Need Some Recommendations Please

[jwolfuo]

I'm in the process of completing reviews of several products that fit your trip. I do think the Sea to Summit sleeping bags and pads are some of my favorites in the last two years. I used a Talus Ts II in Nepal and consider it one of my favorite bags. Spendy outlay of cash, but it will last forever. The Trek TK 1 is another great bag. And inflating the Comfort Light Insulated manually is super fast. Not a big deal to blow it up. I breath all day long so a few puffs into a pad isn't a problem. Great comfort or a modest thickness. There's a misconception that greater thickness equals greater comfort.

Another bag I really enjoy, and it does come with some extra weight and bulk, is the Nemo Fusion 30. I attended a media trip with Nemo in New England and used that bag during our climb of Mt Washington. I've never understood the weirdness of their bag designs. Then I slept in one. Now I get it. Insanely comfortable and the seemingly goofy blanket fold and funky shape...work. Go figure. I'm not a big guy, but loved the wiggle room.

http://www.nemoequipment.com/product/?p=Fusion 30 Long

I really underestimated the price of a quality bag. The Nemo Fusion 30 looks amazing and I definitely see what you mean about that goofy blanket fold. I have no clue what it's for or why it's there. The shape makes sense for me personally as it looks more comfortable as a side sleeper. I think the added weight and bulk would be manageable, especially due to the fact that I don't plan on backpacking for more than a week. The initial leg up Trolltunga in Norway (first 1.7km or so) is a bit rough, but after that I doubt I will even notice the pack on my back. I'll add this one to the consideration list!

You've been a huge help so far in providing great options. I really appreciate it!

 

[Christophe Noel]

The blanket fold on the Nemo works once you slip into the bag. You instinctively will tuck it around your neck like you would any blanket when it gets chilly. When it gets really chilly and you wiggle deep into the hood, the blanket fold can be draped over the hood opening to seal it up even more. Again, it seems ridiculous, but once I used it a couple of times, I wished all bags had it.

With my weight distribution, I often elect to go slightly heavier with the pad and bag if necessary and try to reduce weight in the shelter. With the pad and bag, it's tough to cull out more than a few ounces here and there. With tents, you can extract a pound or more with a well chosen tent. Once you're asleep, which should be at least 6-7 hours of the time you spend in your tent, it won't matter if it's a palatial abode or just barely large enough for your body. With that, I often sleep in tiny tents. For trips when every gram counts, I can shave my tent, shelter, pad and cook system down to well under 8 pounds total. That's still comfortable.

My typical backpack weight for a 3-4 day trip on foot usually clocks in at a total of 26-30 pounds with food and water. And camera gear!

 

[Kerensky97]

Thank you for your reply! I am also a little worried about getting the down sleeping bag wet. I heard they dry much slower than their synthetic counterparts - so I will be investing in a rain cover for the Osprey pack as a 'just in case'. I will definitely take a look at the Marmot bags.

Good call, I forgot about that but that is their #1 drawback. Although I think it takes a lot of moisture to really cut into their performance like almost full immersion in water; in just in regular use I've never had a problem but I also keep it out of rain like you say. I only noticed the issue whenever I try to clean wash it and it takes 2 weeks of fluffing to get the clumps out.

 

[thefishhawk]

I only noticed the issue whenever I try to clean wash it and it takes 2 weeks of fluffing to get the clumps out.

when you dry it on low temp put a half dozen or more tennis balls in the dryer, the balls beat up the clumps and it comes out all fluffy. Works for coats and everything too. Or if you air dry it do that after on no heat.

I agree with what Christophe said about almost all of it is really good from the big name makers. It's so hard to know with everyone's personal preferences and what they like. I have very specific things I look for in a tent after learning what I like through the years. I tend to look for closeout specials and last years models on stuff. I like things that are basic, functional, and solid, what I want and nothing more. it is very easy to find closeout tents and bags online for half price anymore.

I would recommend you try stuff if you can. I know that can be hard but bags are pretty hard to fit if you are a big guy (or at least know what chest and waist measurements you are looking for) and pads are especially personal. I find it pretty hard to beat a good old thermarest but the new stuff is really interesting they are doing with inflatables these days. the STS ones are nice though, the material was kind of crinkly for me, I'd be curious to hear from Christophe on the durability, it sure seems like thin material. Having a flat pad is no fun.

Had a real good customer service experience with STS lately though where they sent me a new inflatable pillow. I appreciated them coming through and backing it up but the first one didn't live up to my expectations of durability vs cost. So the jury is still out there to see how the second one does. I don't mind paying for quality but that means it's gotta last a lot of years.

 

[jwolfuo]

when you dry it on low temp put a half dozen or more tennis balls in the dryer, the balls beat up the clumps and it comes out all fluffy. Works for coats and everything too. Or if you air dry it do that after on no heat.

I agree with what Christophe said about almost all of it is really good from the big name makers. It's so hard to know with everyone's personal preferences and what they like. I have very specific things I look for in a tent after learning what I like through the years. I tend to look for closeout specials and last years models on stuff. I like things that are basic, functional, and solid, what I want and nothing more. it is very easy to find closeout tents and bags online for half price anymore.

