My Jeep FC170 (Forward Control) "Patina Rod" project

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

I picked up my new (2008) front spring seats and track bar mount this week. I also made some more painting progress. Beauty is in the details, IMHO.

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Well, I committed to cutting 3 of the 4 body mounts off the 2008 F350 frame, and will grind them flush later. No fancy-schmancy plasma cutter here; old-school Milwaukee Sawzall & grinder ******. The e-brake cable runs through the 4th mount, which will be partially removed later (a hanger for the cable will be retained).

I'm repainting the frame one section at a time. Once it cures, I'll reattach the spring seats, steering stabilizer & track bar bracket, then apply a final top-coat. One step closer to the front axle install.

Break time included one of these tasty Bell's Oberons (last one in the fridge, and probably the last for the season). Mmmmmm!

My planned "basic scuff & paint" turned more extensive when I found some surface rust under the powdercoat on the NEW Ford spring seats. The mounting holes were also opened up slightly to fit seven (7) 10.9-strength M12 bolts, which replace the factory rivets.

I also cleaned 25+ years worth of spare parts, misc. bolts/hardware, rust, etc. out of the FC170 today, then hit it with the shop vac (preparing to remove the cab). After talking with a buddy (who's WAY more experienced than me!), I figured out how I'm going to lift the cab off the frame, and also how I'm going to mock up the new body mounts on the F350 frame.

 

[LPIII]

Nice work Craig and congratulations on your nuptials.

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Nice work Craig and congratulations on your nuptials.

Thanks, LPIII.


I got a few of the OEM F350 brackets reinstalled (one spring seat, track bar bracket & steering stabilizer bracket). I used M12 (12mm) metric bolts for the spring seats to replace the factory rivets.

After seeing pics on Jeep.com, I stopped at the dealership today to check out a set of 2015 Cherokee leather seats. I need a set of relatively narrow seats that'll fit between the FC engine "hump" and the door. The size is right, but they look better online than in-person. Notice the loose fit of the leather (both vehicles I checked out looked loose, but in different spots). I'll keep looking for narrow-ish seat options.

I have been doing a lot of steering research (it'll be completely custom on the FC), and think I will search for a Toyota FJ60 (Land Cruiser) box. I also considered a RHD Jeep JD steering box (like Jeep did with the Mighty FC), but a spendy new steering box with an inherently weak sector shaft design doesn't appeal as much to me as the seemingly proven FJ60 box.

I have also been taking a TON of measurements, and researching the soon-to-be front frame reconstruction.


I looked at a GMC W3500 (same as Isuzu NPR) today. No engine, and unfortunately still too spendy for me. However, I'm going to look for parts (or an inexpensive, non-running parts truck) from which I can harvest the slick tilt cab mechanism. The Jeep FCs didn't have a tilt feature from the factory, and the NPR set-up is nice & simple (and completely mechanical, not hydraulic).

 

[96Delica]

This thing is going to be amazing!

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

This thing is going to be amazing!

Thanks Mat.



If your average Subway employee can call his or herself a "Sandwich Artist", I'm going to dub myself a "Grinder/Sander Artist". One old body mount removed...only three to go (~3 hours worth of grinding with this one.) This set of body mounts would have interfered with the FC170 lower rear cab corners. Even if it hadn't, I still would have removed the unnecessary mounts.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

I'll resell everything except the tilt/hold-down mechanism.

Is the GMC's steering not worth considering?

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Is the GMC's steering not worth considering?

It's been discussed amongst the FC crowd, but my steering box will be mounted on the inside of the frame (the GMC steering is on the outside). The GMC/Isuzu also has a funky linkage for the 2WD steering. Mine will be more traditional (relatively speaking).

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Well, after much consideration, I have decided not to use my low-mileage (94K miles) '99 XJ 4.0L/AW4/NP-231 for my build. If anyone is interested in the 94K-mile '99 Cherokee (XJ) driveline, I have listed for sale locally. I'd prefer to sell it complete, but will entertain breaking it up if it's financially beneficial to do so.

Instead, I will be looking for a Cummins 4BT diesel. The transmission is to be determined, but will likely be an automatic (still researching; potentially a Dodge 47RH). Transfer case will be dictated by the transmission selection.

