New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

Highlander

The Strong, Silent Type
Well, the founder of the company is an avid outdoors man and countryman. He's been a huge fun of LR since he was a kid.
He publicly begged LR not to screw up the Def. They did not listen and allegedly mocked him too.
He said ok f### you guys and made this happen. I respect that.

The new Defender will be an SUV for rich hipsters in London and NYC as matter of fact I saw one in Catskill, NY driven by a guy with a cute mustache.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Well, I love it.

I like the utilitarian design language--it's a softened, updated Defender 110; its sloped nose hints at a Mercedes G300. Moreso I like their whole back-to-basics approach to modernizing the utility wagon--beam axles, coil springs, barn doors, steelies, and so on. They originally discussed a payload well north of a ton; I hope that holds. A starting price of ~40K Euros suggests down-spec'd beauty.

16-ineos-grenadier-static-side.jpg
 
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JeepColorado

Well-known member
"Number one focus was off-road mobility and capability"

"There are two engines, a petrol and a diesel, both 3.0-litre straight-sixes from BMW. Smartly, Ineos has a deal that covers the next generation of engines as well.
Transmissions are from ZF, axles from tractor-makers Carraro, and a lot of the development work has been done by Magna, the same people who make the G-Class for Mercedes."

" there will be a lot of options and accessories, and Ineos is working with aftermarket specialists to ensure they can offer good-quality bolt-ons."

 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
Now that's what the defender should have been.

And major lolz at the computer rendering of BFG's with a Thornbird tread pattern. If that's not a trolling sense of humor, poking at the off road guys, then I'm nuts. Can't wait to see one in person.
 
That's one good looking ride; can't say I'm a fan of the low A-Pillar apron but see why it is what it is because of the low bonnet design.

My first look at @JeepColorado picture posts is the similar mashing of Defender and G-Wagon. The actual reveal looks slightly different but surely you can see the mix of two vehicles in the overall package. I've never had a split rear barn door vehicle but I surely love the swing out door, maybe one door vice 60/40 split would be bette in the long term so anyone who has take on that as far as split rear door advantages/disadvantages fill me in. Excited to see the interior and hopefully an engineering layout of the driveline, wiring, ECU layout will come soon too.

Very nice, I'd save my pennies for that beauty for sure; still have to see how the US support plan is going to be this. I'm not a huge warranty claim kind of guy but the first years are going to prove some production issues like all vehicles and just want to know who is going to fix it and how and how long.

Someone remind me on the base price they mentioned a while back?
 

soflorovers

Well-known member
BMW B58 turbo straight six? That's a real reliable, "fix it with a pair of pliers" type of motor. TBH not sure if I'd rather have that or a new JLR mill under the hood for reliability.
Ignoring the historical issues with BMW's turbo straight sixes (looking at you N54), I still think the use of a BMW powerplant is an excellent move. In terms of global support, you can find a BMW dealer (or at minimum an aftermarket parts supplier) on every corner of the earth.
 

JeepColorado

Well-known member
I was wondering how Ineos was able to copy so much of the original Defender. Turns out LR never patented the original design of the Defender. When they found out what Ineos was doing, they tried and a judge shot them down saying that by that time it wasn't unique enough from other boxy SUVs.

 

T-Willy

Well-known member
That's one good looking ride; can't say I'm a fan of the low A-Pillar apron but see why it is what it is because of the low bonnet design.

My first look at @JeepColorado picture posts is the similar mashing of Defender and G-Wagon. The actual reveal looks slightly different but surely you can see the mix of two vehicles in the overall package. I've never had a split rear barn door vehicle but I surely love the swing out door, maybe one door vice 60/40 split would be bette in the long term so anyone who has take on that as far as split rear door advantages/disadvantages fill me in. Excited to see the interior and hopefully an engineering layout of the driveline, wiring, ECU layout will come soon too.

