medicfernando
Adventurer
Looks great! No problems with alignment? How is the wheel travel?
Last edited:
Modern Rover's and overlanding.
- Thread starter A.J.M
- Start date
Looks great! No problems with alignment? How is the wheel travel?
roverandom
Adventurer
Yes, it was sarcasm. They are not better off road than a Defender. I also have lots of time behind the wheel of Defenders and D3's, as well as most other models of Land Rover.
Modern units are certainly larger, faster, safer, more comfortable and arguably more reliable. Attributes that are useful in an overland situation.
But better off road? They do pretty good in open, hard surface, high traction areas like Moab but everywhere else it's a 6 foot wide, 6,000lb, 113" wheelbase monster with 30" road biased tyres. The traction control is good, but there is only so much it can compensate for.
Modern units are certainly larger, faster, safer, more comfortable and arguably more reliable. Attributes that are useful in an overland situation.
But better off road? They do pretty good in open, hard surface, high traction areas like Moab but everywhere else it's a 6 foot wide, 6,000lb, 113" wheelbase monster with 30" road biased tyres. The traction control is good, but there is only so much it can compensate for.
I won't get in to an open debate with you, but I watched a stock LR3 smoke a built Defender 90 with a 4.6, locked and loaded. It was climbing a muddy hill laden with Tennessee limestone rocks that were ranging in size from a grapefruit to a pumpkin. The LR3 climbed it with very little effort ... stock. The experienced D90 driver couldn't make the top. He thought it was luck ... so they tried it again. Same result. Just saying ...
roverandom
Adventurer
I've never had problems with the alignment with my AB coil spring conversion. Wheel travel is similar to stock but is now fully independent without the crosslinked action of the EAS. To be honest wheel travel is not exactly the LR3/4's strong suit and the cross linked EAS has never made much noticeable difference to me. They do love to lift a wheel or two. Thank goodness the TR system is so good.
My 2c
roverandom
Adventurer
Agreed, no debate really needed. I suppose It's all very subjective. I've seen a D3 stopped by wet grass and a bone stock Series I climb a hill failed by an ex Lagona Trophy Defender 90 special. I've been buried in snow in a D3 and watched a 110 just roll through the same area with the engine on tickover. I've followed D3's around Moab, watching them painstakingly haul themselves up and over obstacles that I just drove straight over in less than a tenth the time and effort in my 21 year old RRC.
My only point is that a D3 is not nessasarily an all conquering off roader some claim it to be and anyone drinking that Kool-aid is likely to be dissappointed in the long run.
I still think a D3 is a great choice as a overlander vehicle though. We drive our 06 everywhere and have almost 300,000km on the clock. I off road it when I can and have done a few upgrades. Latest upgrade is orange PollyBush bushings all round and a serviceable transmission oil pan.
LR Max
Local Oaf
We go through this all the time. When the RRC's came to America, the series crowd claimed the end of the world. When the D2s came, it was the end of rovers off road. When the D3s came, it was the end of the world again. Then we learn that they are actually ok.
So, its fine.
D90s are very good off road. I've seen an unlocked lightweight 90 (aka, not loaded down with crap) make easy work out of what would give a locked and lifted disco trouble. Off road, they are excellent in the right hands. Obviously a great piece of machinery is going to be useless when you give it to an idiot. Saw it recently. A D3 owner didn't pay attention to his line and dropped the rear end into this ditch. Had all kinds of issues getting it out. In comparison, my 109 just walked right up. On the flipside, on Daniel, A D3 made easy work out of that trail while it was white knuckle in my 109 the entire time.
The only issue is that most of the trails tackled now aren't that difficult. So you might have a section that a stock D3 needs a spotter and traction control. Other than that 20ft section of very rough terrain, the rest of the trail and 6 hours of pavement, the D3 shines. In comparison, the D90 rolls through that 20ft section in 5 seconds but then has to bounce its way through the rest of the trail and 6 hours on the highway. If Tellico was still open, the drive up there in the D90 would be totally worth it and a D3 would've had trouble all day, making for slow going. But now I'd prefer to take a D3 to Windrock as the kind of trails I would hit wouldn't be overly difficult.
So, its fine.
D90s are very good off road. I've seen an unlocked lightweight 90 (aka, not loaded down with crap) make easy work out of what would give a locked and lifted disco trouble. Off road, they are excellent in the right hands. Obviously a great piece of machinery is going to be useless when you give it to an idiot. Saw it recently. A D3 owner didn't pay attention to his line and dropped the rear end into this ditch. Had all kinds of issues getting it out. In comparison, my 109 just walked right up. On the flipside, on Daniel, A D3 made easy work out of that trail while it was white knuckle in my 109 the entire time.
The only issue is that most of the trails tackled now aren't that difficult. So you might have a section that a stock D3 needs a spotter and traction control. Other than that 20ft section of very rough terrain, the rest of the trail and 6 hours of pavement, the D3 shines. In comparison, the D90 rolls through that 20ft section in 5 seconds but then has to bounce its way through the rest of the trail and 6 hours on the highway. If Tellico was still open, the drive up there in the D90 would be totally worth it and a D3 would've had trouble all day, making for slow going. But now I'd prefer to take a D3 to Windrock as the kind of trails I would hit wouldn't be overly difficult.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
There are so many factors involved in each situation. From my own experience observing LR3's off road, they are fine if their size doesn't get in the way, which it does often where we off road here in Illinois, particularly the long wheelbase and lower undercarriage. Even with 33's an LR3 we've had with us has either not been able to follow the coilers at all in certain situations, or gotten hung up and even damaged underneath in sections where the breakover angle has come into play. It's really difficult to argue this factor away. There are so many places off road where breakover is very important and the 100 inch wheelbase or shorter makes a huge difference. Outside of that, the LR3/4 is able to put its electronics to advantage. However, lock the coiler and it will be that much better than the later trucks yet again. Road performance/comfort is the only place the earlier trucks will never have an ultimate advantage.
morrisdl
Adventurer
Ive driven both D90 and D3 offroad - its apples and oranges. Similar to: Whats better a dirtbike or 4wheeler? Both are great at what they do. Each owner needs to decide what they want or need (or can find here in the states). BOTH exceed my off-road capability needs. I LOVE the Defender's utilitarian design, but ultimately needed the D3 for safety, space, comfort, amenities, and value. Your needs may be different; cant we still be friends ;-)
Small can of worms with the Defenders vs Disco's... Good to see that arguement exists on both sides of the pond and it's not just over here they like to lock horns.
