Moving back to the States, what vehicle?

[aluke0510]

I am currently planning to move back to the States before too long from having lived in Namibia. I am trying to decide what vehicle to purchase on return. It sure is a tough decision in the States. Sure there is a bigger selection and larger trucks... but they compromise a lot.

My criteria is:
Reliable
Payload capacity
Safe
Aftermarket parts selection
Fuel economy (want at least 18mpg highway stock)

Now I perfectly understand that there has to be compromises. My current thought is Toyota Tundra (hince posting in the Toyota section). Original thought was a Toyota Tacoma or Land Rover Discovery II.

The part I am struggling so much with is payload capacity. By the time you start adding on tires, suspension, storage systems, dual batteries, air compressor, fridge, air locker, front bumper, lights, etc. you have nearly used up all the payload capacity when you add in two 180lbs adults. That leaves nothing for gear, water, extra fuel, and food. I am quite positive that most of the Tacomas I see on hear once fully loaded with everything including passengers exceed the GVWR. Now that isn't a problem off road; but, on road it is a big problem if you are ever in an accident... And you pretty much have to drive on road to get off road.

This leads me to think more about a full size truck. But even then how on earth does the Hilux and new Ford Ranger have a higher payload capacity than the Tundra? So going bigger doesn't even help that much because bigger means bigger add on parts...

Organized storage is important to me, I want to get to what I need when I need it. I want storage area behind the front seats for my photography equipment and a fridge. I will easily sacrifice a roof top tent/flipac for a ground tent to save weight; that is much easier too allowing me to set up a base camp with out tearing down and setting up constantly. There are other ways to keep loads down too like not changing clothes, small backpacking stoves, etc.

So what thoughts are out there?

What I really want first is the new Ford Ranger. Oh man those are fantastic; quite confidently say I enjoyed driving it much better than Hiluxes. And it stakes up head to head with the Hilux in almost every way except aftermarket parts which is improving by the day...




My thought was pull the bed on a Tacoma or Tundra and redesign a custom bed/storage system. Pulling the bed allows me to integrate a lot into the bed so there is less wasted weight. Pulling the bed gives me probably 700lbs to play with (weight of bed + camper shell + rear bumper with swing + storage solutions). Every camper shell/bed drawer system has a lot of wasted weight. With a complete redesign I can integrate a lot into it. I have several thoughts, the main one is doing something similar to the Adventure Trailers design with one full size flat pull out bed/drawer using the industrial fiberglass grating for the bottom and skipping the hinged top. Using duffels for organization with more storage on top of the bed using rails or tie downs, etc. Side mount spare as it probably isn't going to fit easily in stock location and saves me the weight of a big rear bumper with swing. Nothing sitting higher than the cab height keeping it aerodynamic.

My other thought was a Discovery but the reliability, fuel economy, and storage solutions lead me away from it. Second thought was a old late model Land Cruiser or Defender but safety and reliability lead me away from them. Then there are Ford F150, Chevy 1500, and Dodge 1500... Among several other SUV's; not a fan of SUV's because there is so much wasted space and weight getting it set up to carry only two people and keeping it organized with a full load of gear.

 

[fowldarr]

Love my tundra, I got the 4.6, which gives marginally better gas mileage, hauls my family and all of our camping gear with no complaints.

 

[STREGA]

A Tacoma with a off road trailer should solve the GVWR concerns you have. Reliability, safety, aftermarket support and fuel economy should also be within your criteria as well.

 

[haven]

"how on earth does the Hilux and new Ford Ranger have a higher payload capacity than the Tundra..."

It's a matter of engineering to carry the extra weight. The HiLux and Ranger have frame, suspension and brakes designed to deal with a load up to 2200 lb. The Tundra, in single cab configuration, is rated to carry about 1800 lb. The Tacoma, about 1300 lb depending on configuration.

In most places where the HiLux is sold, it's Toyota's only pickup truck. So it's used to carry the kind of weight we'd use an F250 or GM 2500 series truck to carry.

