Need technical rifle help

[Clark White]

How do I tell if a scope is bad or if I have a problem with my rifle? I have a Remington 700 SPS .308 that cant hit the broad side of a barn. I bought it brand new, have taken good care of it, and can't see a bloody thing wrong with it. I had a Nikon scope on it and it got thrown out of my buddies truck at 80MPH when he was run into a ditch by a semi. That was shortly after I purchased it, so I do not really know how it shot before that. I have since put a real nice Bushnell on it and thought all my problems had been solved. Then today, I went shooting, having not touched the scope, and it was all over the place, off the paper and such. I have flown with the gun, but it was in a very nice steel case (could the baggage handlers have thrown it hard enough to screw up a second scope?). Could it be the rifle? I don't really have access to ANOTHER scope, so how can I figure this out? I KNOW it's not me, because I borrowed my buddies gun and was shooting the hair off a gnat's ********. What about gunsmiths, how do I find a good one I could trust?

Thanks!
Clark

 

[UK4X4]

Have you sighted in the scope ?

ie you need to adjust the scope to suit you and the rifle ?


or your trying to do this and the results are inconsistant

 

[Haggis]

Some things to do before you see a gunsmith.

*If your rifle has iron sights remove the scope and shoot a group with the iron sights to remove the scope as a variable.
*Put the scope on another gun, bore sight it in and see if it will group on the new rifle.
*Try a different make of ammo. You'd be surprised the difference that ammo can have on accuracy. Cheap ammo, especially some of that imported stuff, is like anything else, you get what you pay for.
*Are you quickly touching of rounds? Some guns are more acceptable to induced barrel heat the others and will throw rounds when heated up.

I think that the toss out of a truck is the culprit and your scope is toast. Go buy a Leupold VIII, mount it up and I'd bet your problems are solved. From the sounds of it I doubt that your rifling is leaded up or that the crown is mucked up. It take alot of rounds out of a high power without cleaning to result in those two things happening.

 

[KevinNY]

Need details. How bad is "broad side" of a barn and at what distance? Have you removed the stock and checked the bedding? Have you tried shooting it at very short range, like 25 yards, to get the scope centered?

 

[7wt]

More details, is it grouping but just not on the paper? Do you know where it's hitting? What distance are you trying to shoot it at? If it groups well regardless where it's hitting it's the scope. Things to look for:

Mount, is it sturdy with no means of vibration?

Are the rings pinching the optics? Does it look like the tube is being crushed by the rings?

Are the rings aligned? You would be surprised how many rifles have their rings out of alignment causing the scope to be optically twisted. This will change POI at it's will after each shot.

Non optical thing to look at, does the joint between the barrel and action wiggle? Does the action itself wiggle? Is there a crack in the stock?

Thump the gun as it's laying on it's side and listen for a vibration.

 

[obscurotron]

1. Pull the scope and check ring alignment. There are tools to do this, but it can be done on the cheap by laying a piece of proper diameter rod or pipe in the mounts and using a feeler gauge to check for gaps.

2. Check the torque on the ring screws. About 20 in-lbs is all you need, more will compress/crush the scope body, leading to optical distortion.

3. Have the barrel and action checked for true.

4. Remove the action from the stock and check the mounting holes and screws. Re-install and re-torque the mounting screws. If the action wanders in the stock, you're whizzing into the wind with each shot.

5. Use a piece of duct tape (no joke, an old 'smith taught me this one) in the
bottom half of the rings as friction material. This, plus proper torque on the ring screws, keeps the scope from walking.

6. In addition to proper torque, consider some *blue* locktite. Remember to adjust your torque values for wet vs. dry torque. The scope ring maker can give you this data, and if they can't, get better rings from someone who can. Leupold rings have wet and dry values and their customer service folks have this info, from personal experience.