I'm leaning in this direction for several reasons:

1. Power, plain & simple. I have been very pleased with the power of 4.0L engines in other Jeeps (even with my old '05 LJ on 1-tons & 37" tires), but this truck is going to be substantially heavier. I talked with a mechanic friend & Jeep enthusiast who just installed a 4BT in an older Ford 1/2-ton truck, and he mentioned I'd likely "have my foot in the gas all the time, and get horrible mileage". Fair enough.
2. Physical size. The 4BT is small-ish, and a popular swap into Jeeps for this reason, as many of you know. Given the finite amount of space under the FC170 cab, it's definitely a consideration.
3. Fuel economy. My buddy mentioned above gets 23-25 mpg consistently in his 4BT-equipped Ford truck (using the stock 5-speed manual trans). With the stock 40-gallon 2008 F350 fuel tank, I'll have a 800+ mile range on a single tank of fuel.
4. I'm a "prepper" who - up to this point - has just been assembling a Bug-Out Bag (see below). In addition to basic utility with some crazy-cool retro style, this truck will also serve as a Bug-Out Vehicle. The 4BT doesn't use a computer, and only requires a single (solonoid) wire to run. This, along with a non-computer-controlled transmission, will be added insurance against the possibility of an EMP (electromagnetic pulse).

 

[Jim K in PA]

Well, after much consideration, I have decided not to use my low-mileage (94K miles) '99 XJ 4.0L/AW4/NP-231 for my build. If anyone is interested in the 94K-mile '99 Cherokee (XJ) driveline, I have listed for sale locally. I'd prefer to sell it complete, but will entertain breaking it up if it's financially beneficial to do so.

Instead, I will be looking for a Cummins 4BT diesel. The transmission is to be determined, but will likely be an automatic (still researching; potentially a Dodge 47RH). Transfer case will be dictated by the transmission selection.


[2]Physical size. The 4BT is small-ish, and a popular swap into Jeeps for this reason, as many of you know. Given the finite amount of space under the FC170 cab, it's definitely a consideration.

Have you researched the dimensions of a 4BT? It is over 3 feet tall (same as a 6BT), and weighs 200+ lbs more than the 4.0. Length-wise you will have an easier time, but check your available height and front axle clearance to the pan. Vibration, especially at idle, is substantial, and engine mount choice is important if you care at all about occupant comfort. They have also gotten silly-expensive, so if you have access to a good used one for a decent price, jump on it. Otherwise you will be into serious $$ for the power plant, and then you will need to spend $$ to actually make more power than a 4.0

Not trying to rain on your parade, but you can build a 250hp/300+lb-ft stroker for less than you will have into a 4BT, but you will not get rid of the EFI. I'll side-step the EMP discussion, but agree with getting away from the AW4; it's not a great transmission no matter what you power it with.

I was going to do a diesel swap into my LJ. Not worth it for my priorities, and much too expensive. Building a stroker instead. If I were to go with a diesel, it would probably be the Cummins/Komatsu B3.3T. Smaller/shorter/lighter, and decent power potential.

What is your estimated final weight for the rig?

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Have you researched the dimensions of a 4BT? It is over 3 feet tall (same as a 6BT), and weighs 200+ lbs more than the 4.0. Length-wise you will have an easier time, but check your available height and front axle clearance to the pan. Vibration, especially at idle, is substantial, and engine mount choice is important if you care at all about occupant comfort. They have also gotten silly-expensive, so if you have access to a good used one for a decent price, jump on it. Otherwise you will be into serious $$ for the power plant, and then you will need to spend $$ to actually make more power than a 4.0

Not trying to rain on your parade, but you can build a 250hp/300+lb-ft stroker for less than you will have into a 4BT, but you will not get rid of the EFI. I'll side-step the EMP discussion, but agree with getting away from the AW4; it's not a great transmission no matter what you power it with.

I was going to do a diesel swap into my LJ. Not worth it for my priorities, and much too expensive. Building a stroker instead. If I were to go with a diesel, it would probably be the Cummins/Komatsu B3.3T. Smaller/shorter/lighter, and decent power potential.

What is your estimated final weight for the rig?

