camping trailers; Trailers"

If you are curious, use the search term

(Overland)[FM] and (Live)[LD]

on TESS

You should see something that looks like this...

 

[Martyn]

DaimlerChrysler owns the trademark for "motor vehicles, namely, automobiles, trucks and sport utility vehicles and structural parts thereof"

Adventure Trailers owns the trademark for "Camping trailers; Trailers"

If you are curious, use the search term

(Overland)[FM] and (Live)[LD]

on TESS

You should see something that looks like this...
View attachment 164945

Yes, that's correct, I think the Trademark is classified under 012 which is Automobiles and Vehicles. Within the 012 classification there are numerous sub-sections. AT's little part of the pie is Trailers.

 

[jeepdreamer]

Holy brain melt! I'm so glad I can just go camping and not delve into the legal mumbo-jumbo....Feel bad for all you vendor folks! Hope it all works out for everyone!

 

[expedition4x4]

So outside of the picture of Wade's jeep on his website with an Autohome tent on it was there any misrepresentation that the tents on the website were in fact Magnolias?

 

[Mike S]

So outside of the picture of Wade's jeep on his website with an Autohome tent on it was there any misrepresentation that the tents on the website were in fact Magnolias?

Not that I saw. Wade did have quite a number of photos of AutoHome tents in the 'gallery' section. There was no identification of AutoHome (and no disclaimers regarding the photos) beyond the ID on the tents in the photos. I would much prefer not to have these issues, but success does attract imitators - in this case the Chinese manufacturer and US importer. My issues with Wade was simply the use of photos of our tents to sell an unlicensed imitation. As was pointed out by Martyn, if we do not defend our intellectual property and brand name we could render it indefensible.

 

[Co-opski]

Way too funny. Do glampers take off their gloves in a dual?
One has a Fratelli Orsini golve and the other a pig skin Kinco.

This just made my day as much as seeing the guy in the truck fully built for overlanding chasing a black bear around with an iPad this morning on the side of the road. I almost stopped to tell him it was not a good idea but I think he was looking for adventure. I just texted the mile post to a friend looking to fill a tag.

Thanks for the foam.