If you want a Tacoma to carry more weight than it's designed to carry, there are aftermarket suspension firms that can provide airbags or heavier springs. Remember that your tires, brakes and engine cooling system will be affected by the extra weight, too.

Here's an article that shows how one Tacoma owner is dealing with the weight of a camper
http://www.overlandexpo.com/overland-tech-travel/2012/12/1/leveling-the-jatac.html

 

[aluke0510]

"how on earth does the Hilux and new Ford Ranger have a higher payload capacity than the Tundra..."

It's a matter of engineering to carry the extra weight. The HiLux and Ranger have frame, suspension and brakes designed to deal with a load up to 2200 lb. The Tundra, in single cab configuration, is rated to carry about 1800 lb. The Tacoma, about 1300 lb depending on configuration.

In most places where the HiLux is sold, it's Toyota's only pickup truck. So it's used to carry the kind of weight we'd use an F250 or GM 2500 series truck to carry.

If you want a Tacoma to carry more weight than it's designed to carry, there are aftermarket suspension firms that can provide airbags or heavier springs. Remember that your tires, brakes and engine cooling system will be affected by the extra weight, too.

Here's an article that shows how one Tacoma owner is dealing with the weight of a camper
http://www.overlandexpo.com/overland-tech-travel/2012/12/1/leveling-the-jatac.html

Upgrading suspension on a Tacoma does nothing for making it legal to have a higher than rated GVWR. The real question is what does it take to increase the rating? Probably lots of inspections and testing making it cost more than it is worth. That guy is in trouble if he is ever in a wreck or goes through a weigh station.

As far as the Hilux goes the stock suspension is not designed for the load it is rated for. Having used Hilux's quite a bit I can positively say that. Ever seen 15 Africans piled in the bed of a Hilux? It is riding on bump stops...

And every place the Hilux is sold so is the Land Cruiser which is equivalent in size to a full size truck.

And look at the Nissan Frontier equivalent. The same exact truck in Africa is rated for twice the payload. The US is just under rating the GVWR on everything sold.

 

[Containerized]

I agree with aluke that the differences aren't as big as the ratings would suggest. Partly because there are things like liability (and laws and courts and inspections and governments) in America and there basically aren't over here. The closest thing to an inspection here is a cop asking for a small bribe because you don't have the particular warning triangle he specified (and because he's hungry).

The 70 Series pickup is used more like Americans use their large pickups. The Hilux is really used in areas like where we live, where there are basically no paved roads.

The OME suspension on the Hilux seems to create a tougher vehicle with less suspension sag than a similarly-loaded OME-equipped Tacoma, though.

 

[haven]

You're saying the HiLux, the Frontier and the Tacoma are all overweight with the typical camper setup. So they all need help in the suspension department to carry the load of a camper without losing most of their wheel travel.

In USA, there are two solutions.

1. Buy a full size truck capable of handling the weight you expect to carry.
2. Modify the mid-size truck's suspension.

You should look closely at full size trucks before choosing the Tacoma. Fuel economy of the full size truck is very close, if not better, than the mid-size. USA truck designers are infected with a "make it look like a Peterbilt" disease, so the full size trucks look massive. However, they generally are only 6 or 7 inches wider than the Tacoma. That's less than the distance your outside mirror sticks out. The short wheelbase full size trucks have a relatively small turning circle.

 

[haven]

Here's a discussion about the differences between HiLux and Tacoma. One important difference is that the HiLux has a fully boxed frame, while the Tacoma (and the Tundra) frame is boxed at the front only.
http://www.brian894x4.com/Hiluxdifferences.html

If I remember correctly, Containerized strengthened the frame of his custom Tacoma before shipping it to Africa.

More about the differences in this thread, particularly on page 2
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...is-the-difference-between-a-Hi-Lux-and-Tacoma

Incidentally, the T100, Toyota's first effort to market a larger pickup in USA, is about the same size as the current HiLux and Tacoma, and has the HiLux's stronger frame. Carrying capacity is rated at 1800 lb. The T100 was sold in USA from 1993-1997.

