My poor man's Earth Roamer design.

[CappyJax]

I am planning a build of a 14 foot flat bed F550 camper and looking for feedback. MY plan is to live in it full time. I currently live in a travel trailer and tow it with a Ford Transit. I find it such a pain to hook up the trailer and get away for a weekend. Plus, I can't go to the dispersed camping areas I would like to because of the vehicle and trailer's limitations.

I an leaning towards a Total Composite shell. It will be the standard thicknesses, which I think is 50mm for walls and 84mm for floor and ceiling.

I was getting frustrated with the wasted space of the bathroom, so I came up with the idea of making the center walkway the shower. I will have a wardrobe and storage on both sides, with pocket doors that will enclose the aisle. The floor will be bamboo boards which will allow the water to pass to the grey tank. The shower head will come out of one of the cabinets. The toilet will be a composting toilet that will be hidden under the step used to get into the alcove.


Both fresh and grey water tanks will be inside the camper. Fresh at the rear under the dinette, and grey under the wardrobe/shower area.

Heat will be from an Espar diesel hydronics heater that will be in one of the tool boxes under the flat bed. The hot water heat exchanger will be inside the camper. This prevents the need to have any water outside the camper. I'll have a small header tank of diesel fuel in the insulated tool box which should be kept warm by the heat of operation of the Espar.

Everything else will be electric. I am planning a 40kWh system using 8 used Tesla modules. Because I want to have a mini split air conditioner with 2 cassettes, I may need 240V. In which case I will have dual Victron Quattros. But this may help save diesel fuel as I can then use 5kW instant on water heaters for the shower and sink. The mini split will also be a heat pump, so I would only really need to use the Espar when the temps drop below 0F, long overcast days, or for warming the engine/cab.

I am hoping to be able to have 12 400W solar panels. 6 on top and then 3 and 3 under that will slide out when parked. Similar to what this guy did.( ) That would give me 4800W of solar.

The batteries will be inside the camper, so they won't need to be heated. This will reduce the complexity a great deal. The max load is low enough they never need to be cooled either.

Since everything is inside, I won't have a lot of space for gear in the camper. But I will have three out of the four tool boxes on the flat bed and that should be enough.

With all the solar on the roof, I won't have any place for vents or fans, so i'll have a cross flow heat exchanger to swap out air.

The one thing I would really like is a tiny wood burning stove. This would allow me to collect wood to burn instead of diesel during long overcasts or below 0F weather. But where to run the pipe so I don't impact my roof space for solar? Still not sure how I will do it.

The lines to the chassis should be minimal. I was thinking about a 48V alternator for the batteries, but that was getting really expensive and complex. I determined it would be way cheaper and easier to just have a 5,000W 12V to 120V inverter in the chassis and run a line back to one of the Quattros. This would charge the batteries at a decent rate, but more importantly, it would serve as an under hood generator in a pinch.

The other lines would be for the coolant lines from the Espar to the engine for preheating, the tail lights, off road lights, battery topper, etc. I am thinking 2 lines for the coolant, 3 from the 120V inverter, 7 for the tail lights, 4 off-road lights, and 1 for battery topper. This will make swapping to a new chassis very easy which is important to me.

It will probably take me a couple years to build and I won't buy the truck until then. I hope they might have a hybrid by then. Electric would be awesome, but I think we are several mores years away before they start making electric heavy duties.

Any concerns you guys see with this build concept?

 

[Victorian]

Would this inspire you ?? assembled this week and mounted today by Overland Adventure Trucks in Olympia WA

 

[DzlToy]

I have read and heard mixed reviews on Dickinson Marine stoves, but a wall exit exhaust kit is offered. I have also seen DIY, wall-hung mini stoves, basically a C-shaped pipe burning small pieces of wood or pellets, with an exterior intake and a through-wall exhaust. This creates a sealed system and does not combust interior air.

