MWO - Project "Ambo" 1991 F350

I have this posted in the camper van section as well, but this might be a little more fitting here since it is a truck. Here's my 1991 F350 Wheeled Coach Type 1 Ambulance that I picked up in January. I plan to convert this into our camping/expo rig for future trips and leave my Tundra at home.

20160103_110259.jpg

20160103_110412.jpg

20160103_110242.jpg


I'ts currently a 2WD dually, but i'm wanting to convert it to 4WD to get the family off the beaten path.

Future plans:
  • 4WD Conversion
  • Pull out bed
  • Front winch bumper w/winch

For the time being though, we are just going to get it out and use it at some state parks.

Anyone ever taken a 2WD F350 and did a 4x4 conversion? I'd like to run a D60 up front and maybe keep the dualies in the rear for added stability.
 

mp_tx

Observer
I will be following your conversion. I have a 91 F350 wheeled coach but it's 4x4 and converted to singles in the back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

pappawheely

Autonomous4X4
I have this posted in the camper van section as well, but this might be a little more fitting here since it is a truck. Here's my 1991 F350 Wheeled Coach Type 1 Ambulance that I picked up in January. I plan to convert this into our camping/expo rig for future trips and leave my Tundra at home.

20160103_110259.jpg

20160103_110412.jpg

20160103_110242.jpg


I'ts currently a 2WD dually, but i'm wanting to convert it to 4WD to get the family off the beaten path.

Future plans:
  • 4WD Conversion
  • Pull out bed
  • Front winch bumper w/winch

For the time being though, we are just going to get it out and use it at some state parks.

Anyone ever taken a 2WD F350 and did a 4x4 conversion? I'd like to run a D60 up front and maybe keep the dualies in the rear for added stability.

Nice project. That front bumper is, interesting. :) I need those horns!

I will be following your conversion. I have a 91 F350 wheeled coach but it's 4x4 and converted to singles in the back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have a build thread?
 

underdrive

jackwagon
Anyone ever taken a 2WD F350 and did a 4x4 conversion? I'd like to run a D60 up front and maybe keep the dualies in the rear for added stability.
Yup, our do-it-all truck was a 2wd F350 dually when it left the factory, auto too - now she's got the proper D60 up front, limited slip diffs in both axles, and is also a 5-speed with custom-built t-case (allows PTO installation yet has a fixed-yoke rear output, they never came like that). She winches, lifts, pushes snow (well, leaves and dirt mostly), carries a camper, pulls a trailer, yada yada yada...

K, onto the details - first and foremost you will need a D60 axle. You can use any '86-'97 F350 front axle, there are some variations ('86-'91 are kingpins setup, '92-'95 are have ball joints but the same brake caliper setup as the kingpins, '96-'97 have the same ball joints as the previous version but now come with bolt-on calipers and brackets) but they all fit exactly the same way. Ideally you'd want an axle that came out of a dually truck, but if you can't find one or the cost is prohibitive you can use an axle out of a single-wheel truck and either run single-style wheels on it (you'll need to carry two spare wheels then) or add aftermarket bolt-on adapters to make it accept the dually wheels you now have. If you plan on regearing the axles keep that in mind when looking for a front axle, regearing a Dana axle is annoying at best if you do it yourself and expensive if you pay someone to do it, so you're best off finding one that already has the gears you want - for trucks of that vintage you get to choose between 3.55 and 4.10 gear ratios, I'll discuss them a bit later on.

Next up, actually attaching said axle to the frame. This is really fun, you get to play with a torch and a grinder and an air hammer and a big ol hammer :D Basically you strip everything down to bare frame rails, and start anew. You can copy the factory setup with front-mounted shackles but that doesn't ride very well at all, and tends to wander going down the road even with all new bushings and steering linkages. The typical way of correcting this is by installing what's known as a "reversed shackle kit" (RSK), it bolts the springs to the frame in the front and puts the shackles behind the axle, the end result is a much nicer ride and somewhat better steering. Either way you do it you'll be needing a bunch of brackets and you'll be drilling a bunch of holes, in case of the RSKs you'll probably be doing some welding too. The way I'd go about it would be as follows:
- for the very front of the frame rails, this whole kit: http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FORD-FSROB-002
- for the frame behind the front axle, these hangers: http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FORD-FSSH-001
- for attaching the tracbar to the frame, this bracket in 3" drop: http://www.pmfsuspension.com/OBS-Track-Bar-Bracket_p_16.html
- for making the steering box work with the D60, this pitman arm: http://www.pmfsuspension.com/1988-1997-F-250350-Drop-Pitman-Arm_p_19.html
You'll notice the Sky brackets give you 2.5" lift, while the PMF parts are for 3" - what this will do is make your steering draglink and the tracbar more level, the factory geometry isn't exactly ideal in this regard, more level is better.

