Not sure about the USA but in the UK they use coloured 2 part epoxy paint to re-coat swimming pools, boats and floors, and it supposed to be OK in UV light. Maybe worth checking.
http://www.antel-uk.co.uk
New and Improved Camper Box Build - Ver 2.0
- Thread starter Heifer Boy
- Start date
Not sure about the USA but in the UK they use coloured 2 part epoxy paint to re-coat swimming pools, boats and floors, and it supposed to be OK in UV light. Maybe worth checking.
http://www.antel-uk.co.uk
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Standard paint is all that's needed to UV protect the epoxy. It is simply a barrier so doesn't need to be anything special. Normal varnish will do the trick too boaties who want a 'bright' finish.
But the big question is what to paint it with. I've been reading up on paints and what people use for campers and obviously the 2-pack automotive is the bees knees. Next popular would be single pack epoxy and then marine paints. But these are all expensive, sometimes hard to apply and it's not a boat so isn't sitting in water all day. I won't be spraying either.
Very popular for you guys in the US is Rustoleum which is similar to our Kill-Rust and Hammertone paints. It's a really hard enamel available everywhere. The problem is it so hard it can crack with movement and although I like the simplicity and finish I'm not sure it's right for this wooden box coated in a nice flexy epoxy even though the box seem extremely stiff. It's still a big contenter though as I can roll it, it has good knock protection and I can even polish it.
But then I read a post from a guy who had worked in the paint industry for 35 years and I was able to confirm his thoughts elsewhere. He said that the industry spends 90% of there research dollars on house paint because that's where the market is. External paints in particular have to be able to be applied easily and last for years and years with no maintainance because homeowners expect it. So a high quality, brand name external latex paint is some of the most advanced, long lasting and hardwearing on the market. Easily found, easy to apply and easy to repair if needed. So maybe a high gloss exterior latex is the way to go.
I'm going to be rolling it over a coat of a White Knight epoxy grip primer and I'm a good painter so am happy I can get a good finish this way.
So what does everyone else think? Kill-Rust or Exterior Latex?
But the big question is what to paint it with. I've been reading up on paints and what people use for campers and obviously the 2-pack automotive is the bees knees. Next popular would be single pack epoxy and then marine paints. But these are all expensive, sometimes hard to apply and it's not a boat so isn't sitting in water all day. I won't be spraying either.
Very popular for you guys in the US is Rustoleum which is similar to our Kill-Rust and Hammertone paints. It's a really hard enamel available everywhere. The problem is it so hard it can crack with movement and although I like the simplicity and finish I'm not sure it's right for this wooden box coated in a nice flexy epoxy even though the box seem extremely stiff. It's still a big contenter though as I can roll it, it has good knock protection and I can even polish it.
But then I read a post from a guy who had worked in the paint industry for 35 years and I was able to confirm his thoughts elsewhere. He said that the industry spends 90% of there research dollars on house paint because that's where the market is. External paints in particular have to be able to be applied easily and last for years and years with no maintainance because homeowners expect it. So a high quality, brand name external latex paint is some of the most advanced, long lasting and hardwearing on the market. Easily found, easy to apply and easy to repair if needed. So maybe a high gloss exterior latex is the way to go.
I'm going to be rolling it over a coat of a White Knight epoxy grip primer and I'm a good painter so am happy I can get a good finish this way.
So what does everyone else think? Kill-Rust or Exterior Latex?
windsock
Adventurer
G'day HB,
I'd go with the house paint concept (exterior latex sounds interesting in more ways than one
). I'd investigate what paint is used most often in the part of Australia you are in or intend to travel most in. If it stands up to the climate on houses in those areas it ought to do just fine on your camper-box.
Looking very good. :wings:
I'd go with the house paint concept (exterior latex sounds interesting in more ways than one
). I'd investigate what paint is used most often in the part of Australia you are in or intend to travel most in. If it stands up to the climate on houses in those areas it ought to do just fine on your camper-box. Looking very good. :wings:
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Stage Twenty Three – Final Sand and Painting!!!
Once the epoxy was nice and hard the whole box got a rough sand to feather all the joints and I then sanded it again with a fine grit paper to give a good surface to paint on.
In the end I decided to paint the box with Kill-Rust Enamel and I read in many places that a primer was not required over epoxy at it is a suitable enough surface to go straight into the top coats. So I sanded the box, dusted it down, wiped it down with meths and vacuumed the whole workshop before starting but it wasn’t going to be that simple.
Something contaminated the paint!!!
As it dried small craters called ‘fisheyes’ started appearing in the paint surface and investigation suggested it was something like silicon or aerosol or oil on the surface. I couldn’t think what it could be because I was so careful with the prep. Finally decided it was either the cloth I wiped it down with or the anti-rust additives in Kill-Rust reacting with the epoxy. Unfortunately I had painted all the bottom surfaces and the three doors. AARRGGHH!!!