Instead of 48VDC alternators, look at Brushless DC electric motors and generators. They are significantly more efficient, some along the lines of 95% or more. You may wish to consider a PTO mounted setup and eliminate your solar. To Wit:

A bone stock 6.7L ISB Cummins in a Dodge pickup produces about 500 foot pounds of torque at the crank, at 800 RPM. This is sufficient to power a 50kW DC fast charger, significantly more than you will ever get from solar, an alternator or even an on board generator. Take advantage of what you already have on board, instead of adding something else to accomplish the same goal. The best commercial solar panels on the market right now are about 27% to 28% efficient. You would thus need a massive array to get even 1kW per hour of output, averaged over the course of a day. A BLDC is 95% or more, efficient. You have a diesel engine and a large fuel tank. Running the engine a half hour every few days is a walk in the park. Using this system instead of solar, saves weight, lowers your CoG, reduces build time, eliminates the MPPT and frees up cash to put into the BLDC and high R-value construction material. As Tesla batteries can take high C rates, you should be able to charge them fully, in under an hour. Solar cannot compete here.

Wallas Marine diesel heaters and stoves, run well on K1, better than on diesel, in fact. The stove acts as a back up and provides very efficient cooking and heating. Mini Split HVAC units are incredibly efficient; Carrier offers a 9K BTU unit with a 42 SEER, the highest on the market. With below 0*F performance and your stove or fireplace, four-season livability is quite good. Focusing on high thermal resistance will also pay huge dividends. You will either pay now in construction costs or pay later in fuel and hassles. It isn't difficult to make a sandwich panel with an R-30 to R-40 value, drastically reducing heating and cooling loads for your living space. In cool weather, you may not need to run the heater at all.

For the platform, consider a 10-15 year old diesel truck, regular cab long beds are the most space efficient, without all of the modern electronic gadgets, emissions systems and their associated costs. Simple trucks are easier to service, especially in remote areas or whilst traveling. If this is going to be your home, you want it to be as simple and reliable as you can make it. A new, whiz-bang, $70,000 pickup is just the opposite, IMO.

 

[CappyJax]

Would this inspire you ?? assembled this week and mounted today by Overland Adventure Trucks in Olympia WA

That is very similar to what I envision! How long is it? What was the total cost for the panels?

Thanks!

 

[CappyJax]

I have read and heard mixed reviews on Dickinson Marine stoves, but a wall exit exhaust kit is offered. I have also seen DIY, wall-hung mini stoves, basically a C-shaped pipe burning small pieces of wood or pellets, with an exterior intake and a through-wall exhaust. This creates a sealed system and does not combust interior air.

I actually was researching them after I made this post. I could put one in the rear corner and run it up the roof. I would just need to extend the chimney a few feet when I wanted to use it, which is no big deal.

Instead of 48VDC alternators, look at Brushless DC electric motors and generators. They are significantly more efficient, some along the lines of 95% or more. You may wish to consider a PTO mounted setup and eliminate your solar. To Wit:

A bone stock 6.7L ISB Cummins in a Dodge pickup produces about 500 foot pounds of torque at the crank, at 800 RPM. This is sufficient to power a 50kW DC fast charger, significantly more than you will ever get from solar, an alternator or even an on board generator. Take advantage of what you already have on board, instead of adding something else to accomplish the same goal. The best commercial solar panels on the market right now are about 27% to 28% efficient. You would thus need a massive array to get even 1kW per hour of output, averaged over the course of a day. A BLDC is 95% or more, efficient. You have a diesel engine and a large fuel tank. Running the engine a half hour every few days is a walk in the park. Using this system instead of solar, saves weight, lowers your CoG, reduces build time, eliminates the MPPT and frees up cash to put into the BLDC and high R-value construction material. As Tesla batteries can take high C rates, you should be able to charge them fully, in under an hour. Solar cannot compete here.

Just with the roof space, I can get 2,400W. Having fold out or slide out panels would double that. It will be around $8,000 for the panels & mount. $7,000 more for the inverter/chargers and charge controllers.. A 50kW pro generator looks be around $4,500. But to charge at 50kW, I would need a 16,500 inverter charger. So, $15,000 and I don't need to use any diesel, or $21,000 and I use about $500 in diesel every year.

Also, I want to be able to go camping without worrying about when I need to leave to have enough diesel to make it back to civilization.

Wallas Marine diesel heaters and stoves, run well on K1, better than on diesel, in fact. The stove acts as a back up and provides very efficient cooking and heating. Mini Split HVAC units are incredibly efficient; Carrier offers a 9K BTU unit with a 42 SEER, the highest on the market. With below 0*F performance and your stove or fireplace, four-season livability is quite good. Focusing on high thermal resistance will also pay huge dividends. You will either pay now in construction costs or pay later in fuel and hassles. It isn't difficult to make a sandwich panel with an R-30 to R-40 value, drastically reducing heating and cooling loads for your living space. In cool weather, you may not need to run the heater at all.

