New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Carson G]

Never did see a Lucky8LLC D5 front bumper. Only a winch tray. I recall the wing radiators were a problem but maybe they solved that? Maybe not.

No they never did build a front bumper just the winch tray.

 

[mpinco]

No they never did build a front bumper just the winch tray.

So a 'front bumper' is an entire front clip replacement with duct work and thermal management investment.

Never going to happen. D5 or Defender.

 

[JeepColorado]

Found something kinda disappointing today on the new Defender. Those auxiliary radiators that the D5 has are on the new Defender as well in the exact same spot. That’ll make it a pain to fit a aftermarket winch bumper. Not impossible but definitely a pain. Other than that it looks pretty straight forward to install one.

OMG, do you mean that LR designed the vehicle in such a way that it's not optimal for off-road use, to include the well-established desire of 4x4 enthusiast to do aftermarket modifications? I don't believe it- the Defender is the greatest 4x4 machine ever conceived of according to many people on this forum. This just doesn't make sense!

Contrast that with Jeep - a company that actually builds the Wrangler in a way that makes it easier to do modifications and you'll start to see who is here for the 4x4 crowd and who just wants to appear to be as a marketing ploy.

 

[Carson G]

So a 'front bumper' is an entire front clip replacement with duct work and thermal management investment.

Never going to happen. D5 or Defender.

As far as I can tell by the diagram I saw there are no ducts for the radiators. From what I read it could be that not all of them have the aux radiators. There looks to be room behind the winch mount where the aux radiators could be relocated into a single larger radiator, you should be able to sandwich it between the winch tray and factory main rad.

 

[Carson G]

OMG, do you mean that LR designed the vehicle in such a way that it's not optimal for off-road use, to include the well-established desire of 4x4 enthusiast to do aftermarket modifications? I don't believe it- the Defender is the greatest 4x4 machine ever conceived of according to many people on this forum. This just doesn't make sense!

Contrast that with Jeep - a company that actually builds the Wrangler in a way that makes it easier to do modifications and you'll start to see who is here for the 4x4 crowd and who just wants to appear to be as a marketing ploy.

Honestly if it weren’t for those dang radiators this thing would be cake to put a winch bumper on.

 

[JeepColorado]

But the Defender does exactly that - it excels on the road as well as off, and will keep you safer than a Wrangler in the process, even if after an additional $10,000+ in modifications a Wrangler can go places a Defender won't.

Yeah, I'll take the Defender, thanks.

A Defender is on-par with an out of the box Wrangler Sport or Sahara- it's just $20-$30 more- but all 3 vehicles would do about the same things. A Defender couldn't do everything a Wrangler Rubicon would do off the show room floor- no modifications needed. If you did want to throw a little cash at the Rubi you could build a vehicle that can go places the Defender's air suspension couldn't reach and for a lot less than 10,000. Put a good pair of shocks on the Wrangler to smooth out the ride some and you end up with a vehicle that costs less, is comparable on the road, and beats the Defender off-road easily. I'll take the Wrangler.

 

[JeepColorado]

Honestly if it weren’t for those dang radiators this thing would be cake to put a winch bumper on.

You are thinking too superficially- you need to look deeper. It's not the radiators fault. It's probably not even the Engineers faults- I assume they are smart people- it's the business leaders faults. The Radiators are where they are because the leaders of the organization don't care about what people like us would want to do with this vehicle. They care about what the fashionistas think; style over substance, form over function- it's artificial and superficial. LR made that choice a long time ago- if you think they even a little bit care about enthusiast- look at the DC100- a prototype that was so heavily mocked and ridiculed that they had to take it away and yet now it has returned as the Defender- except this time it has those hideous "angry eyes" on the front. It's a shame you won't be able to cover that entire front end up with a Full -Width ARB Bull Bar and some lights and a winch- it definitely needs to be covered up.

