NAS LR3 build with an overseas twist
- Thread starter Ray_G
- Start date
Ray_G
Explorer
I ought to be getting the Dobbies onto the new rear coils and doing a suspension refresh but work->life makes that a bridge too far for the moment, so instead we add a little to the roof rack for winter sports.
Also 'finished' my PDW project...and since it's on the middle seat it's content, right? Also the rover in the background...
We cleared the area around her S1 as it needs a new transmission and that is on the agenda before we go to Japan.
But seriously, this is coming soon
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Victory_Overland
Explorer
Ray_G
Explorer
Right now it's a pair of these: Renogy 50 Watt 12 Volt Extremely Flexible Monocrystalline Solar Panel - Ultra Lightweight, Ultra Thin, Up to 248 Degree Arc, for RV, Boats, Roofs, Uneven Surfaces https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BMQRNXZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_w90gEbK7GAXJ3
I would say they are ok, as with all solar placement and orientation is key. So depending on where I park depends on how much I get from them.
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Hello again Ray et al,
I rarely come by ExPo these days as I spend much more time with my D1 playing crawler than I do with the LR3 playing 'overlander', but I've recently moved up to 34" tires on the 3 and I'm about to redo all the front control arms again which is leading me to think about coils - again.
In the past I've found coils just didn't offer enough lift. I run with Johnson rods, so call it a 2.5" lift. BUT - my truck also runs a full compliment of armor - I weighed everything while I had if off last week and I figure I've got about 1000lbs of hardware bolted on semi-permanently. This isn't including any camping/etc gear I might carry.
From what I've seen, the AB HD +2" springs should (in theory) give a stock truck almost the same ride height as a truck running rods but in reality they come up a bit short. So let's say that's .5-.75" lost right there. Now add in all the weight and you're pretty much back down to stock ride height.
Of course in addition to running the rods I still have the option to click into off-road height and gain an extra 2".
So that means the coils would be the equivalent of loosing about 4" of ride height and that's just not remotely an option.
I'm currently thinking about running the HD coils with about a 2" spacer to help regain some of the lost height, but really it needs a heavier spring from what I can tell. But I don't really feel like throwing $1200 at the coil package plus the labor to swap everything out just as an experiment.
As noted, the only real solution is custom longer control arms with matching longer half-shafts, HD high-angle CVs, and adjustable coil-overs. But none of those parts actually exist to my knowledge.
Any thoughts? It would also be nice to get a measurement of wheel hub to fender lip on your truck so we can see exactly how much lift the current springs offer vs the new ones you're looking at. That may help me decide if it's worth trying my own experiments.
Thanks!
I rarely come by ExPo these days as I spend much more time with my D1 playing crawler than I do with the LR3 playing 'overlander', but I've recently moved up to 34" tires on the 3 and I'm about to redo all the front control arms again which is leading me to think about coils - again.
In the past I've found coils just didn't offer enough lift. I run with Johnson rods, so call it a 2.5" lift. BUT - my truck also runs a full compliment of armor - I weighed everything while I had if off last week and I figure I've got about 1000lbs of hardware bolted on semi-permanently. This isn't including any camping/etc gear I might carry.
From what I've seen, the AB HD +2" springs should (in theory) give a stock truck almost the same ride height as a truck running rods but in reality they come up a bit short. So let's say that's .5-.75" lost right there. Now add in all the weight and you're pretty much back down to stock ride height.
Of course in addition to running the rods I still have the option to click into off-road height and gain an extra 2".
So that means the coils would be the equivalent of loosing about 4" of ride height and that's just not remotely an option.
I'm currently thinking about running the HD coils with about a 2" spacer to help regain some of the lost height, but really it needs a heavier spring from what I can tell. But I don't really feel like throwing $1200 at the coil package plus the labor to swap everything out just as an experiment.
As noted, the only real solution is custom longer control arms with matching longer half-shafts, HD high-angle CVs, and adjustable coil-overs. But none of those parts actually exist to my knowledge.