7. Sandbag the snot out of the rifle on a bench with the crosshairs or post on the 'X' of a target at 50 yards, with the bolt out of the rifle. Look down the bore at the target and compare alignment. This is poor-man's boresighting, but I find it more accurate sometimes than using a boresighter. Send 3 rounds downrange and let the rifle cool for 15-20 minutes. Repeat the above alignment check and see if anything has changed. If so, you may have a bad barrel (rare, but it happens).

8. To find a gunsmith, talk to folks around you, visit local ranges and see where other shooters go. Also, if any local Community or Vocational school has a gunsmithing program, get in touch with the dept. head or head instructor and talk to him or her.

Remington rifles are generally one of the most accurate out-of-box, even with poopy cheap scopes (if installed properly). Sub-MOA with a 700 is typical, MOA is typical for a newbie shooter (not saying you are, but it's an indication of what to expect, generally).

Also, have the trigger pull checked. I've had rifles that came with "product liability" trigger pulls of 8-14lbs. That's just too much and will induce poor shooting. I've plinked with a Sako in 30-06 and shot 1/2 MOA at 100 yds with a 3.5lb pull and plinked with a 700 set to 8lbs and barely shot 2MOA with the same ammo and scope. It makes a WORLD of difference.

Good luck!

How do I tell if a scope is bad or if I have a problem with my rifle? I have a Remington 700 SPS .308 that cant hit the broad side of a barn. I bought it brand new, have taken good care of it, and can't see a bloody thing wrong with it. I had a Nikon scope on it and it got thrown out of my buddies truck at 80MPH when he was run into a ditch by a semi. That was shortly after I purchased it, so I do not really know how it shot before that. I have since put a real nice Bushnell on it and thought all my problems had been solved. Then today, I went shooting, having not touched the scope, and it was all over the place, off the paper and such. I have flown with the gun, but it was in a very nice steel case (could the baggage handlers have thrown it hard enough to screw up a second scope?). Could it be the rifle? I don't really have access to ANOTHER scope, so how can I figure this out? I KNOW it's not me, because I borrowed my buddies gun and was shooting the hair off a gnat's ********. What about gunsmiths, how do I find a good one I could trust?

Thanks!
Clark

 

[Clark White]

My setup is a Remington 700 SPS with a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 Mil Dot using Leopold rings and base. The scope the was thrown from the truck was a Nikon Buckmaster that I replaced with the Bushnell. At 100yrds shooting from a bench, it is shooting maby a 2MOA grope, with the occasional flier that is much worse then that (I am shooting 168gr Federal Gold Medal Match). This is shot on a cool day (55*F?) with no wind. Shooting my buddies Remington 700 5min later I was shooting 1/4MOA, so I am fairly confident it is not me (my buddies gun is modified, so more accurate, but mine should still be sub MOA). I can't see or feel any looseness anywhere to indicate something is loose, though I will re torque the bolts and see if that helps. There is no visible crushing of the scope tube, but could over torquing have damaged the scope anyway?

Clark

P.S. Sorry for the slow reply, the forum was down by the time I tryed to check it yesterday.

 

[ntsqd]

FWIW Having been given the job, more than once, of trying to remove scope ring screws that were lock-tited I highly advise that no one ever do this. Base screws, yes; but not ring screws.The tension in the screws should be enough to keep them from coming loose. If they do come loose you need a better quality set of rings or a muzzle brake on that 2.5 lbs rifle.

When pitched out of the truck was the rifle in any sort of hard case? Do you know for certain that the barrel isn't bent? Would not take much, as in can't see it with a naked eye, to really screw things up.

When the new scope was mounted did the existing base come off, get cleaned, and properly re-installed? Would not surprise me if a hit hard enough to damage a scope could have jarred the base loose enough to only move under recoil.

 

[Clark White]

Yes, the whole base has been replaced, but no, I had not even considered a bent barrel. It was in a nice stainless steel foam fill case, along with my M-4 which thankfully survived unscathed. After much consideration these last few days, and talking to some sniper friends of mine, I am going to pick up a 700 SPS Tactical and keep this one for a project riffle sometime down the road when I have time and money to play.

Clark