SEER is a good figure to use for people who leave their AC unit on all the time to a set temp. Carrier gets this very high SEER by having sensors to determine if no one is in the room, then it automatically increases the temp in the room. For my purposes, the EER is a better reference to use as it is a direct figure of the amount of energy needed per watt of cooling or heating. The carrier is 15 which is still very good and better than the LG, but that Carrier unit is one single large unit inside. With the LG, I can have one in the rear and one in front, which means I would only heat or cool the bed area when I sleep which is going save a ton of energy.

For the platform, consider a 10-15 year old diesel truck, regular cab long beds are the most space efficient, without all of the modern electronic gadgets, emissions systems and their associated costs. Simple trucks are easier to service, especially in remote areas or whilst traveling. If this is going to be your home, you want it to be as simple and reliable as you can make it. A new, whiz-bang, $70,000 pickup is just the opposite, IMO.

Maybe 20-25 year old trucks, then I would agree with you! LOL. But 10-15 year old trucks is like the dark ages of diesel, right? All the truck manufacturers had new diesels and had a lot of teething problems. This is when they stared throwing on common rail and a lot of electronics. I had a 1997 Dodge that ran like a beast and you couldn't hurt the thing. But the later Dodge pickups I had all had tons of gremlins.

And simpler trucks aren't always easier to service. New vehicles are loaded with sensors and you can often find the problem very quickly. The biggest issue with newer ones is that those sensors and electronics can really mess things us. But they are much better today than they were 10 years ago. Plus, if I can drive something with less emissions, that is just a bonus. But the end goal is to install this camper on an all Electric truck. If I store 20kW a day from the solar into the batteries, then I should be able to drive about 160 miles after 10 days of sitting. All for free. Now that is freedom.

 

[Joe917]

That sliding solar idea is fine on a bench, not so good 11' off the ground.

 

[CappyJax]

That sliding solar idea is fine on a bench, not so good 11' off the ground.

Why is that?

 

[Joe917]

Why is that?

Because it is going to fail. The drawer slides are going to fill with sand and grit.

 

[DzlToy]

All valid points; I am not sure what you mean by 50kW pro generator for $4500. I was thinking a brushless DC generator directly charging your batteries, without an inverter, as the connection is DC/DC.

WRT to the solar, 4800W at 25% efficiency = 1200W per hour, say 4 hours per day (max/peak power) = 4800W for the day, plus some on each end of that window, at less than peak performance, as the sun is rising or setting. 5kW < 50kW

Smaller BLDC generators are also available. A 10kW variant would double your solar peak solar output, in any condition.

Check out a company called EVDrive and another one called PMGenerator.

 

[CappyJax]

All valid points; I am not sure what you mean by 50kW pro generator for $4500. I was thinking a brushless DC generator directly charging your batteries, without an inverter, as the connection is DC/DC.

A 50kW brushless DC generator at 48V would require wires capable of carrying 1,000A for around 25 feet. That is over 1 inch thick wire. Plus I will still need a battery charger that will cost several thousands.

WRT to the solar, 4800W at 25% efficiency = 1200W per hour, say 4 hours per day (max/peak power) = 4800W for the day, plus some on each end of that window, at less than peak performance, as the sun is rising or setting. 5kW < 50kW

Solar panels on a flat surface are about 80%-85% efficient on average in summer, and 70%-75% in winter. That means during 12 hours of sunlight in winter, I'd still collect 40kAh.

The 25% you are referring to is the efficiency of the panel relative to the total amount of solar energy. Most affordable commercial panels are in the 20% range. This means that for the 1,000W of energy from the sun that hits 1 sq/m of the panel, only 200W is turned into usable energy. That would be a 200W panel.

Smaller BLDC generators are also available. A 10kW variant would double your solar peak solar output, in any condition.

Check out a company called EVDrive and another one called PMGenerator.

Not sure why you keep pushing this. Solar is cheaper, silent, plentiful, and environmentally friendly. There is no need for me to waste money on such a system. It would certainly cost more than the solar panel system. By far.

