My Angry Defender Rant.

[MattScott]

I'd love to see a new defender, why would a buy something new, when I can get something from the early 80's thats almost exactly the same?

I'll spend my money on a Defender's here are just a 35k stripped down disco, everything I'd ever do in a Defender, I'd do in a Disco. Can someone please tell me why the heck these things are so expensive, it's like an unreliable wrangler that you can go play expedition in on the way to the mall. (no offense to the people that actually use these vehicles, but you know the type.) MAYBE I would buy a Defender when they brought one here with the following options:

A fuel tank bigger than my bladder, 14-15 gallons is a joke. I dont care what you think, I'm not carrying jerry cans everywhere I go, even if it looks ************. My Disco doesn't go very long between fillups with a 24 gallon tank.

A TDI engine would have to be fitted, and I still want my big gas tank. Center of gravity is always best when its low I really hate putting cans on my rack, these things already suck on the highway. Imagine 24 gallons of diesel at 30mpg hwy.

They're really going to have to redesign the interior, I'm not going to buy a new car, and it have the same design from the 80's. The 80's are dead. If your trying to pick up women, most of them don't know that the 110 your picking them up in is worth more than 5 grand.

Talk to Toyota about axels and lockers. Land Rover couldn't get it for 60 years, if you fail for 60 years, talk to toyota. (Minus Salisbury Axel) It would need F+R lockers, It would be competing with the Rubicon, and kick its butt.

Rattles. None of this madness.

Computers - get rid of that stuff.

Make hot women love this vehicle, just make it happen, every woman i've showed a defender to hates it and it pisses me off. "ew thats not a land rover, I want a range rover those suck" MMMMMMMMMMMMthey never get the front diff talk, or the computer talk, or how 20"s suck offroad.

I also want that orange color, you know from dukes of hazard.

I don't want girly 20" wheels. Give me 15's. Tires in this size are everywhere and cheap.

Something reliable would be so great, inact policies where drunken football hooligans have to sober up, before building vehicles. Remember when they forgot to glue down the dash? DOPE. It's not like you make any money off of the service desk, honestly 1100 dollars for an alternator for a DI?

I'd really like to see a 2004 DII interior put Defender, no power stuff.

Can someone please tell me why these things cost so much, go to England and tell me they are rare. Am I so crazy for thinking this? I'm open for critisism, just understand I'm not trying to offend anyone.

People have told me before, Land Rover can't improve on the defender because it would cost so much to do this, and that. Look at Jeep, they do it, and sell it.
.

It's 3AM and I wanna go to bed.

 

[cydonia-jacc]

I understand your frustration. It's hard to justify the premium for a 110 when you could buy half a dozen used 80 series TLC's. Maybe they will bring it back someday. For the record though, I did meet one woman whose dream vehicle is a Defender 110 so I married her.

 

[I Leak Oil]

Simple really. They are desireable here in the states and there aren't many of them. Simple supply and demand. If you want to own vehicle to enable you to impress women then, after you get some sleep, go to the Ferrari dealer...:hehe:
Jason T.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

Things to consider, there is always a logical explanation

You can fly to the UK and find yourself a nice D110 on the cheap but you will be restoring it - they will become more plentiful but I wouldn't expect prices to drop much from $20K for a nice 1983-1984/85

You can put manual Range Rover seats in a D110 easily from a P38. A Defender can look as luxurious or simple as you like, it is a base model. Add anything you want from heated windscreens to power windows, it is all possible - for a price! Just like anything else but most buyers like the simplicity of the Defender as it avoids many headaches

Defenders and 109 series Rovers encompass the idea of exploring and adventuring for generations. Movies like Out Of Africa etc are about wandering the Savannah and engaging wild life or watching the sun set over the seemingly endless African horizon in the bush in a Rover. They are very much romanticized and in America of all places, there is no better marketing than getting human beings to make financial decisions based on their heart's desire .... until they get over it

I agree on price, a 2004 Disco can be fully kitted out for anything for $10-15K these days. However, a D110 with a diesel can potentially get close to or over 30mpg, but you'll need a specialty shop to fix it if you're not so inclined

Women and cars - the only time you should ever consider what a female thinks of your car is after you marry her and you're discussing off spring Attempting to use a car to attract a lady won't get you what you want! It is the wrong bait for the job my friend or you're hunting the wrong kind of animal to begin with

America possesses a giant market place for consumers. It was a mistake I think to bring the 110 in for a year but that is old news. The other issue is financing; for the average American to buy a 25 year old vehicle you have to cough up a good chunk of cash for a loan if you can't afford it out right and interest rates are bound to be higher. Most people don't want the hassle.

