marktutone
Adventurer
Go ahead and set it up. Put a link on this thread.
More proof that Jeep is the leader in 4x4 overland vehicles
- Thread starter marktutone
- Start date
Go ahead and set it up. Put a link on this thread.
LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
redthies
Renaissance Redneck
You mean like how we have been asking (begging really) Jeep to put the CRD into JKs? How will you feel when they unveil the next generation JK that is highly speculated by the automotive press to be an IFS vehicle?
Toyota still makes and sells the 70 series, and Landrover still makes and sells the Defender. The only reason we don't see them in North America is because the US government has set up protectionist tariffs on certain classes of vehicles (to keep US automakers from losing an entire segment of the market), and that makes them prohibitively expensive to import.
I own a JK Rubicon for one reason: I can't get a 70 series here. If it were available I would have one in the driveway. The Jeep is arguably the best that is available NEW in North America. (I have driven the new Tacoma, and "FJ" cruiser, but can't stand them. Haven't tried a 4Runner, and would love to). But is Jeep the best available outside North America? NOT A CHANCE!!!
(I waited 408posts for this to get intelligent, and nope. Not happening.)
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marktutone
Adventurer
Redthies:
Toyota still makes and sells the 70 series, and Landrover still makes and sells the Defender. The only reason we don't see them in North America is because the US government has set up protectionist tariffs on certain classes of vehicles (to keep US automakers from losing an entire segment of the market), and that makes them prohibitively expensive to import.
(I waited 408posts for this to get intelligent, and nope. Not happening.)
Here let me help you become more intelligent.
There are no tariffs on certain classes of vehicles. They are not sold in this country because they do not meet minimum EPA and Safety Standards.
Now you are more intelligent.
Quote from Expedition Portal Moderator:
haven
Expedition Portal Moderator Expedition Leader :
Toyota never certified the 70 series vehicles with the USA EPA and NTHSA. If you try to import a LandCruiser 78 Troop Carrier, you have to bring it into compliance with the applicable emissions and safety equipment within a set period of time (6 months? a year?). If you are not able to get the needed approvals, then the vehicle has to be exported or destroyed.
There are importers who specialize in bringing vehicles up to USA code. The process is very expensive. For a vehicle from the 70 series, this could mean crash testing to verify that the vehicle's bumper and frame absorb crash energy the way the government has mandated. This might make sense if you plan to import a large number of vehicles, but for a single truck it's way too expensive.
There is provision in the laws for importing a vehicle over a certain age. For EPA, vehicles over 21 years of age don't need to comply with emissions rules. For NHTSA, the vehicle age is 25 years. Since you have to meet both sets of regulations, the 25 year period is the rule you hear mentioned.
So if you can find a Land Cruiser 78 that was manufactured in 1984 or early 1985, you can import it without much additional expense.
Once a vehicle clears customs, it still has to pass inspection in the state in which you plan to register it. Some states are very lax about inspections. Others can be very fussy. California has very strict inspections for older vehicles, for example. So you might have to do additional work (or file petitions) to get the OK from your state DMV.
Occasionally you'll find a 70 series vehicle with a USA license plate. Proffitt's Cruisers in Colorado owns one. You might contact them to find out how they managed to do it.
Frankly, you'd spend a lot less money by finding a LandCruiser 45 or 55 in ok condition. These vehicles were imported to USA by Toyota, so they are legal. Then pay a company like Proffitt's to put fix it up, maybe including the installation of a diesel engine.
Here's an FJ55 in Atlanta for $1500 http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/2072527445.html
Here's one in LA for $1700 http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv...066549811.html
Here's one without engine in Spokane for $650 http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/2071673245.html
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
Thanks Phil,
As for cost, my advice is to free wildcamp as much as possible, and cook your own food as much as possible.
Those two expenses are huge if you're not careful.
I tried to drive on paved roads as little as possible - I spent entire weeks not going above 2nd gear in the Jeep in the mountains of Peru, and the back roads of Bolivia. Remember though, on a 40k mile expedition, it's backroading, not offroading.