Any thoughts? It would also be nice to get a measurement of wheel hub to fender lip on your truck so we can see exactly how much lift the current springs offer vs the new ones you're looking at. That may help me decide if it's worth trying my own experiments.
Thanks!
Ray_G
Explorer
Don-
I'll get you a measurement before I start swapping stuff around.
That said I think we get to something philosophic here-your logic is correct, assuming you accept the idea of putting 34's on the truck as the going in proposition.
Moreover, I'd note that while I run her heavier than I probably should it is far from fully armored-and I have pulled stuff off (rear swing away) as I realized it was actually superfluous to her usage-merely adding weight.
You work your truck far more than most, so I'm not saying you haven't followed a function before form methodology...but a quick pass through facebook highlights legions that have. To your point, and mine, if I want to go thrash a truck...I take the D1. The 3 is too heavy from stock, has significant built in limitations to flex, and has a flat bottom like HMMWV in the mid2000's...just waiting to catch a beating.
Mine may have sagged slightly over the past 5 years, but given that I was a fairly early adopter to coils despite all the naysaying, and all I've done is put the OME HD's in the back, if felt like getting 76k/5yrs out of coils, despite overbuilding, is reasonable (nevermind being at least as good as most find with EAS components). Even with the inevitable sag, the stance still looks great and the truck just eats miles comfortably-I'm calling it a win (and actually switching to OME HD fronts/Dobinson's HD rears with a little trepidation!)
Ultimately my thoughts actually trend towards the OME HD's not sagging back to stock with your load out-maybe not quite the full offroad height garnered by rods-but adequate. Through the spacer in the back (since that's where it will sag) and you are back to good enough. If you don't want to deal with that, consider running an Expedition spacer (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-REAR-S...:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)....I think the R&D to get the custom solution you describe really highlights that you are better off in a solid axle coil sprung truck that is easier to manipulate than an independent suspension beast.
But that's my $.02...and we use our trucks differently-something I think is a good thing on the balance.
r-
Ray
I'll get you a measurement before I start swapping stuff around.
That said I think we get to something philosophic here-your logic is correct, assuming you accept the idea of putting 34's on the truck as the going in proposition.
Moreover, I'd note that while I run her heavier than I probably should it is far from fully armored-and I have pulled stuff off (rear swing away) as I realized it was actually superfluous to her usage-merely adding weight.
You work your truck far more than most, so I'm not saying you haven't followed a function before form methodology...but a quick pass through facebook highlights legions that have. To your point, and mine, if I want to go thrash a truck...I take the D1. The 3 is too heavy from stock, has significant built in limitations to flex, and has a flat bottom like HMMWV in the mid2000's...just waiting to catch a beating.
Mine may have sagged slightly over the past 5 years, but given that I was a fairly early adopter to coils despite all the naysaying, and all I've done is put the OME HD's in the back, if felt like getting 76k/5yrs out of coils, despite overbuilding, is reasonable (nevermind being at least as good as most find with EAS components). Even with the inevitable sag, the stance still looks great and the truck just eats miles comfortably-I'm calling it a win (and actually switching to OME HD fronts/Dobinson's HD rears with a little trepidation!)
Ultimately my thoughts actually trend towards the OME HD's not sagging back to stock with your load out-maybe not quite the full offroad height garnered by rods-but adequate. Through the spacer in the back (since that's where it will sag) and you are back to good enough. If you don't want to deal with that, consider running an Expedition spacer (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-REAR-S...:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)....I think the R&D to get the custom solution you describe really highlights that you are better off in a solid axle coil sprung truck that is easier to manipulate than an independent suspension beast.
But that's my $.02...and we use our trucks differently-something I think is a good thing on the balance.
r-
Ray
I appreciate the response and I look forward to your measurements. I think for starters I'll give the L8 spacers a try again with my air struts. I've tried them on 2 different trucks in the past and found they had several problems limiting up-travel - On both trucks if you tried to put it into access height it would think it had bottomed out and bounce into extended height. I'm not sure exactly what caused this as I couldn't find anything making contact or limiting the up-travel. The other thing I had issues with was the supplied limit straps. There was nowhere I could find to install the on the rear that they didn't rub the tire, and even on the front the mounting locations I could find were poor indeed. Sadly, L8 was not much help when asked for more clarification and I just got frustrated and pulled the spacers back off.