 

[aluke0510]

Improving suspension only makes it possible to have a higher than rated GVWR, it does not make it legal.

On further investigation it seems the 4Runner has a higher payload capacity than even the Tundra (Except regular cab long bed model). More confusion to how these ratings are happening, the 4Runner is even heavier than the Tacoma. How many parts do the 4Runner and Tacoma have in common? Is the Tacoma just such a poorly designed combo that one little bolt is reducing the payload capacity by 800lbs over the 4Runner (difference between curb weight and payload differences)? Or are the manufactures severely under rating the payload for their trucks so they can sell the more expensive larger model?

On average the Tundra's payload capacity is only 150lbs more than the equivalent Tacoma. Larger vehicle and worse fuel economy for an additional 150lbs payload? Better off to make the occupants go on a diet, if all 4 occupants loose 37.5lbs you now have the same payload in a Tacoma as a Tundra.

Could be I need to look into Ford more.

Here you go (total weight of gear + truck modifications + fuel + occupants must stay below this number to remain legal):
Tundra Double Cab Short Bed 5.7L 4x4 (1450lbs)
Tundra Regular Cab Long Bed 5.7L 4x4 (1820lbs)
Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 4.0L (1290lbs)
4Runner 4x4 4.0L SR5 (1620lbs)

Looks like I need to figure out how to make the 4Runner fit my purposes more also. How hard is it to pull the back seats? I think 4Runner cost sits right between Tacoma and Tundra correct? Are US sold 4Runners made in Japan or Brazil?

 

[Laxaholic]

From where in Namibia?

Spent some time in Walvis Bay and Swakopmund, cool place. Do you call traffic signals "robots" as well?

 

[aluke0510]

From where in Namibia?

Spent some time in Walvis Bay and Swakopmund, cool place. Do you call traffic signals "robots" as well?

Swakop. Yep, call them robots. When I first heard people telling me to turn left or right at the robot I was very confused; I kept looking for a robot looking landmarks or something resembling a robot where I was suppose to turn left or right... then it clicked that a robot is a street light.

Well it is narrowed down to Tundra regular cab or 4runner, I think. Will sort out a plan for 4runner and do a side by side comparison spreadsheet. Plus will have to wait until I return, who knows when that will be right now (6months to 1yr). Then some test driving to see if the size of the Tundra is a big negative... drove a 94 F150 long bed for a while and it was hard enough to park.

Perhaps find an old T100 with the 1ton package cheap and have dieseltoyz drop a diesel in and do some rebuilds for just a bit more cost than a new Tundra...

4runner:
More compact/maneuverable
Better gas mileage
Requires a lot of reinvisioning for storage, last thing I want is a roof rack
Spare tire mounting severely reduces visibility

Tundra:
Longer and bulkier (would prefer a short bed but payload limit is much lower)
Split bench seat is a huge bonus
Worse gas mileage
More expensive to build how I envision but very doable and more secure storage than 4runner
Power and payload exceeds what I think I need

 

[CMDavenport]

I'm on my 4th 4RNR, so I'm a bit biased. I got 325K miles on my '99 and sold it with the engine still tight. Now have an '06 and get 18MPG on long hauls on highway, 14MPG with mixed use. Tundra and Sequoia are too big for me, would buy (used) LC200 before either. With all my 4RNRS, rarely do I want for capacity, but when I do I use 3 yakama cross bars an extened basket case. Its not as fancy as Brownchurch or Hannibal, but works well for additional cargo up top. Unless you are going diesel, 18MPG with big interior cargo is a very tough spec to meet.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I'm curious, how much stuff are you carrying that you would max out a Tacoma or a Tundra? Before you start beefing up axles/suspension/brakes or fabricating a new bed (both of which would be expensive), why not try to see if you can get by with less stuff? It's not like you're hauling a family of 5 around, right? You said it was two people. I find it hard to believe that 2 people can't sustain themselves for a pretty long time with the amount of gear that a Tacoma could pack.