This is not a weekend trip less than 100 miles from a McDonald's where NAPA can overnight you anything you might break while playing the mud/rocks/whatever.
When you say you looked for pics of the Jeep loaded - I already posted them. That's literally EVERYTHING I had in the Jeep. Nothing on the roof, nothing outside on the spare tire, etc. etc.
gear list before I left is here: http://theroadchoseme.com/on-the-road
Gear review of the major items when I finished is here: http://theroadchoseme.com/gear-review
What would I do differently? Nothing. If I was doing the Pan-Am for the first time again, I'd do it exactly the same. By hitting the road with no mods and not extras, it meant I actually got to hit the road, and not stay at home for a year or two more buying stuff like winches and big bumpers that I didn't need.
Next vehicle will have inside space so I can escape the bad weather/bugs/sleep inside when I feel insecure.
-Dan
LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
Thanks for the response your trip is truly inspirational given your minimal travel items and your jeep obviously served you well! Im figuring out how to navigate your web site and have a lot of cool reading ahead. All your documentation is appreciated.
Dan, You would be an excellent person to ask the question here - What was the most common brand of vehicle you saw on your journey?
redthies
Renaissance Redneck
I'd be far better of just buying a 84-86 BJ70 which Toyota sold in Canada in those years, or a BJ60 or HJ60 which they also sold here during the same period. The purpose of this thread is discussion of NEW vehicles. I am also an experienced importer and exporter of vehicles in and out of North America. Thus, I beg to differ and will maintain that I have learned nothing new. Yet. I still hold out hope:elkgrin:
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
You're very welcome. Please fire away with any questions you have, I really enjoy helping others
I'm a car guy, and I kept my eye out for cars / brands / models like a hawk. I grew up in Australia, so I'm always intrigued to see what countries have what.
Below I'll focus mostly on 4x4s and "overland" type vehicles, because that's what we're interested in.
As for cars, I would say either Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla were absolutely everywhere, and I mean everywhere.
Most of central America felt like mostly Toyota pickups and older American stuff (Ford, Chevy, GM). Also Mitsubishis, VW Diesel Amarocks.
The exception was the "expensive" CA countries like Costa Rica and Panama which for all intents and purposes looked like the USA does today when it comes to pickups and 4x4s. i.e. dealerships for all the NA brands everywhere. Jeeps common in the expensive countries, not in the poor ones.
South America was an immediate change - Citroens and Renos and other European stuff (that I know next to nothing about). VW Amarock's too (NICE!)
Still lots of older Toyota pickups, and older American stuff. I would say Ford / GM were still around. Mercedes etc were around for big trucks / buses.
Mitsubishi had a presence in the 4x4 scene for sure. Including Patrols, Pajeros, and 4x4 vans too (like Delica)
Poorer countries that needed serious 4x4s went straight for very old Land Cruisers. Old rust buckets with diesels and sold axles.
Every country has very new, nice diesel Toyota Hiluxes too, and new diesel mitsu pickups too.
Jeep was not around in most SA countries until approx. Chile and Argentina, when I would see nice CRD JKs getting around, and Grand Cherokees too.
Interestingly, at one point I went with locals to get parts for their Merc bus in a huge city in Ecuador - we spent and entire day in the "car" district of town, getting prices, going in and out of every shop. I saw every single brand of car I've ever heard of represented in the stores, though I never once saw Jeep (and I was looking). I did find a Jeep dealer in Ecuador.
Same story when I spent days in the car district of Cusco, Peru. (Peru has a Jeep dealer too)
While Toyota pickups seem to be everywhere (especially older ones), I would by no means say I saw Land Cruisers commonly - especially not newer 80s/100s/200s. They were a once a week thing, and Land Rover were not around - other than European Expos. I could count on two hands the number of Defenders (90 or 110) that I saw that were not foreigners.