Obviously you'll need springs. You can get the direct-replacement diesel-spec springs for a '86-'97 4x4 F350, or you can use softer ones for a truck with a small-block gas engine and add air springs on top of them. We're running the softer leaves with the air bellows, it's a great setup for keeping the ride height and thus steering and headlight alignment consistent regardless of load, but you'll obviously need a source of compressed air to fill them up as needed (yes, a small electric compressor for tires will work for this purpose, as long as you don't mess with them very often).

For shocks attachment, you'll need the towers off a 4x4 F250 or 350. Jeff's Bronco Graveyard carries these reasonably priced, I'd suggest that you get the '92-'97 version with the 4 mounting holes instead of the earlier with just two holes. You'll be drilling the frame anyways, might as well distribute the loads better while you're at it.

K, now we got the front suspension out the way, let's move onto the driveline - your 2wd transmission has no way of powering the front axle, you need a transfer case for that and the 2wd trans cannot directly accept that. One exception to this general rule, if you currently have a driveline parking brake hanging off the back of the trans, you can remove that and install a t-case in its place - however this setup is typical for the F-Superduty trucks (10-lug wheels, still 16" tho), you more than likely do not have it. Which leaves you with two options:
#1 remove the 2wd transmission and replace it with a 4x4 specific one, then bolt up a t-case of your choice to that.
#2 keep your 2wd transmission as is, and install a stand-alone (divorced-mount) t-case between it and the rear axle.
With option #1 you can use all factory parts and everything is pretty much a bolt-on affair (except the rear driveshaft that will need shortening), but you do have the possibly high cost of the 4x4 transmission. With option #2 you don't get to spend money on a new transmission, but you will have a harder time finding a proper transfer case (pretty much only one type available, and nowadays it's not all that common even in salvage yards), you'll be fabricating a crossmember for it to hang off, and now you'll need two driveshafts modified instead of just the rear one. So, pick your poison, if you don't like your current transmission then obviously #1 is the better choice.

Rear axle, could be just a matter of dropping a pair of 4" lift blocks between the axle and the springs. Obviously you'll need longer U-bolts for that as well, those would run about $100 or less usually. There are better ways of going about it all, but they are more involved, this is quick and easy and relatively cheap.

This should about cover it. If you start crunching the numbers you'll realize it's not a cheap upgrade, not by a long shot. Most folks would usually suggest that you buy a donor truck with a blown engine, and get all your needed parts from it, the scrap the rest. Your call how you wanna go about it...
 

underdrive

jackwagon
Forgot to mention earlier, there's another way of getting 4x4 in a 2wd truck, it involves axles from a 2005-up truck - only two brackets to deal with there, and they're still available from the dealerships pretty reasonably. Coil spring tower replacement is IIRC recommended, but not 100% mandatory, and can be completed at a later time if so desired.

Pros:
- you get super-nice ride
- your steering no longer wanders
- you get stronger axles and bigger brakes
- on some trucks e-locker is a factory option

Cons:
- cost of axles, you need both front and rear as the bolt pattern is different (still 8 lugs, but the circle is metric diameter, just a bit larger than what the '91 uses from the factory).
- cost of wheels, you need at least 6 of them, 7 if you wanna carry a spare, 8 for total overkill.
- cost of tires if wheels are larger, and I think they are, 17" vs the 16s you got now.
- fab work needed for the frame-side tracbar mount.
 
Yup, our do-it-all truck was a 2wd F350 dually when it left the factory, auto too - now she's got the proper D60 up front, limited slip diffs in both axles, and is also a 5-speed with custom-built t-case (allows PTO installation yet has a fixed-yoke rear output, they never came like that). She winches, lifts, pushes snow (well, leaves and dirt mostly), carries a camper, pulls a trailer, yada yada yada...