People with families don't really want their kids in those dinky seats in the way back or want to spend money on a vehicle with no air bags, that potentially leaks, is cold, has a less than desirable heating and AC unit, etc etc

All of those things can be fixed and improved upon. Most fathers and mothers want a safe reliable vehicle though. My friends with 4Runners when asked how they like their vehicle only complaint is: "it's a great car, but everyone has one" Americans like to bring their vehicles to the shop for required services only. We become outraged and surprised when our vehicle has electrical issues after we drive it through 3 feet of water or thump it over logging trails etc. We don't like to do the work ourselves, vehicles have become to complicated since the 50s lol We are a service oriented and dependent culture

The Defender 110 irony is that most people who drive one use it for practical applications and like to be unassuming. It is a great off road truck but it does attract a lot of attention. Those same people usually like to be a little different from the rest or are fulfilling their long awaited dream of owning a D110

If you want one, wait a year or two when the economy comes back to life. Or wait until one of the newly developed American importers gets desperate to unload one ( it will happen ) and get one for like $13K. It doesn't cost much to convert the engine to a TDI - you can pay to have it done for about 10K and then you have a new engine. You'll need to galvanized or wax oil the chassis though but that is a good idea for any truck you own

whatever you decide, you should not be taking your vehicle to a dealer to have it fixed. My dealer wanted $900 to replace the brakes, just the brake pads, on my 2004 Disco. I took it to a local place and had it done for $320 and could have done it for less if I had just sat down and followed the directions over an afternoon .... but I'm American

Try keeping an eye on ebay.co.uk for old Defenders. Or pick up a copy of LRO or LRM and peruse the shops in the back and look up their inventory online. There was a sweet D130 for like $10K American from MRM in the UK a few months ago. Thing needed nothing and would have cost you 2K to import but it was a 1985

People selling/buying Defenders for over $30K is beyond my understanding but it isn't the first time people sold an item for much more than it's actual value and others happily paid it - sometimes objects are worth as much as anyone is willing to pay and often there is a line of people who will pay it.

As far as the Defender goes, a not so inclined armchair mechanic can go to Lowes and drop about 1500$ on tools and be able to fix nearly anything that goes wrong with a 110, you'd be hard pressed to say that about a Disco.

If you think buying a Rover for $60K is any different than buying one for $5k you are mistaken. They are fussy cars and require attention so if you don't like popping the hood and checking the fluids just to be prudent ( even when it is sub zero out or 90 degrees out ) then get something else. Then there are odd things about Rovers, inexplicable expenditures. The dealer wanted $120 bucks for 3 windshield wipers, so I went to a car parts store to find a replacement but it wasn't easy. They don't use the wipers you can buy at the gas station. Then there are bad design issues like the SLS and others. You have to roll with the punches.

Energy prices are going to go back up eventually but watching the prices of 2004 Discos fall along with everything else these days, makes a very tempting offer for those who have yet to be told their jobs are on the chopping block. The cash spent on a D110 would fund many great memorable adventures

My recommendation is don't worry so much about how others spend their money and care even less about what others think of your automobile or what you drive.

 

[TeriAnn]

Fear not. No one will force you to purchase a Defender against your wishes and dealers lots are full of attractively priced rice burners that have Toyota axles under them.

In the US the demand for Defenders along with their very limited numbers is what supports the high costs. That's why.

Maybe things will appear less bleak to you after you get some sleep.

 

[MattScott]

Sleep is good!

 

[taco chaser]

Fear not. No one will force you to purchase a Defender against your wishes and dealers lots are full of attractively priced rice burners that have Toyota axles under them.

In the US the demand for Defenders along with their very limited numbers is what supports the high costs. That's why.

Maybe things will appear less bleak to you after you get some sleep.

Rather be burning rice than OIL!!!

 

[Z O O R O P A]

Terri -

I really enjoy your blog and information

rice burner is a pejorative expression that smacks of something else. I am hoping we are beyond bashing brands and people. You should be able to see the post for what it is; someone's frustration at the cost of a product posted with little sleep and lacking in refinement and good manners. No need to slam Toyota or entertain what could be deemed potentially prejudice - this is just the place to gripe about such things and he isn't the first to scratch his head about Defender prices. Not trying to give you a hard time but being sparing with praise is one thing . . . . I'm willing to bet you wouldn't use the term rice burner in a social setting

Toyota will be around long after Land Rover has changed it's traditions well away from its heritage and been bought and sold a dozen more times despite our affinity for them

If I could stick a Toyota V8 in a Defender or Discovery I would. I'm watching "Perilous Journeys" and the gentlemen traveling in South Africa was just rescued by a Toyota when his Defender 110 broke down for the second time lol How ominous

 

[MattScott]

I just don't see how the Defender has turned into a high end vehicle, it's like being in england and having someone tell me a wrangler is a prestegious vehicle. I'll drive a vehicle for what it is worth. Infact I think alot of these things aren't even driven, have you seen some of the mileages of them on ebay. There is one for 49,900 right now, for a 90.

 

[kellymoe]

If you want a Defender and dont want to pay a premium for it then the key is patience. I found a 1994 D90 with low miles and in good condition for under $14k a few years ago. Of course I had fun with it and then turned around and made a good profit on it a year later I then used that money to buy my D130 crewcab for $4k under what the seller was asking. The key to the 130 was waiting a few months. IMO I got the 130 at a steal of a price and could probably sell it for much more today if I wanted but I do not plan on selling the 130, ever. If you are willing to wait and look around you will find a Defender at a reasonable price.