 

[Carson G]

You are thinking too superficially- you need to look deeper. It's not the radiators fault. It's probably not even the Engineers faults- I assume they are smart people- it's the business leaders faults. The Radiators are where they are because the leaders of the organization don't care about what people like us would want to do with this vehicle. They care about what the fashionistas think; style over substance, form over function- it's artificial and superficial. LR made that choice a long time ago- if you think they even a little bit care about enthusiast- look at the DC100- a prototype that was so heavily mocked and ridiculed that they had to take it away and yet now it has returned as the Defender- except this time it has those hideous "angry eyes" on the front. It's a shame you won't be able to cover that entire front end up with a Full -Width ARB Bull Bar and some lights and a winch- it definitely needs to be covered up.

IMO the biggest mistake they made was not going with the previous prototype that was built on the T5 platform that would’ve solved most problems.

 

[calicamper]

I agree especially if we’re talking about the US market. If you want proven reliability you could go with a 200 Land Cruiser if you want more off road capability and modifiability then you go with the Jeep Wrangler or if you want a lot of payload and solid off road capability you go with the Defender. When the Bronco comes out we’ll see where it stands. The new Defender is not going after quite the same market as the old one Land Rover has said this themselves they’re going after the overland market primarily not necessarily the government/industrial market although I’m sure some will be used in that capacity just like Discos are. In some ways that decision is a blessing and a curse. Everything is a compromise. Frankly here in the US a chassis cab Defender wouldn’t sell that well I’d love to have one but that doesn’t mean there is a big enough market to support it. Frankly if you wanted one bad enough I’m sure the aftermarket could build one it’s completely doable. I really wish Toyota would bring the 70 series to the US though I’d probably buy that over any Jeep or Defender the 200 just doesn’t do it for me.

You do realize payload is based on physics and marketable drivability right? If you think any passenger vehicle Sold in the US thats as big or smaller than the wrangler will have a magically larger payload than even larger platforms. I have a bridge to sell ya with some cheap swamp land on the other side.

 

[Carson G]

You do realize payload is based on physics and marketable drivability right? If you think any passenger vehicle Sold in the US thats as big or smaller than the wrangler will have a magically larger payload than even larger platforms. I have a bridge to sell ya with some cheap swamp land on the other side.

Yes I’m aware of that. The Defender has a higher rated payload than the Wrangler or Land Cruiser. The Defender is around 1,900lbs the Wrangler JLU Rubicon is around 890lbs and the LC200 is around 1,600lbs.

 

[DieselRanger]

A Defender couldn't do everything a Wrangler Rubicon would do off the show room floor- no modifications needed.

I think that's debatable. Unlimited vs 110, 2-door vs 90, my bet is the Defender can go where the Rubicon goes. In fact, the Defender has a better wading depth off the lot, so right there you're proven wrong.

 

[DieselRanger]

Never did see a Lucky8LLC D5 front bumper. Only a winch tray. I recall the wing radiators were a problem but maybe they solved that? Maybe not.

They have a steel bash plate, winch tray, sliders, and others make an a-bar, but no bumper.

Doesn't seem to bother people like Kinglsey Holgate. Had to Google "Road to Hell South Africa."

 

[jaydoc14]

A Defender is on-par with an out of the box Wrangler Sport or Sahara- it's just $20-$30 more- but all 3 vehicles would do about the same things. A Defender couldn't do everything a Wrangler Rubicon would do off the show room floor- no modifications needed. If you did want to throw a little cash at the Rubi you could build a vehicle that can go places the Defender's air suspension couldn't reach and for a lot less than 10,000. Put a good pair of shocks on the Wrangler to smooth out the ride some and you end up with a vehicle that costs less, is comparable on the road, and beats the Defender off-road easily. I'll take the Wrangler.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but to think that throwing new shocks on a wrangler makes the on road performance comparable is laughable. I've owned multiple wranglers and love them, but they are what they are, and that is not good from an on road perspective when compared to virtually any other modern SUV.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but to think that throwing new shocks on a wrangler makes the on road performance comparable is laughable.

How much ride comfort does the average person need? Now how much comfort does an overlander, one who supposedly embraces discomfort, need? I've never once been so unsettled by even a (leaf-sprung) pickup truck to think "damn this thing is uncomfortable!" I guess it's just the state of mind that LR attracts in 2020. You guys should get one of these and ride center in total comfort.

 

[jaydoc14]

Performance does not equal comfort.