Luis from Lost World Expedition drove a landcruiser 60, and he says the parts thing is a myth - he hunted for weeks and weeks to get parts for what is supposed to be a common Land Cruiser.
To try to sum it up - I would have to say 80s or 90s Toyota pickups were the most common "4x4" I saw - though I really don't think it matters.
Driving around the world is adventure, and it has hickups and problems. If I was worried about getting parts quickly and easily, I'd never drive more than 10 miles from a NAPA.
Rock Auto.com will ship to any country in the world - so if I was really in a bind I would have ordered something, and spent a couple of weeks hiking or surfing or whatever, then continued on. No big deal at all. Of course, my Jeep never had a single mechanical issue
-Dan
jscusmcvet
Explorer
Honestly blows my mind. In the years I have been participating on Expo, this is the most replied to thread I have ever seen. Basically a "mine is bigger than yours" series of tantrums going on, over and over. Disheartening to say the least.
There are a few comments that contribute to the conversation such as #152 from Martin, where he comments about vehicles he has encountered across the world. That is called reporting. He just gave what he saw, where and did not judge it one way or another. I am sure there are other good posts also, but I stopped reading the rest of this thread. Put this discussion around the campfire, with a few beverages and smile at each other, ooh and ahhh over the vehicle you DON"T have. (Psst... we all know that what you DO have is the greatest in the world). Part ways better for it.
Come on guys. You are better than this.
There are a few comments that contribute to the conversation such as #152 from Martin, where he comments about vehicles he has encountered across the world. That is called reporting. He just gave what he saw, where and did not judge it one way or another. I am sure there are other good posts also, but I stopped reading the rest of this thread. Put this discussion around the campfire, with a few beverages and smile at each other, ooh and ahhh over the vehicle you DON"T have. (Psst... we all know that what you DO have is the greatest in the world). Part ways better for it.
Come on guys. You are better than this.
marktutone
Adventurer
Yes this thread has gone sideways. I purposely titled it they way I did because I new I would get a reaction out of the Toyota and Land Rover crowd. I own a Land Cruiser and a Jeep TJ. Both are good vehicles. Around the campfire as you say I always have heard Toyota is the only way to go for overlanding. Then I ask why. They say parts, reliability and just all around better vehicle. I want to dispel that myth. I have a blog @ commonao.com. I post videos about overlanding and 4x4 travel from around the world. After about the first 6 months of doing this blog I really could not believe how many Jeep fans there are around the world. They are very enthusiastic about there love for jeep. I am talking about Japan, Pakistan, Russia all of Central and South America Australia. These people are doing some serious travel in remote areas. I am sorry it has gotten ugly on this thread but sometimes it is good to debate issues. I have learned some things and I hope other people have learned also. I have 3 years until I retire @ 50. I hope to be a heavy contributor with videos and pictures from all of the Americas.
I can only report on Tanzania but if you see a Jeep over there its rare. They have one dealership which I always stop in, but just from talking to them getting parts would be hard.
Thats the reason we own a Toyota there, can get any part you need with in a day no matter where you are in the country.
There maybe a lot of people who like to own Jeeps there ( my wifes Uncle owns 2 TJs) but he rarely drives them except on special occasions since he afraid to wear them out ( his words)
Really I can't see where Jeep is a world leader in 4X4 overland vehicles and I've been a Jeep owner since 1972 so I should support them. Yes I've read about others owning them the world over but just don't think they are
Thats the reason we own a Toyota there, can get any part you need with in a day no matter where you are in the country.
There maybe a lot of people who like to own Jeeps there ( my wifes Uncle owns 2 TJs) but he rarely drives them except on special occasions since he afraid to wear them out ( his words)
Really I can't see where Jeep is a world leader in 4X4 overland vehicles and I've been a Jeep owner since 1972 so I should support them. Yes I've read about others owning them the world over but just don't think they are
LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
Who do you see as the leader in the 4x4 overland market from your location and why do you think that is?