I would recommend you try stuff if you can. I know that can be hard but bags are pretty hard to fit if you are a big guy (or at least know what chest and waist measurements you are looking for) and pads are especially personal. I find it pretty hard to beat a good old thermarest but the new stuff is really interesting they are doing with inflatables these days. the STS ones are nice though, the material was kind of crinkly for me, I'd be curious to hear from Christophe on the durability, it sure seems like thin material. Having a flat pad is no fun.

Had a real good customer service experience with STS lately though where they sent me a new inflatable pillow. I appreciated them coming through and backing it up but the first one didn't live up to my expectations of durability vs cost. So the jury is still out there to see how the second one does. I don't mind paying for quality but that means it's gotta last a lot of years.

From what I gathered, the high-end inflatables have a bunch of individual air pockets. If the mat is punctured, only one individual pocket at the puncture location would be affected - so you would still not be lying on a flat pad. The StS one in particular includes 6 patch kits with purchase.

 

[Christophe Noel]

A couple of important points to clarify here. With regard to the issue of down fill and getting it wet. Being outside has rules. Don't stand on a mountain top in a thunderstorm. Don't start a tickle fight with a bear. Don't cook in your tent. Do not...get your bag wet. I have sea kayaked for thousands of miles in Alaska, Canada and Mexico with a down bag. Not once did it ever get wet. It's just something you don't do. By the way, the same mistake that gets your down bag wet will get your synthetic bag wet. Both scenarios are going to be critically bad. Put your bag in a waterproof stuff sack and you will be fine. If weather is truly terrible, just know that you can't get your bag wet. I lived in a part of Alaska that got 14 feet of rain every year. Keeping my bad dry was priority one and really not that hard.

With regard to Marmot bags. There was a time in the late 90s when they were the bee's knees and my personal favorite. Those days - are over. They're pretty mediocre now.

Lastly, the latest crop of inflatable sleeping pads are surprisingly durable if you use them with common sense. And while they do have multiple cells or baffles, one tiny hole is all it takes to ruin your night's sleep.

And here's your pro-tip about pad punctures. Get yourself a tiny funnel. Then get a small 6" section of tubing and attach it to the funnel. You now have a homemade stethoscope. It's the absolute best way to find a pinhole in a pad, even in the dark of night. How to find a pinhole in a pad:

1) When you wake up bottomed out on your pad, first things first, reinflate and ensure the valves are sealed. You'll probably do that many times before relenting to step 2.
2) CAREFULLY, get off your pad and lift it to the side. Very carefully inspect the floor of your tent. Look for anything that could have poked your pad. This will ensure you don't poke it again, and it gives you a place to search on your pad for a hole.
3) Get out your patch kit (always at the ready and not buried in your pack) and your sweet stethoscope. Start at the pressure points to listen for rushing air. Most holes are found at the hips, torso and shoulders. By the way, always sleep on one side of the pad every time. This keeps you from having to inspect both sides for holes.
4) Find the hole, patch the hole.
5) Reinspect the floor of the tent. Then reinspect it again. Then one more time.

Go back to sleepy.

 

[PlacidWaters]

I've been looking to upgrade my air mattress to the Exped SynMat. I like how you can pump it up with your hands.

A nice recent addition to the Synmat lineup is the Synmat 7 3-D, which has box sides and NO pump. http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/synmat-3-d-7-mw

The box sides give you a bit more usable width. For inflation it comes with the yellow schnozzel, which is way, way easier to use than the previous built-in pump. It weighs 32.5 oz in the MW size.

Now, if you're willing to add 8 ounces more, take a look at the Synmat Mega 12 MW, which weighs 40.4 ounces and is 4.7" thick. Yes, that's heavy by backpacking standards, but you can't get a more comfortable backpacking mattress. There is a very big difference in comfort between 2.8" (Synmat 7) and 4.7".

The way you justify this extra weight is to shave 1 lb off something else in your pack.

 

[PlacidWaters]

I have sea kayaked for thousands of miles in Alaska, Canada and Mexico with a down bag. Not once did it ever get wet. It's just something you don't do. . . . Keeping my bad dry was priority one and really not that hard.

I feel like the dangers of a wet down sleeping bag are exaggerated. I've been using a down bag for years and have only once gotten it wet, due to stupidly putting my tent in a depression that flooded. Also, some interesting tests on YouTube show how difficult it is to get down to absorb water. And today a lot of sleeping bags come with DownTek water repellent down. I don't feel that Down-Tek is necessary and it adds weight, but maybe it's useful.

I don't think there is any reason other than saving a bit of money to choose synthetic over down.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I don't feel that Down-Tek is necessary and it adds weight, but maybe it's useful.

Hydrophobic down fill technology is in my opinion, the single most significant advancement in outdoor tech in the last 25 years. It truly works. It also does not add any weight. In fact, most of the current crop of hydrophobic treatments reduce the overall weight by bolstering the fill-power of the down itself.