K, onto the details - first and foremost you will need a D60 axle. You can use any '86-'97 F350 front axle, there are some variations ('86-'91 are kingpins setup, '92-'95 are have ball joints but the same brake caliper setup as the kingpins, '96-'97 have the same ball joints as the previous version but now come with bolt-on calipers and brackets) but they all fit exactly the same way. Ideally you'd want an axle that came out of a dually truck, but if you can't find one or the cost is prohibitive you can use an axle out of a single-wheel truck and either run single-style wheels on it (you'll need to carry two spare wheels then) or add aftermarket bolt-on adapters to make it accept the dually wheels you now have. If you plan on regearing the axles keep that in mind when looking for a front axle, regearing a Dana axle is annoying at best if you do it yourself and expensive if you pay someone to do it, so you're best off finding one that already has the gears you want - for trucks of that vintage you get to choose between 3.55 and 4.10 gear ratios, I'll discuss them a bit later on.

Next up, actually attaching said axle to the frame. This is really fun, you get to play with a torch and a grinder and an air hammer and a big ol hammer :D Basically you strip everything down to bare frame rails, and start anew. You can copy the factory setup with front-mounted shackles but that doesn't ride very well at all, and tends to wander going down the road even with all new bushings and steering linkages. The typical way of correcting this is by installing what's known as a "reversed shackle kit" (RSK), it bolts the springs to the frame in the front and puts the shackles behind the axle, the end result is a much nicer ride and somewhat better steering. Either way you do it you'll be needing a bunch of brackets and you'll be drilling a bunch of holes, in case of the RSKs you'll probably be doing some welding too. The way I'd go about it would be as follows:
- for the very front of the frame rails, this whole kit: http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FORD-FSROB-002
- for the frame behind the front axle, these hangers: http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=FORD-FSSH-001
- for attaching the tracbar to the frame, this bracket in 3" drop: http://www.pmfsuspension.com/OBS-Track-Bar-Bracket_p_16.html
- for making the steering box work with the D60, this pitman arm: http://www.pmfsuspension.com/1988-1997-F-250350-Drop-Pitman-Arm_p_19.html
You'll notice the Sky brackets give you 2.5" lift, while the PMF parts are for 3" - what this will do is make your steering draglink and the tracbar more level, the factory geometry isn't exactly ideal in this regard, more level is better.

Obviously you'll need springs. You can get the direct-replacement diesel-spec springs for a '86-'97 4x4 F350, or you can use softer ones for a truck with a small-block gas engine and add air springs on top of them. We're running the softer leaves with the air bellows, it's a great setup for keeping the ride height and thus steering and headlight alignment consistent regardless of load, but you'll obviously need a source of compressed air to fill them up as needed (yes, a small electric compressor for tires will work for this purpose, as long as you don't mess with them very often).

For shocks attachment, you'll need the towers off a 4x4 F250 or 350. Jeff's Bronco Graveyard carries these reasonably priced, I'd suggest that you get the '92-'97 version with the 4 mounting holes instead of the earlier with just two holes. You'll be drilling the frame anyways, might as well distribute the loads better while you're at it.

K, now we got the front suspension out the way, let's move onto the driveline - your 2wd transmission has no way of powering the front axle, you need a transfer case for that and the 2wd trans cannot directly accept that. One exception to this general rule, if you currently have a driveline parking brake hanging off the back of the trans, you can remove that and install a t-case in its place - however this setup is typical for the F-Superduty trucks (10-lug wheels, still 16" tho), you more than likely do not have it. Which leaves you with two options:
#1 remove the 2wd transmission and replace it with a 4x4 specific one, then bolt up a t-case of your choice to that.
#2 keep your 2wd transmission as is, and install a stand-alone (divorced-mount) t-case between it and the rear axle.
With option #1 you can use all factory parts and everything is pretty much a bolt-on affair (except the rear driveshaft that will need shortening), but you do have the possibly high cost of the 4x4 transmission. With option #2 you don't get to spend money on a new transmission, but you will have a harder time finding a proper transfer case (pretty much only one type available, and nowadays it's not all that common even in salvage yards), you'll be fabricating a crossmember for it to hang off, and now you'll need two driveshafts modified instead of just the rear one. So, pick your poison, if you don't like your current transmission then obviously #1 is the better choice.