I'll firstly thank everyone for the various responses.
Now to address a few things brought up.
I have no reservations with the EAS, all i've done to mine is change a front valve block, the compressor is on the way out, i've known this for a while and i've a rebuilt spare sitting in the garage waiting for the day when my motivational kick fails to deliver. I'll replace the air struts later this year as my car had it's 10th birthday in December so it's going to get that refreshed. I've already done all the wishbones etc with new ones from my local dealer.
Also, due to the nature of my work, the EAS is a bonus for raising and lowering the car for easy access for people. So chucking it away is a no go.
The car will get an IID tool this year as well. The market for one of them has really opened up with bluetooth ability and control via a smart phone or ipad. So some thinking to be done to see what suits my needs.
I had a look for the book. Cheapest i can find is £180! So, that may have to wait a while as that's outside my budget unless you know of a cheaper source?
I've been reading through Aus and African D3/4 users and there are a nice list of spares and "just in case" parts they take along. Brake switches and sensor's are the main ones.
For range, i have the diesel version so range is better for me, could stick a long range tank under it for real range if needed. However they cost and budget is not huge.
I've driven both D3 and D90's. They both have plus and minus points. A lot of my D3/4 driving friends have a cheap D90 for off road use. ( we in the UK are blessed with having loads of the things to use ) There are some lanes that we have driven on that the D90's have struggled up and the D3 has walked up. Plus lanes that the D3 has struggled on that the D90's haven't. The long wheel base has caught me out a few times when doing an off road competition that had courses designed around D90's. It beached a couple of times and i don't have full underbody protection yet to slide off things.
However, when we do go on the bi-annual off road trips, all the D90 drivers give me the fingers as i sail past enjoying what i call "S class mode"
The route i would take is to go from Scotland, through Europe before going down Africa to Cape Town, then heading East to Singapore and then heading home.
I'll firstly thank everyone for the various responses.
Now to address a few things brought up.
I have no reservations with the EAS, all i've done to mine is change a front valve block, the compressor is on the way out, i've known this for a while and i've a rebuilt spare sitting in the garage waiting for the day when my motivational kick fails to deliver.
I'll replace the air struts later this year as my car had it's 10th birthday in December so it's going to get that refreshed. I've already done all the wishbones etc with new ones from my local dealer. Also, due to the nature of my work, the EAS is a bonus for raising and lowering the car for easy access for people. So chucking it away is a no go.
The car will get an IID tool this year as well. The market for one of them has really opened up with bluetooth ability and control via a smart phone or ipad. So some thinking to be done to see what suits my needs.
I had a look for the book. Cheapest i can find is £180! So, that may have to wait a while as that's outside my budget unless you know of a cheaper source?
I've been reading through Aus and African D3/4 users and there are a nice list of spares and "just in case" parts they take along. Brake switches and sensor's are the main ones.
For range, i have the diesel version so range is better for me, could stick a long range tank under it for real range if needed. However they cost and budget is not huge.
I've driven both D3 and D90's. They both have plus and minus points. A lot of my D3/4 driving friends have a cheap D90 for off road use. ( we in the UK are blessed with having loads of the things to use ) There are some lanes that we have driven on that the D90's have struggled up and the D3 has walked up. Plus lanes that the D3 has struggled on that the D90's haven't. The long wheel base has caught me out a few times when doing an off road competition that had courses designed around D90's. It beached a couple of times and i don't have full underbody protection yet to slide off things.
However, when we do go on the bi-annual off road trips, all the D90 drivers give me the fingers as i sail past enjoying what i call "S class mode"
The route i would take is to go from Scotland, through Europe before going down Africa to Cape Town, then heading East to Singapore and then heading home.
LR Max
Local Oaf
My favorite was when the D1's first came out. The dust at Uwharrie was super thick. Everyone was on the radio saying it was so dusty in their open top Defenders they couldn't see their gauge clusters.
One D1 owner got on and said, "Its so dusty, I can't find the air recirculate button on the AC."
Negative words were spoken after that.
One D1 owner got on and said, "Its so dusty, I can't find the air recirculate button on the AC."
Negative words were spoken after that.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
That sounds great. So you will ship the vehicle out of S.A.?
The ironic thing now of course, I was doing a trip up in Maine on some super dusty dirt roads. The V8 in my D2 wouldn't make the trip if I had the A/C on(1 fuel stop), and the Tdi Defender I was with was blasting the A/C with the windows up and still had more fuel than I did, and I started with 5 more gallons and refueled 10 or so gallons halfway through.
My D2 was plastered with dust on the interior, still is!
I would like to drive it back out of S.A and head round east in it. I've a book from LR about the 1,000,000th Disco and it's overland trip, i fancy seeing a few of the sites they passed through and see Nepal as well.
Also to drive part of the Silk trail.
I've build up a list of countries i wish to see and things i want to do.
The longer i leave this the more that list grows....
So the basic point is, take the D3. Just learn the car some more and go for it?