 

[Evil weevil]

Check out the tarp tents the are super I have one that we just love so nice and light they also have a 4 man tent the hog back that comes in at 4.39 lbs! Not bad

 

[PlacidWaters]

Hydrophobic down fill technology is in my opinion, the single most significant advancement in outdoor tech in the last 25 years. It truly works. It also does not add any weight. In fact, most of the current crop of hydrophobic treatments reduce the overall weight by bolstering the fill-power of the down itself.

Perhaps I misspoke about the weight, but I noticed that LL Bean sleeping bags gained about 4 ounces when they went to Down-Tek. Plus they went up considerably in price.

My question is whether hydrophobic treatments are necessary. I find that it's just not that hard to keep a sleeping bag dry. If you're concerned, you can put it in a waterproof bag. But honestly, in many, many years of backpacking, kayak camping, bike camping, and car camping I've only had one mishap. I don't even put my sleeping bag in a waterproof bag in my kayak and have never had anything happen. You could get it wet running from your kayak to your tent in a downpour, but there are ways to prevent that.

Condensation on the sleeping bag could be a concern, but with a properly vented tent that's never happened to me either. And it can be solved with water-repellant fabric on the top. A tent that collapses in a rainstorm could be another concern for the sleeping bag. Also never happened to me.

This video shows what happens when you put untreated down in water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDx14xueEJA

I don't really have anything against hydrophobic down, plus it confirms my main point, that there's no reason to go with a synthetic sleeping bag other than price.

 

[jwolfuo]

Update:

I made my first purchases today! I took advantage of backcountrygear.com's labor day sale and purchased the Sea To Summit Trek TK II sleeping bag. Also, I snagged the MSR Elixir 3 Tent. Now I just need a sleeping pad plus the Osprey 70 Aether that I mentioned in the first post.

After doing some more research, and talking to MSR reps (who mentioned to me that MSR's iso/butane containers are all made the same way, with the same threads, and available in Europe), I've decided on a foolproof plan for cooking! Or at least I think so...? My plan is to bring my MSR Pocket Rocket, so if I find fuel canisters I can use it. If not, I plan on using these two devices in combination: Vargo Outdoors Converter Stove + Vargo Outdoors Hexagon Wood Stove. I figure this combination will allow me to use wood, alcohol, gel, or tablets (and iso/butane with the MSR Pocket Rocket) as a fuel source for cooking. They pack very small together and are lightweight.

 

[Christophe Noel]

You will most certainly be able to find fuel canisters in Europe. Quite easily. Just remember two things: Never leave your stove connected to your fuel can unless you're using the burner. Always keep the can warm prior to firing the stove. Carry a spare just in case you goof number one and you let your fuel escape into the aether.

 

[Christophe Noel]

My question is whether hydrophobic treatments are necessary.

There are many bonuses to hydrophobic down. For starters, most of the current methods actually boost the fill power of the down. Some down fills, once treated, can go from 800 to 850, 850 to 900, etc. So, it actually improves the down itself. Secondly, it opens up the ability to use duck down, which previously has been a lesser quality fill because...it stinks...literally. The new hydrophobic downs mitigate the oils that make duck down not so great. Down products of any kind, also need to be washed regularly. Dirt and body oil is the number one killer of down over the long haul and washing down has always come with some risk of damaging the loft. When Sea to Summit's engineers first started testing their Ultra Dry Down, they started washing it repeatedly to see how much degradation of loft they would observe. They eventually washed a bag so many times, they gave up. The nylon was pooping out long before the hydrophobic down. So, washing hydrophobic down is easier, less likely to ruin the fill, and thus makes for a bag which will ideally, last indefinitely.

The other advantages are important to note. Most hydrophobic downs will take 30% more water and exposure to water to fully wet. They will also dry 30% faster than non-treated down. But here's the real kicker. If you get your non-treated bag wet in the field, chances are high that it will never recover. Hydrophobic down can be dried in the field (without the dryer needed for non-treated down) with 100% recovery to the down loft.

As for the additional cost, according to most down purveyors, the additional cost to consumer has an industry average of less than 5%. Some noticed a bump in prices when hydrophobic down hit the market, but much of that had to do with world-wide increases in the base price of down. After 2008 and the global financial crash, simply producing the birds to make the feathers got rather expensive.

 

[jwolfuo]

You will most certainly be able to find fuel canisters in Europe. Quite easily. Just remember two things: Never leave your stove connected to your fuel can unless you're using the burner. Always keep the can warm prior to firing the stove. Carry a spare just in case you goof number one and you let your fuel escape into the aether.

That's what I've been reading. My first choice would be to use the canisters as they are just so much more efficient and easy to work with. I've located a few sports stores in Oslo, Norway which is where I will fly into - I'll be sure to call them before I go and check if they have the canisters.

For the small amount of weight that I will be adding (less than 10oz), I am still probably going to bring along the Vargo Outdoors items. They seem like they will be fun to test out. Plus, they will make a nice addition to a bug-out/EDC bag when I get home or they can just live in the Jeep