Because it is so cold I had to wait 72 hours for things to harden enough to be able to sand it all off. Out came the belt sander, detail sander and sanding block and as carefully as I could, that’s exactly what I did. There are a few gouges and over sanded bits but overall I was happy with it and I got it all off. Sad after I had such a good surface before. There were no craters in the epoxy so it was just the paint surface that was the issue. Then I cleaned and vacuumed everything again and wiped it down with new, washed cotton rags and a proper automotive ‘Degreaser/De-waxer’ and I was finally back to where I started again.
This time I just painted the small hatch cover and used Norglass Weatherfast Premium Enamel Gloss. It’s designed for this stuff so epoxy issues should be a non-issue.
I waited a bit and…same thing again!!! What the…!!! :Wow1:
This time I wiped the paint off with thinners so I didn’t have to sand again but then it was back to the paint shop for some Norglass NoRust All Surface Primer which is suppose to stick to anything and perfect over epoxy. All this paint is getting expensive!!!
I painted the primer on a different test piece…waited a bit and… it was perfect!!! YAY!!! :wings:
It was the nice smooth finish I was after in the first place. So everything got a coat of primer and two top coats of the marine paint with a light sand between each coat and now I had a nice, shiny, gloss white box. Why couldn’t it have been this simple 3 weeks ago?
So in hindsight I don’t think it had anything to do with using Kill-Rust or not using primer or painting straight over epoxy. It was some external contamination and I still don’t know what it could have been. I do have to say that the Norglass paints are absolutely wonderful to use and I won’t hesitate to use them again. Goes on really easily, paint right to the edge, no runs and it sands beautifully. Lightyears ahead of anything I’ve ever used before and I’ve painted a lot of things over the years.
But...there’s always a but…all is not perfect. When I flipped the box over and was doing the top panel there still appeared a lot of fisheye craters. Every other panel is fine except for the top. All the panels were prepared the same way and wiped down the same way so there is still a mystery going on in my garage. None of the craters will be seen as it is underneath the RTT but it’s really disappointing and I know it’s there and not right. I didn’t take any photos of all the mess first time around as I was busy sanding it all off.
Before I flipped the box I also attched the pine runners to the bottom that will help it slide into the back of my ute. These are just bolted on and are expendable if necessary.
At least all the doors and visible stuff looks great. The box looks fantastic and I’m super happy with it. I love the contrast between the gloss white exterior and the wood interior. It’s going to have a real ‘wow’ factor when I open it up. Yippee!!!
Next step…assemble all the pieces!!!
Once the epoxy was nice and hard the whole box got a rough sand to feather all the joints and I then sanded it again with a fine grit paper to give a good surface to paint on.
In the end I decided to paint the box with Kill-Rust Enamel and I read in many places that a primer was not required over epoxy at it is a suitable enough surface to go straight into the top coats. So I sanded the box, dusted it down, wiped it down with meths and vacuumed the whole workshop before starting but it wasn’t going to be that simple.
Something contaminated the paint!!!
As it dried small craters called ‘fisheyes’ started appearing in the paint surface and investigation suggested it was something like silicon or aerosol or oil on the surface. I couldn’t think what it could be because I was so careful with the prep. Finally decided it was either the cloth I wiped it down with or the anti-rust additives in Kill-Rust reacting with the epoxy. Unfortunately I had painted all the bottom surfaces and the three doors. AARRGGHH!!!
Because it is so cold I had to wait 72 hours for things to harden enough to be able to sand it all off. Out came the belt sander, detail sander and sanding block and as carefully as I could, that’s exactly what I did. There are a few gouges and over sanded bits but overall I was happy with it and I got it all off. Sad after I had such a good surface before. There were no craters in the epoxy so it was just the paint surface that was the issue. Then I cleaned and vacuumed everything again and wiped it down with new, washed cotton rags and a proper automotive ‘Degreaser/De-waxer’ and I was finally back to where I started again.
This time I just painted the small hatch cover and used Norglass Weatherfast Premium Enamel Gloss. It’s designed for this stuff so epoxy issues should be a non-issue.
I waited a bit and…same thing again!!! What the…!!! :Wow1:
This time I wiped the paint off with thinners so I didn’t have to sand again but then it was back to the paint shop for some Norglass NoRust All Surface Primer which is suppose to stick to anything and perfect over epoxy. All this paint is getting expensive!!!
I painted the primer on a different test piece…waited a bit and… it was perfect!!! YAY!!! :wings:
It was the nice smooth finish I was after in the first place. So everything got a coat of primer and two top coats of the marine paint with a light sand between each coat and now I had a nice, shiny, gloss white box. Why couldn’t it have been this simple 3 weeks ago?