 

[MUSBJIM]

Re: Defender price/desirability?

IMHO the price/desirability of Defenders is based on three assumptions;
1. Simple supply & demand.
2. Emperor's clothing.
3. The heart wants what the heart wants.

That being said, I think it would be fun to have one!

 

[Connie]

Make hot women love this vehicle, just make it happen, every woman i've showed a defender to hates it and it pisses me off. "ew thats not a land rover, I want a range rover those suck"

Hmm, you don't know the right girls. A Freelander, now THAT is not a Land Rover.:shakin:

 

[cjmitchell5]

I'd love to see a new defender, why would a buy something new, when I can get something from the early 80's thats almost exactly the same?

I think that's supposed to be a rhetorical question but why would you buy new when you can get the exact same thing cheaper?

A fuel tank bigger than my bladder, 14-15 gallons is a joke.

I concur with this, however the 110's have a 20gal (still too small) You should try a series truck w/ a 12gallon tank, lol.

A TDI engine would have to be fitted, Imagine 24 gallons of diesel at 30mpg hwy.

You're preaching to the choir on this subject. One of the main detractors is the American expectation of an engine. Most diesels (save for the 300tdi) are not going to meet people's expectations of being up to the speed limit by the far side of the intersection. Not many people have experienced anything other than a VW tdi or 300hp diesel pickup. In Korea I had a 9 Passenger Montero with a 70hp non-turbo 2L diesel, got great MPG but can you live w/ a vehicle that can't pull a grade in higher than 1st gear or only have top speed of 80mph?

They're really going to have to redesign the interior, I'm not going to buy a new car, and it have the same design from the 80's. The 80's are dead. If your trying to pick up women, most of them don't know that the 110 your picking them up in is worth more than 5 grand.

Not sure what you're looking for on the interior. In-dash DVD? It's a utility vehicle not the Wagon Queen Family Truckster. "You think you hate it now, but wait till you drive it."

Talk to Toyota about axels and lockers. Land Rover couldn't get it for 60 years, if you fail for 60 years, talk to toyota. (Minus Salisbury Axel) It would need F+R lockers, It would be competing with the Rubicon, and kick its butt.

Axles- I've owned 5 Rovers and 5 Jeeps, hadn't broke an axle yet, maybe I'm just lucky. Lockers are nice but used about as often as my winch. I would think it's the type of driving you do that dictates axles and lockers.

Rattles. None of this madness.

Rattles? Not sure about this one. I'm driving a 71 SIIa right now, while loud due to lack of sound insulation, it's all road and engine noise, no rattles.

Computers - get rid of that stuff.

To meet modern expectations, computers are handy.
Engine computers- Provide power and efficiency
Transmission computers- Efficiency and longevity
Body computers- This goes for updated interiors, IE radio to stay on after the key is removed or your interior light to stay on for a set time. Or accidentally leave a light on, the computer will turn it off to save battery.
HVAC computer- Updated interior again. W/o a computer you have vents open/closed, temp hot/cold, and a fan speed switch.

Make hot women love this vehicle, just make it happen, every woman i've showed a defender to hates it and it pisses me off. "ew thats not a land rover, I want a range rover those suck" MMMMMMMMMMMMthey never get the front diff talk, or the computer talk, or how 20"s suck offroad.

:smilies27 MMMMMMMMMMMM..maybe this will help: http://www.hypnopoetics.com/Hypnotize-Women.html

I don't want girly 20" wheels. Give me 15's. Tires in this size are everywhere and cheap.

I'll agree w/ no 20" wheels on anytire less than 40" tall, but I'd have to say I prefer a 16" wheel. You can't fit 15" over most brakes anymore.

1100 dollars for an alternator for a DI?

:Mechanic: you can get this at the local parts store for <$200

I'd really like to see a 2004 DII interior put Defender, no power stuff.

Wouldn't the carpet get messed up?

 

[michaelgroves]

Something reliable would be so great, inact policies where drunken football hooligans have to sober up, before building vehicles. Remember when they forgot to glue down the dash? DOPE. It's not like you make any money off of the service desk, honestly 1100 dollars for an alternator for a DI?

It's 3AM and I wanna go to bed.

You may not be trying to offend anyone, but you're well on your way.

 

[michaelgroves]

I also want that orange color, you know from dukes of hazard.

I'd really like to see a 2004 DII interior put Defender, no power stuff.

Personally, the new interior isn't for me, but it makes some people happy!


Regarding the US prices of Defenders, surely it's no mystery? It's a love it or hate it vehicle with cult status, foibles and all. It's expensive to build for a whole lot of reasons, so even in the UK, it's not very cheap, new. In the States, second-hand Defenders command huge prices because lots of people want them, but there are only a (relative) handful of them in the country, and the supply is fixed. They are not the most reliable trucks, but they are incredibly durable. Here in the UK, they are very cheap to run, because parts are absurdly cheap, and they are (relatively) simple to fix. So they are popular here, and have very high resale values compared to similar vehicles. (Discoveries and Range Rovers are worse, Freelanders even more so). Take a look at Ebay.co.uk, and see the prices for parts and vehicles...