Thanks for the input, Jim. Yes, I have looked at the dimensions/specs for the 4BT. Weight-wise, I'm not horribly worried, as the whole foundation is based on a significantly heavier Ford diesel driveline (e.g. - front coil springs are from a 2005 6.0L Power Stroke, which is 966 lbs. with oil). Regarding the dimensions, I was a bit shocked at the height (a full 1 foot taller than a 4.0L) based on the dimensions I found online (30.8"L x 24.6"W x 37.7"H). If the length and width work (I'll physically measure the 4BT in my friend's truck to confirm), the height could have some flexibility. I can always extend (raise) the engine tunnel a bit, if necessary.

I'll certainly look into the Cummins/Komatsu 3.3 option (thanks for the suggestion). I know 4btswaps.com has info on them, but I haven't researched them as of yet. I do have an "in" with a crane rental/precast concrete/steel erection company for which I built their website (www.g2erectors.com). Perhaps they could help me find a source for this engine.

I'm not really interested in getting into an engine rebuild at this point (I have plenty of other hands-on work to do with this project. I'd prefer to find an inexpensive, strong-running engine to use as-is (I've done this with all of my builds).

Yes, 4BTs have been in demand for quite some time, and the prices (when you can find them) reflect that. Financially, I've had to be pretty creative due to a fairly tight budget, which has meant parting out a LOT of vehicles over the last 15 years. For example, by buying a "package" of several FCs and parts and selling what I didn't need, I ended up with my 1958 FC170 truck for free (and have actually made $350 on top of that, with more parts yet to be sold). I also have nothing into the low-mileage 4.0L/AW4/NP-231 I originally planned on using. I'd likely buy a complete truck to get the engine I want. My buddy paid $3000 for his 4BT-equipped step van, which had a brand new reman 4BT already in it (he drove the van home).

You definitely gave me some things to think about and research (thank you!), and I definitely have some time to do so before I'm ready to start installing the driveline.

I'm off to pick up a GMC W3500 (Isuzu NPR) parts vehicle in just a couple hours (more to come)...


BTW, project finances are also finite, as I'm rebuilding late-model Jeep Cherokee 2-doors with & for both of my young daughters (build thread HERE).

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Today was a busy day chasing after parts. We towed a 2003 GMC W3500 (Isuzu NPR) home today, minus the engine/trans & box, so I can harvest the tilt cab parts/brackets/hardware. Everything else will be sold.

I also found a set of pretty inexpensive 8x200mm steel wheels with tires from a 2007 F350 dually (originally an ambulance). One wheel is crustier than the other 5...likely a replacement. I'll look for a single steel wheel/tire to replace it eventually.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Thanks for the input, Jim.

You definitely gave me some things to think about and research (thank you!), and I definitely have some time to do so before I'm ready to start installing the driveline.

I'm off to pick up a GMC W3500 (Isuzu NPR) parts vehicle in just a couple hours (more to come)...

BTW, project finances are also finite, as I'm rebuilding late-model Jeep Cherokee 2-doors with & for both of my young daughters (build thread HERE).

My pleasure. You are doing it right by taking the time to research other's successes (and failures!) before committing to any one direction.

The Isuzu mechanical diesels are also a good option, if you find one for cheap.

I would also scavenge the air intake system off of that NPR. Looks like it is still attached to the cab.

Good luck with the XJs. My son has a loaded '96 5 speed 4 door XJ, and loves it. So do I!

 

[virginia_jeeper]

Any updates?

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Any updates?

Work on my truck has been on hold while I – with surgical precision (not really) – dissected the "Dan's Snowplowing" parts FC170. Some of the panels will make great wall art for a few friends, while other sections will provide patch panels for my FC.

Upon a whim (and after doing some searching online for ideas), I stopped into the Mini dealership (Mini of Grand Rapids) to check out seats.

(Good) I found that the Mini Cooper seats are VERY comfortable, and (some models) will fit perfectly in my FC170 cab. Seats DO vary by Mini model, though, and some are too wide.

(Bad) Then the parts counter guy told me they'd be upward of $2K for just the front two seats. OUCH! I'll have to keep an eye out on car-part.com, and/or local salvage yards.​