So in hindsight I don’t think it had anything to do with using Kill-Rust or not using primer or painting straight over epoxy. It was some external contamination and I still don’t know what it could have been. I do have to say that the Norglass paints are absolutely wonderful to use and I won’t hesitate to use them again. Goes on really easily, paint right to the edge, no runs and it sands beautifully. Lightyears ahead of anything I’ve ever used before and I’ve painted a lot of things over the years.
But...there’s always a but…all is not perfect. When I flipped the box over and was doing the top panel there still appeared a lot of fisheye craters. Every other panel is fine except for the top. All the panels were prepared the same way and wiped down the same way so there is still a mystery going on in my garage. None of the craters will be seen as it is underneath the RTT but it’s really disappointing and I know it’s there and not right. I didn’t take any photos of all the mess first time around as I was busy sanding it all off.
Before I flipped the box I also attched the pine runners to the bottom that will help it slide into the back of my ute. These are just bolted on and are expendable if necessary.
At least all the doors and visible stuff looks great. The box looks fantastic and I’m super happy with it. I love the contrast between the gloss white exterior and the wood interior. It’s going to have a real ‘wow’ factor when I open it up. Yippee!!!
Next step…assemble all the pieces!!!
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Thanks Billhilly but I'm more of a Speights man myself :beer: It's a shame I can't get over here.
Looking good! Even when stuff doesn't "require" a primer I tend to find it definitely helps to use one...
When you say "fish eye" are you talking about what we sometimes call pin holes? Supposedly fiberglass work can be notorious for it. It happens because there are little holes in the piece that are hard to see. Sometimes they get bridged (but not filled) by the primer and later on the bridge collapses or blows out (from expanding air). It's more problematic with using micro balloon fillers I read but I'm sure it's an issue with straight glass too. Rolling a coat or two of epoxy on after all the fairing work (then just a quick sanding of that) is supposed to help cut down on the problem, also after priming and quick sanding really inspect the piece of any pin holes and use a glazing putty if needed. At least that is the advice I've read so far.
When you say "fish eye" are you talking about what we sometimes call pin holes? Supposedly fiberglass work can be notorious for it. It happens because there are little holes in the piece that are hard to see. Sometimes they get bridged (but not filled) by the primer and later on the bridge collapses or blows out (from expanding air). It's more problematic with using micro balloon fillers I read but I'm sure it's an issue with straight glass too. Rolling a coat or two of epoxy on after all the fairing work (then just a quick sanding of that) is supposed to help cut down on the problem, also after priming and quick sanding really inspect the piece of any pin holes and use a glazing putty if needed. At least that is the advice I've read so far.
compactcamping
Explorer
Heifer Boy Looking Good! You'll be camping with it in no time.
What might have caused the fish eye is "blush", it's a waxy bi-product from the curing process of epoxy. Some are worst than others. Solvents does not remove it, it's removed with water.
What might have caused the fish eye is "blush", it's a waxy bi-product from the curing process of epoxy. Some are worst than others. Solvents does not remove it, it's removed with water.
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
I think you a right with the primer advice. I think I was subconsciously trying to cut corners by avoiding another coat and getting it done. The primer made all the difference.
I do have some pinholes too which are as you described. Pretty much unfilled weave despite all the coats of epoxy. It's only in the small overlaps around the edges and I put it down to being a first timer. Something to think about next time.
The fisheyes are small oily looking craters that you can tell are caused by something on the surface rather than a mechanical hole in the weave. They are 1mm to 3 mm across maybe.
I can't wait to get out there. Hope it warms up a bit first though.
You could be right on the blush although BoteCote is suppose to be non-blushing. I didn't wash off with water so maybe that's it. Someday I'll do some tests and check this out. Thanks.
indiedog
Adventurer
Very very nice work HB. :wings: Bugger about the paint process and I know what you mean about "knowing" it's not perfect, I have that problem too. :costumed-smiley-007 But after all that it certainly looks close to being done.
I'd be interested to hear what your costs have been to date, and what you think they'd be if you only painted it once.
Cheers, Indie.
I'd be interested to hear what your costs have been to date, and what you think they'd be if you only painted it once.
Cheers, Indie.
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Remember Me?
Well it's been over 2 months since I last posted but I didn't fall off the edge of the planet or go bush and never come back. I just got very sidetracked with life and all work on the camper ground to halt for a while.
I got caught up having to unfortunately move house which is always a pain but especially so when you are part way through a project like this. I ended up with a lot of trips to Sydney nearly every week and in the middle of it all I had to train and compete in a 100km MTB race with only a months notice!! It seems like minor stuff but it sucked all the momentum out of the camper build which just got packed away and moved.
Thanks to those who wondered where I was. I have finally been getting back into it all and there are updates to follow. Nearly finished too...
