New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[EricTyrrell]

How many women drive Wranglers? I think you will find a whole lot of Wrangler drivers are women.
Hell, I bet you will find that a lot of women also adore the old Defender.

Classic Defenders are as gender neutral as a utility vehicle is going to get.

Around here,the only G-Wagon drivers I see (loads of them around here) are all women too. They park where they please while do their shopping or whatever it is they do when they "just pop in".

Yes, Mercedes has abandoned the utility market as well. They make butch hand bags.

 

[Pilat]

Classic Defenders are as gender neutral as a utility vehicle is going to get.

So? My point was that when you're discussing capabilites of a vehicle, why would you care who drives that same brand/model?

Yes, Mercedes has abandoned the utility market as well. They make butch hand bags.

See above.

 

[Pilat]

Yet it sells better than ever and fuels the largest 4x4 community by far.

Yes: Rock crawlers and other who wants a cheap vehicle to modify. Oh, and women (as you mentioned apparently as a strike against Land Rover).

Speaking of which: How many use a Wrangler as a work vehicle. It is so tough according to you. So I ask again: How much does it tow and carry?

 

[EricTyrrell]

No it wasn't. If it was, the old Defender wouldn't have sold so poorly.

LR's past neglect of the vehicle is distorting your perspective. The Jeep JL is unsafe in the context of 2020, but it sells extremely well. The CJ7 was unsafe as well in the context of 1985, but again sold well. If the JL was as unsafe as the CJ7 it wouldn't sell either.

 

[blackangie]

Classic Defenders are as gender neutral as a utility vehicle is going to get.



Yes, Mercedes has abandoned the utility market as well. They make butch hand bags.

Have you not seen the gwagon professional, nice bit of kit actually, i see the new defender competing with that and the luxury gwagon.

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[EricTyrrell]

So? My point was that when you're discussing capabilites of a vehicle, why would you care who drives that same brand/model?
See above.

It was a response to BR's objection that the LR3/4/5 are handbags. If I only see them being used by women, the prissy type, or as status icons, I think the handbag nickname fits.

 

[Pilat]

LR's past neglect of the vehicle is distorting your perspective. The Jeep JL is unsafe in the context of 2020, but it sells extremely well. The CJ7 was unsafe as well in the context of 1985, but again sold well. If the JL was as unsafe as the CJ7 it wouldn't sell either.

No, "past neglect" is apparently the same as the Wrangler: Almost unable to pass any reasonable safety standards. That's not my perspective being distorted. Both the Wrangler and the old Defender are not good off roading. The wrangler a tad worse at anything over crawling speed, but the old Defender was no good either compared to modern equivalents.

 

[blackangie]

LR's past neglect of the vehicle is distorting your perspective. The Jeep JL is unsafe in the context of 2020, but it sells extremely well. The CJ7 was unsafe as well in the context of 1985, but again sold well. If the JL was as unsafe as the CJ7 it wouldn't sell either.

Something selling well is not a good argument for if something is good and worth buying.

Usually the best products are in lower numbers and bought by decerning buyers.

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[Pilat]

It was a response to BR's objection that the LR3/4/5 are handbags. If I only see them being used by women, the prissy type, or as status icons, I think the handbag nickname fits.

Yeah, but lifted trucks are just "excellent offroad". Not "manbags" or "status icons".
No, you definitely attempted to turn it all into a question of "image", rather than capabilites or facts.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Have you not seen the gwagon professional, nice bit of kit actually, i see the new defender competing with that and the luxury gwagon.

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I love it. However the only models we get in the US, start at $124,500 MSRP. So yes, here they are unequivocally not even a consideration.

 

[blackangie]

It was a response to BR's objection that the LR3/4/5 are handbags. If I only see them being used by women, the prissy type, or as status icons, I think the handbag nickname fits.

Maybe check out just about every landrover 4x4 forum in the world and lucky8s page, i wouldn't be posting up the prissy type comment

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[DieselRanger]

I'm 6th in line at my dealership for ordering the new Defender. I don't know the last time I saw so many people get triggered over a new model, of course it is replacing the iconic Defender. Oh well, I'm used to being an outcast, even among the LR crowd because I drive a LR4. Even though it's 8 years old now, the old Defender and Series crowd hate it because it's too modern. The Disco 1 and 2 guys hate it because with Terrain Response, it makes most obstacles look easy and I don't have the dreaded "Tres Amigos" problem. Did I mention that my other vehicle is a Range Rover Evoque? I love that thing too! Sorry, I just don't get butthurt over the modern Land Rover products and I sorta like the direction the brand is heading.

View attachment 552062

Don't mean to one-up you, but I drive a D5, and even though it's 800lbs lighter than a LR4, and has Terrain Response 2, even the LR4 guys look down on me. So I understand your pain, even if I done feel it - I have no brand loyalty to "ideals" but rather to proven capabilities. The D5 kills it, and the Defender promises similarly extraordinary performance, so I'm hopefully optimistic even if the front end looks just a little dated already.

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[blackangie]

I love it. However the only models we get in the US, start at $124,500 MSRP. So yes, here they are unequivocally not even a consideration.

No the us website states us49k msrp starting price, check your facts

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[Pilat]

I love it. However the only models we get in the US, start at $124,500 MSRP. So yes, here they are unequivocally not even a consideration.

They are ridiculous vehicles up close. Fast though. But if I wanted to go that fast on the road, I'd by a smaller, nimbler car.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Yeah, but lifted trucks are just "excellent offroad". Not "manbags".
No, you definitely attempted to turn it all into a question of "image", rather than capabilites or facts.

I could count ten-thousand pickup trucks, Jeeps, and old-school SUVs for every single Land Rover I see off-roading, in industry, or just loading something at Home Depot. Of Land Rovers, I see pristine LR3s and LR4s driving around the medical district most often. It's night and day.