Regarding the 34" tires - I had been running a 33" Cooper STT Pro for a while and had told myself that since I don't push the 3 that much these days I'd be smart to step it back to a milder tire next time, possibly the ST/Maxx or another of the 'tweener' AT/MT tires, probably in the same size. That would better suite the over-all usage of the truck and the tire would be quieter, have lower rolling resistance, and longer life. Of course when it came down to it I couldn't resist so I went to the new Yokohama G003 in 285/70-18. The key there was in studying the tire specs that 285 section tire was in fact only .1" wider than the old Cooper 275 section tires. As it was the 275 was just kissing the upper ball joint on the fronts at certain articulation/steering inputs. Since the new tire was basically the same width I figured it wasn't anything a little percussive maintenance couldn't resolve.
I now have one trip on the new tires and have found some more trimming I'll need to do, but I think they'll work fine. I still suffer the same gearing issues of course but there's no getting around that. This may end up being the last tires I put on the truck since I don't drive it a lot any more but who knows; I can't resist tinkering! And thanks for the note on the Expdition spacers - I'll look at those. I do already have the L3 kit on hand though so that's likely what I'll start with.
Thanks again!
Regarding the 34" tires - I had been running a 33" Cooper STT Pro for a while and had told myself that since I don't push the 3 that much these days I'd be smart to step it back to a milder tire next time, possibly the ST/Maxx or another of the 'tweener' AT/MT tires, probably in the same size. That would better suite the over-all usage of the truck and the tire would be quieter, have lower rolling resistance, and longer life. Of course when it came down to it I couldn't resist so I went to the new Yokohama G003 in 285/70-18. The key there was in studying the tire specs that 285 section tire was in fact only .1" wider than the old Cooper 275 section tires. As it was the 275 was just kissing the upper ball joint on the fronts at certain articulation/steering inputs. Since the new tire was basically the same width I figured it wasn't anything a little percussive maintenance couldn't resolve.
I now have one trip on the new tires and have found some more trimming I'll need to do, but I think they'll work fine. I still suffer the same gearing issues of course but there's no getting around that. This may end up being the last tires I put on the truck since I don't drive it a lot any more but who knows; I can't resist tinkering! And thanks for the note on the Expdition spacers - I'll look at those. I do already have the L3 kit on hand though so that's likely what I'll start with.
Thanks again!
I should also mention - the basic thing that gets me thinking about coils or at least spacers on the air struts again is the stiffness of the air bag ride when at off-road height. I don't normally even put the truck into off road setting except to get though specific obstacles, but last Saturday with the bigger tires I ran it there to combat the rears rubbing the door/wheel arch trim under flex. The very high bag pressures needed to lift the truck to that height of course make the ride quite rough but more importantly SEVERELY limit the truck's traction on rough climbs. Just watch video of any air bag Rover with rods in off-road height climbing and you can see the front end bouncing off the road, breaking grip. Yes, it provides more clearance but at a significant cost and that's why as noted I try not to use the higher setting until actually needed. I've seen this on the LR3, 4, and now on the D5. So I'm hoping that by running the spacers on my air struts I'll be able to use off-road height without that penalty.
I also had a new club member who was asking about coils for his 3 as a future mod so in discussing that with him I also started thinking about it again for my truck. And that's how we ended up at me cruising over to ExPo again for the first time in ages and dropping yesterday's post.
Thanks again - see you guys at the 2020 Rovicon in August and the GARR in Sept! (no, I won't be using the LR3 on either
)
I also had a new club member who was asking about coils for his 3 as a future mod so in discussing that with him I also started thinking about it again for my truck. And that's how we ended up at me cruising over to ExPo again for the first time in ages and dropping yesterday's post.