Well it's been over 2 months since I last posted but I didn't fall off the edge of the planet or go bush and never come back. I just got very sidetracked with life and all work on the camper ground to halt for a while.
I got caught up having to unfortunately move house which is always a pain but especially so when you are part way through a project like this. I ended up with a lot of trips to Sydney nearly every week and in the middle of it all I had to train and compete in a 100km MTB race with only a months notice!! It seems like minor stuff but it sucked all the momentum out of the camper build which just got packed away and moved.
Thanks to those who wondered where I was. I have finally been getting back into it all and there are updates to follow. Nearly finished too...
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Firstly, An Apology and a Belated Thank-you
Way, way back at the end of May I posted about doing my electric system and I included a photo of my Baintech fuse block. I soon got a pm from a fellow forumite who commented how crappy my labels were (I'm paraphrasing here LOL) and how it let down the rest of my build. He also said he could do better as he was a Industrial Engraver so a few emails later and he had sent me a few strips of black-on-white, metal, self-adhesive labels to fit my fuse block and also label the all switches I had installed.
My intention was to finish the camper very soon after and was going to post before and after photos and a thank-you. As you are all aware, that time frame has blown out somewhat.
So, a huge apology and many, many belated thank-yous to Aaron (King Triton on http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum) for his great labels and for helping make my build look so much more professional. The labels are really cool and look great so if you need quality labelling then be sure to get a hold of King Triton here http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=16586.
Check out the difference below!! Thanks Aaron.
Way, way back at the end of May I posted about doing my electric system and I included a photo of my Baintech fuse block. I soon got a pm from a fellow forumite who commented how crappy my labels were (I'm paraphrasing here LOL) and how it let down the rest of my build. He also said he could do better as he was a Industrial Engraver so a few emails later and he had sent me a few strips of black-on-white, metal, self-adhesive labels to fit my fuse block and also label the all switches I had installed.
My intention was to finish the camper very soon after and was going to post before and after photos and a thank-you. As you are all aware, that time frame has blown out somewhat.
So, a huge apology and many, many belated thank-yous to Aaron (King Triton on http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum) for his great labels and for helping make my build look so much more professional. The labels are really cool and look great so if you need quality labelling then be sure to get a hold of King Triton here http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=16586.
Check out the difference below!! Thanks Aaron.
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Stage Twenty Four – Assembly Starts
The last thing I got to do before moving house was get the doors on the camper so they weren't something else to move.
The first thing was to get the camper up on the trolley. From this point onwards I was going to be permanently adding weight and it wasn't going to be easy to move.
Then I fitted all the tool box compression locks and the hinges for the last time. Everything had been pre-fitted so it was a pretty straight forward process.
And Tada!! All done!!
The last thing I got to do before moving house was get the doors on the camper so they weren't something else to move.
The first thing was to get the camper up on the trolley. From this point onwards I was going to be permanently adding weight and it wasn't going to be easy to move.
Then I fitted all the tool box compression locks and the hinges for the last time. Everything had been pre-fitted so it was a pretty straight forward process.
And Tada!! All done!!
Heifer Boy
Adventurer
Stage Twenty Five – Main Door Support
I just looked at the dates on the photos and between the last photo posted and the next one is a gap of a month exactly. And look at the first thing I did!! I tried fixing up a previous problem from a month ago and had a go at cutting my thumb off with a panel saw instead. Luckily my favourite first aid nurse wrapped me up once she got over the sight of blood!!!. In the end it wasn't very deep and healed up pretty fast. Nasty.
So made up a bracket to mount to the bottom of the main door to take the pressure off the hinges when closed. It will support the leading edge which should help a lot when thrashing around offroad. It's just a piece of alloy angle with some UHMWPE strips screwed to the bottom. It works well.
This was the first proper thing I made in my new garage. It's tiny and packed full of stuff compared to the great workshop I had at the last house. This is part of the reason it took me so long getting back into the build. Oh well. I'll cope.
I just looked at the dates on the photos and between the last photo posted and the next one is a gap of a month exactly. And look at the first thing I did!! I tried fixing up a previous problem from a month ago and had a go at cutting my thumb off with a panel saw instead. Luckily my favourite first aid nurse wrapped me up once she got over the sight of blood!!!. In the end it wasn't very deep and healed up pretty fast. Nasty.
So made up a bracket to mount to the bottom of the main door to take the pressure off the hinges when closed. It will support the leading edge which should help a lot when thrashing around offroad. It's just a piece of alloy angle with some UHMWPE strips screwed to the bottom. It works well.
This was the first proper thing I made in my new garage. It's tiny and packed full of stuff compared to the great workshop I had at the last house. This is part of the reason it took me so long getting back into the build. Oh well. I'll cope.