Unless your travels require you to carry a lot of specialized equipment, a compact truck should suit your needs just fine. Now, if the purpose of your travels requires you to carry things like generators, big electonics boxes, batteries and other spares, and so on, then I could understand the limitations of the compact truck (there's a reason you don't see too many compact trucks where there is work being done.) But if the purpose of your travels is recreational, and the truck just has to carry enough to sustain and shelter you, that doesn't really weigh that much, nor does it take that much room. Hell, people explore the world on motorcycles or even on bicycles, so just having a motorized 4-wheeled vehicle puts you pretty far ahead of the game.

Also if some of your weight calculations are based on assuming that you have to carry a lot of spare parts, that may be neccessary in Africa (where spares could be weeks away) but for travel in most of North America, that's not a requirement.

I realize that you are just starting on your research, so I'm sure a lot will change. But you might want to re-evaluate some of your basic assumptions about what is "neccessary."

As for your question on the 4runner, AFAIK all 4runners are made in Japan. Certainly all the ones sold in the US are.

 

[XPEDITIONREADY]

I am wondering what your fear is in a weight higher than what the vehicle is rated? Is it for your every day driving safety or others you may or may not have an accident with? I would be more worried about steel bumpers on any truck that a lawyer may have a field day with more than a vehicle being overweight. Modifying any vehicle puts you at risk because thats not how the manufacturer intended it to be nor was it tested like that. If you are worried about a vehicle being over the tag weight rating then buy a "weighted" tag so a state trooper cant say anything if the truck was ever weighed.

Ben

 

[aluke0510]

@Martinjmpr

Here is my weight estimates:
2 people, 350lbs
Front bumper, additional 50lbs over stock
Rear bumper, additional 50lbs over stock
Fridge, 30lbs
Second battery + controller + inverter, 50lbs
Tall skinny tires, 50lbs additional over stock
Suspension, 50lbs additional over stock
Fuel, 250lbs
Water, 85lbs
Camping supplies, 100lbs
Rear Locker, 50lbs
Recovery gear, 150lbs
Photography equipment, 100lbs
Food, 50lbs
Climbing equipment, 50lbs
Other (Clothes, first aid, storage, random electronics), 30lbs

Total, 1495lbs

I don't feel that this is all that over necessity. I guess there may be a bit of contingency in the weight estimates I used but whose to say I won't put on beefier skid plates and sliders and lights... I need to support 3 weeks out. Since I usually travel with just one vehicle it is important that it is a bit over built and full recovery kit. Usually setting up a base camp every 5-6days. I have been on many 2 week mountaineering trips carrying only 100lbs/person and I know I can get by with bare minimum; but even then that doesn't take more than 200lbs off the vehicle. A lot of the weight is coming from add ons, human weight, and fuel/water.

Note that as you start adding on camper shell (50+lbs), rooftop tent (100+lbs), storage drawers (50lbs), sliders, skid plates, awnings, tables, etc. weight just keeps going up.

Take this rig for example:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/tacoma/index.html

GVWR is 5,100lbs
Curb weight listed is 5,300lbs
So even this Tacoma has already exceeded the legal limit and I don't know if that listed curb weight includes fuel, food, water, humans, clothes, standard camping equipment, etc.

So from my seat that makes a Tacoma come in over the legal limit. That pretty much just leaves the 4Runner, full size truck, Land Cruiser, and Land Rover fitting the bill. But I do seem to see the 4Runner being the better option. The 4Runner seems to have a fantastically good payload capacity for the size/weight of the vehicle over the Tacoma. And with the 4Runner you get the advantage of pulling things out like rear seats, etc. saving a bit of weight. I know with a long bed Tundra I would have the payload I need but at the sacrifice of way more space than I need and higher fuel consumption forcing me to carry even more additional weight in fuel.

Looking at just the weight it seems like a lot but when you start adding up all the small contributors it doesn't take too long before you hit the limit. Just take for instance the Trail edition 4Runner vs the SR5, 100lbs more for the trail edition.