 

[straypoet]

I am interested in your build.
Some of these ideas are also ones I am working towards on my much much smaller build.

I do like the fold out panels that Everlanders did, and I am considering that myself, but for now I am only building the camper shell to match 3 commercial 72cell panels ( the top of the camper will be 80"x117")
That way, I can add a lower layer of pop-out panels at a later date if needed.

I am building in a box that will have the space for about 40kw of LIFEP04 batteries, and for now I plan to have a 'light hybrid' using a modified transfer case that will allow me to assist or drive solely as an EV, but I see what I am doing as just being 'ready' when the cost of batteries plummets below $100/kwh. I probably will only start with about 5kw, and not add the EV capability for about 3 years. who knows what the battery and solar landscape will look like in a few years.

I figure at some point I will want to convert to primarily EV, but since I plan to keep this camper the rest of my life, I am going to just be ready when it seems cost-effective.

 

[rruff]

I am planning a build of a 14 foot flat bed F550 camper and looking for feedback. MY plan is to live in it full time. I currently live in a travel trailer and tow it with a Ford Transit. I find it such a pain to hook up the trailer and get away for a weekend. Plus, I can't go to the dispersed camping areas I would like to because of the vehicle and trailer's limitations.

I'm curious about your living situation, and desires for this rig. Will you be parked in or near town most of the time (working?), and traveling to dispersed sites on weekends? That's a very different situation from being in the boonies full time. Why do you need so much solar? And do you ever plan to park where there are trees?

The best commercial solar panels on the market right now are about 27% to 28% efficient. You would thus need a massive array to get even 1kW per hour of output, averaged over the course of a day.

It isn't difficult to make a sandwich panel with an R-30 to R-40 value, drastically reducing heating and cooling loads for your living space. In cool weather, you may not need to run the heater at all.

You seem to be mixing things up with the solar. The panel efficiency is the electric conversion divided by the incident power; it isn't something you apply to the panel rating to get electric output. If the panels are rated at 1000W, then that's what you can get in full sun. High efficiency panels will be a bit smaller is all. Also watts are power. Watt-hrs is energy. There is no such thing as "1 kW per hour"... a watt is already energy/time, so what you end up with is energy/time^2... which... I don't know what that could be used for.

It's actually not wise to go for R value that high in a small space. Necessary ventilation air will be your biggest load even with R10-15 panels.

 

[CappyJax]

I am interested in your build.
Some of these ideas are also ones I am working towards on my much much smaller build.

I do like the fold out panels that Everlanders did, and I am considering that myself, but for now I am only building the camper shell to match 3 commercial 72cell panels ( the top of the camper will be 80"x117")
That way, I can add a lower layer of pop-out panels at a later date if needed.

I am building in a box that will have the space for about 40kw of LIFEP04 batteries, and for now I plan to have a 'light hybrid' using a modified transfer case that will allow me to assist or drive solely as an EV, but I see what I am doing as just being 'ready' when the cost of batteries plummets below $100/kwh. I probably will only start with about 5kw, and not add the EV capability for about 3 years. who knows what the battery and solar landscape will look like in a few years.

I figure at some point I will want to convert to primarily EV, but since I plan to keep this camper the rest of my life, I am going to just be ready when it seems cost-effective.

We have similar goals. I want this camper to last me for the rest of my life as well. I already have 20kWh in batteries, so if I can get similar modules, I will double that capacity. But waiting as long as possible means I hopefully pay less.

What batteries are you using?

 

[CappyJax]

I'm curious about your living situation, and desires for this rig. Will you be parked in or near town most of the time (working?), and traveling to dispersed sites on weekends? That's a very different situation from being in the boonies full time. Why do you need so much solar? And do you ever plan to park where there are trees?

Mostly in the boonies full time. And I want as much solar as I can get because I want to eventually place this camper on an electric F550 when they decide to make one. My whole goal is to be able to charge the battery up over several weeks and then move to a new location.

I am sure I will park near trees. I'll be using panels with shade tolerance, and also have multiple mppt controllers to reduce the loss from a shaded panel. This is a much cheaper way to do it over diode devices.

 

[Joe917]

Maybe you should add the excess solar after Ford comes up with an electric F550. Panel prices are only going down.