Rear axle, could be just a matter of dropping a pair of 4" lift blocks between the axle and the springs. Obviously you'll need longer U-bolts for that as well, those would run about $100 or less usually. There are better ways of going about it all, but they are more involved, this is quick and easy and relatively cheap.

This should about cover it. If you start crunching the numbers you'll realize it's not a cheap upgrade, not by a long shot. Most folks would usually suggest that you buy a donor truck with a blown engine, and get all your needed parts from it, the scrap the rest. Your call how you wanna go about it...

Dude, thanks for the all the info! Much appreciated. Cost isn't so much an issue. I'll be hauling my wife and kids in this, so the best way is more important. My initial plans were to buy a donor truck and swap things over, preferably a single cab dually.
 

pappawheely

Autonomous4X4
I have the sky manufacturing shackle reversal kit, including their track bar bracket. It will give you all the brackets you need to mount the leaf springs and give you a great riding truck too.
 

underdrive

jackwagon
Dude, thanks for the all the info! Much appreciated. Cost isn't so much an issue. I'll be hauling my wife and kids in this, so the best way is more important. My initial plans were to buy a donor truck and swap things over, preferably a single cab dually.
Ok, a heads-up here, in those years the only dually you could buy in 4x4 from the factory would be a cab-chassis truck - so that means flatbeds, dumps, utility box, ambo, etc. - no pickup beds. Typically such work trucks got the 4.10 gearing, and were used hard. If you do get such a truck, might as well plan on a complete rebuild for that D60, which admittedly you should plan on anyways, just for reliability's sake and peace of mind.

Really tho a single-wheel truck will work just as good. The Arrowcraft AA4 hub extenders to run dually wheels are only $350 for the pair, they simply bolt onto the axle instead of the singe-style wheels, and you bolt your dually wheel to them - this is actually very similar to what Dodge was doing for years as a factory setup, heck maybe they're still doing it. Here's what they look like, it's the bottom item on the page, the top one you don't need as you already got a dually-specific rear axle: http://wheeladapter.com/dually_adapters.php

What transmission and rear axle gearing you have in that ambo now anyways? If don't know for sure, if you provide the axle (AX slot) and transmission (TRANS slot) codes off the door jamb label I can look them up in our '91 owners manual and tell you what you're working with :D

I have the sky manufacturing shackle reversal kit, including their track bar bracket. It will give you all the brackets you need to mount the leaf springs and give you a great riding truck too.
Pappa, you got one of their OBS kit, it does in fact include the rear hangers for under the cab. The kit for the '91-down trucks is a new development, till recently it didn't exist and so folks were left with modifying their frame rails in whatever manner they saw fit to make them boxed and in the proper width to fit an OBS kit. With the '91-down kit now you get special ready-made inserts for your frame rails to accomplish the boxing, so you no longer have to custo-fab stuff, just burn in what they send you. Also if you look at the picture does not show the rear hangers, and they're not mentioned in the list of included parts, same for the tracbar bracket. But you do get their nice adjustable tracbar, which is quite nice. I guess it's a trade off, you lose one thing you gain another, but regardless, a call or email to Sky will clear things up, in my experience they are very nice to deal with, and yes I agree with you, they make good products as well. We're semi-debating their rear shackle flip setup to get rid of our lift blocks, tho this is still up in the air as we're at the same rate entertaining the idea of widening the frame to accommodate Econoline axles (the E450 is rated at over 9000 lbs GAWR!!!) at which point we may simply relocated the hangers down a bit...
 
First things first. Finally got around to buying new batteries today. Picked up 2x new Interstate MT7 AGM 770CCA bats for the truck and dropped them off with my dad. He's planning on driving it around for a few days and then hopefully I can drive down next weekend and bring it home.
 

underdrive

jackwagon
What was the point of said bumper extension anyways? Just to move the bumper forward enough so the air horns don't stick out past it? Don't throw it out just yet, you may want to reinstall it after you do your 4x4 swap if you drop in a big enough winch in the front of the truck....
 
What was the point of said bumper extension anyways? Just to move the bumper forward enough so the air horns don't stick out past it? Don't throw it out just yet, you may want to reinstall it after you do your 4x4 swap if you drop in a big enough winch in the front of the truck....

I'm not sure, that's how it was when I bought it. The airhorns are the only thing that I could see that was ever bolted to it. I've only ever seen one other F350 ambo with said extensions. I'm getting a custom bumper fab'd up for a winch.
 

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