Very nice, I'd save my pennies for that beauty for sure; still have to see how the US support plan is going to be this. I'm not a huge warranty claim kind of guy but the first years are going to prove some production issues like all vehicles and just want to know who is going to fix it and how and how long.

Someone remind me on the base price they mentioned a while back?

Around $45K USD.
 
I was wondering how Ineos was able to copy so much of the original Defender. Turns out LR never patented the original design of the Defender. When they found out what Ineos was doing, they tried and a judge shot them down saying that by that time it wasn't unique enough from other boxy SUVs.


@JeepColorado There was a story about it long ago on this thread somewhere about the licensing lawsuit that JLR tried putting on Ineos over the body and that is how it went down; no patent on the design but I think they had it for the name. JLR lost and Ineos went forward and here it is. Almost impossible to win a design patent lawsuit cuz the next guy can make a few changes and split the seams; I think that is the same reason why the Ineos grill set up is very different; almost too different on purpose cuz that is a sure design of the legacy Defender they probably intentionally redirected but then kept the headlights as an ****....lol.

@soflorovers very true, but like my point I mentioned pages back; it takes legal processes so if I take my Ineos to BMW cuz I think I have an engine issue but then it turns out its a body control harness, who fixes it and who is responsible for the warranty? That is all I want to know; I think Ineos owes the population a support plan on a vehicle that is put together with something like 7 different countries worth of labor and manufacturers to say "Here is your Ineos, this is how it gets fixed and where you take it."

Exactly what Tesla had to do when they did not have dealers and their support plan was massively expensive their first years but they held to their customer base even though they got beat up pretty bad over some big issues. I'm all for Ineos and want to see this thing all over and I would love one if it is affordable and makes sense, regardless, there is no talk of dealerships, warranty service, etc.. on the public sites yet to what I can see to answer the questions I think many people want to know. Just cuz it has a BMW engine in it, doesn't mean BMW is going to fix it or be responsible for it or put it in front of their service claims unless that is what the agreement is. If my door seals leak, panel shifts, wheel bearing, etc.. who gets that service call?

On that note, like I said before I am not a warranty guy but on a new Vehicle you bet your ****** I am to get things fix that are deficient; I'm not talking about squeaks and rattles, etc. but that will surely get fixed if its an issue by the dealer/manufacturer as I don't do the J##P Spirit thing; I'm referring to major issues that limp the vehicle or are significant enough that either inhibits the usage or high expense items. 95% of maintenance can be done at home no issues, but that is not what I paid for on a new vehicle that comes with a warranty and service plan. If I am out and about and have a problem and do my repair, I could very well have just voided my warranty on the entire powertrain. Is their talk of Ineos dealerships, service centers, etc. in their PR releases?

So yeah, if I have a 3 year or 5 year warranty service plan with my sweet new G-Fender (that's what I am calling it Defender/G-Wagon :p), I mean Ineos needs to inform peeps on the plan for consumer confidence or warranty claims and lawsuits will bury these guys in litigation. Tons of people talking about how they do not have a JLR dealer in their area for hundreds of miles and it was a showstopper for a JLR purchase to travel hundreds of miles for service/warranty; Ineos has exactly ZERO in the country and people are like yeah, BMW engine, they will fix the whole vehicle...........INEOS actual public release; crickets!

I can't be the only guy thinking this; too many assumptions on that one for me to get on board. I'd like to think BMW might pick up the service on the whole vehicle but until Ineos releases that publicly, I think we are making a lot of assumptions at this point.
 

Corgi_express

Well-known member
I think the hood on the Grenadier looks hideous, but lots of people said that about the Defender 2 and I think it looks great. Pretty much everything else about the aesthetics of the Grenadier is pretty great - probably sucks for aero, but so does the Wrangler and I wouldn't mind owning one of those either.

For a long time, I cross-shopped the Gladiator and the Defender, before (mostly) settling on the Defender. I might at least have to give the Grenadier a look, if the towing payload is decent.
 

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