Thanks again - see you guys at the 2020 Rovicon in August and the GARR in Sept! (no, I won't be using the LR3 on either
)Is the LR3 strut bolt pattern the same as an expedition?
Ray_G
Explorer
In the rear. Allegedly. I'll confirm at some point since I actually have an expedition rear perch in my garage in WV.
soflorovers
Well-known member
We spoke about this briefly over Instagram dm and I unfortunately didn't have much input for you at the time. After using my LR3 a bit more, I can tell you that the factory air is probably your best bet for stuffing a larger tire. As you alluded to in a subsequent post, I seldom use "off road" height in my LR3 with the SYA/rods combo because the bags become way too stiff and it just starts to bounce everywhere; I use it exclusively when I think I'm going to high-center the rig. Unfortunately, the truck sometimes decides to override my recommendations and switches to extended mode as soon as it believes we're going to bottom out; I have to figure that one out.
Now...lets discuss the real issues here. Bags v. coils isn't the real topic when discussing 34/35" tires, but rather it's the CVs. To get the lift you seek with coils given the weight of your particular LR3, you're going to have to go outside of the usual OME options and get a custom set built. Even if you went through all the trouble of getting some bespoke adjustable coil overs and new control arms, the HD CVs/axle combos for these things through LK8 are $4500, which is a TON of money when you consider an immaculate LR3 is $10,000. For me, 35" tires are the limit (although I've been told by the PO of my rig that a 37" technically fits in the wheel well) with the current drive train, and that's on a truck with the HD pack and upgraded rear axles. I wouldn't even consider a 33" or above on a non-HD LR3.
One option that may be worth exploring is to fabricate some form of subframe spacer kit to alleviate the drivetrain angles. Someone managed to stuff a 37" on an RRS using this method.
EDIT: I just realized that you had commented on that older thread already so I'm sure you're familiar with it.
37's on a Range Rover Sport
This took some work but it turned out great. It's a 6" lift with 37's. I posted picks a while back when it had 35's. Adding the 37's required significant trimming of the wheels wells. There's absolutely no rubbing and the ride is great since we're still using the air suspension. I'm heading...
expeditionportal.com
6" Lift on a 2015 Sport
After 4 1/2 months it's finally done. The lift is 6" and all height settings still work. The pictures are taken in "normal" height mode. The tires are 35" requiring some slight fender trimming but it's hardly noticeable. 37" tires fit but there's more trimming required so I'm going to stick...
expeditionportal.com
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soflorovers
Well-known member
"I ran it there to combat the rears rubbing the door/wheel arch trim under flex. "I should also mention - the basic thing that gets me thinking about coils or at least spacers on the air struts again is the stiffness of the air bag ride when at off-road height. I don't normally even put the truck into off road setting except to get though specific obstacles, but last Saturday with the bigger tires I ran it there to combat the rears rubbing the door/wheel arch trim under flex. The very high bag pressures needed to lift the truck to that height of course make the ride quite rough but more importantly SEVERELY limit the truck's traction on rough climbs. Just watch video of any air bag Rover with rods in off-road height climbing and you can see the front end bouncing off the road, breaking grip. Yes, it provides more clearance but at a significant cost and that's why as noted I try not to use the higher setting until actually needed. I've seen this on the LR3, 4, and now on the D5. So I'm hoping that by running the spacers on my air struts I'll be able to use off-road height without that penalty.
I also had a new club member who was asking about coils for his 3 as a future mod so in discussing that with him I also started thinking about it again for my truck. And that's how we ended up at me cruising over to ExPo again for the first time in ages and dropping yesterday's post.
Thanks again - see you guys at the 2020 Rovicon in August and the GARR in Sept! (no, I won't be using the LR3 on either
Yeah, that's non-existent on mine. Where the trim/rear doors meets the rear wheel well was cut out long ago ? .
Yeah, mine will be too shortly. Just need to pick up some more clips to re-attach the plastics.