New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Blaise]

Excellent handling is a high priority of Jags and Range Rovers, not the Defender.

You're factually wrong. Because as far as we can tell, this thing will actually handle decently on road. EAS and IFS will make that happen.

So yes - that is a priority. Your *opinion* is that it should not be a priority. But it is. Fact. You cannot argue fact.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I said "cars". You posting HD trucks and old, old cars designed as commercial vehicles and then converted to campers.

I checked, just to make sure and this is all I found..

Oh, and I'm still waiting for that list of solid front axle "overlander" vehicles from you.

How many of them have solid axle fronts?

Enough with your lying, general dishonesty, and moving of the goal posts.

hmm..

 

[EricTyrrell]

You're factually wrong. Because as far as we can tell, this thing will actually handle decently on road. EAS and IFS will make that happen.

So yes - that is a priority. Your *opinion* is that it should not be a priority. But it is. Fact. You cannot argue fact.

Read again.

The topic is the Defender. Excellent handling is a high priority of Jags and Range Rovers, not the Defender. It's a consideration, but lower on the priority list for a utility vehicle at the opposite end of the product lineup.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Stop lying.

Even cheapo cars have independent suspension at the front because it is so much better than solid axles and contributes to safety via better handling than a solid axle. It doesn't necessarily mean "excellent handling" - it depends on the engineering and the amount of money thrown at it. It means "better handling". I never said "excellent handling" was a natural consequence of IS. That said, you will never come close to either with a solid axle at the front.

How do you think the P38 and D2 handled? However you describe it, it was more than adequate for a Defender, which would only be improved with further development. IMHO they handle better than some modern IS SUVs.

 

[Blaise]

You edited your post. I read it fine the first time.

Again, you're still wrong, because you don't get to decide what the priorities are. Thankfully. You just have an opinion and you're working really hard to express something you cannot change.

 

[Todd780]

Read again.

The topic is the Defender. Excellent handling is a high priority of Jags and Range Rovers, not the Defender. It's a consideration, but lower on the priority list for a utility vehicle at the opposite end of the product lineup.

I think I understand what you mean. It's like a Grand Cherokee Overland vs Wrangler Rubicon comparison. Correct?

 

[EricTyrrell]

It's not a "ruse". It's a fact. And while something can be appropriate for a given time, engineering and materials tech moves forward. My point was that you want to live in the past.

I want to live in the now, where solid axles are used when appropriate.

You even mentioned that independent suspension was the realm of luxury cars. Not realising that even cheapo ones have it.

I'm of the opinion that IS/Air is the realm of luxury cars. IS alone is appropriate for a wider, share of the market, but not all. I apologize if my position was unclear.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I think I understand what you mean. It's like a Grand Cherokee Overland vs Wrangler Rubicon comparison. Correct?

Correct. Different order of priorities for different folks.

 

[Blaise]

Hey guys, I'm REALLY upset the iphone no longer has a headphone port. I WANT TO LIVE IN THE NOW.

Also somebody took the floppy drive out of my PC. ******.

Nobody is stopping you from driving an older car man. Just drive the older car... why rant about the Defender...

 

[Pilat]

I checked, just to make sure and this is all I found..









hmm..

I can't be bothered to go through my posts (no easy search function for threads that I can find), but "car" has been mentioned by all of us throughout this thread, but the clincher is this: We are talking about the Defender - a car, other Land Rovers - cars, and comparing it to the Wrangler - another car.
I have several times mentioned that IS at the front is even on cheapo cars.
You then show some cheaply made commercial Heavy Duty trucks to somehow show that they're better at handling. Even if you were right that we weren't talking about cars (which you aren't), it would still not prove your point. At all.

So, yes, you're constantly lying, being dishonest, and constantly moving the goal posts.

 

[Pilat]

You edited your post. I read it fine the first time.

Again, you're still wrong, because you don't get to decide what the priorities are. Thankfully. You just have an opinion and you're working really hard to express something you cannot change.

That's why you should quote him. He has no qualms about lying and misrepresent what is being said.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Hey guys, I'm REALLY upset the iphone no longer has a headphone port. I WANT TO LIVE IN THE NOW.

Also somebody took the floppy drive out of my PC. ******.

Nobody is stopping you from driving an older car man. Just drive the older car... why rant about the Defender...

I see your comparison, and it gave me a good laugh, but it's not positioned quite right. The iPhone is somewhat of a luxury/consumer good. A better comparison would be "Hey guys, I'm REALLY upset the Dell Precision 7920 no longer has a headphone port. I WANT TO LIVE IN THE NOW."

The Precision is a tool, a specialized workhorse, like the Defender.

 

[Pilat]

I want to live in the now, where solid axles are used when appropriate.



I'm of the opinion that IS/Air is the realm of luxury cars. IS alone is appropriate for a wider, share of the market, but not all. I apologize if my position was unclear.

It's not that it is unclear. It is that you constantly move the goal posts and are willing to lie to pretend to be right, and your insistence that you can somehow overcome the problems of having the wheels connected without disconnecting them.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I can't be bothered to go through my posts (no easy search function for threads that I can find), but "car" has been mentioned by all of us throughout this thread, but the clincher is this: We are talking about the Defender - a car, other Land Rovers - cars, and comparing it to the Wrangler - another car.
I have several times mentioned that IS at the front is even on cheapo cars.
You then show some cheaply made commercial Heavy Duty trucks to somehow show that they're better at handling. Even if you were right that we weren't talking about cars (which you aren't), it would still not prove your point. At all.

So, yes, you're constantly lying, being dishonest, and constantly moving the goal posts.

Man, I went back just to see if I missed your "car" specification. Didn't see it. At least I checked. Maybe you did specify that. Hard to tell now.
Never knew you were asking for a list of cheap overland cars.
Is the Wrangler a car? It's a body-on frame solid axle vehicle, like many trucks. It's shorter than trucks with a bed, but wait, now we have the Gladiator. Is that a car? My LR3 weighed 700lbs more than my F150. Is the LR3 a car or a truck?

I mean, I can go find pics of guys overlanding in cheap solid axle trucks if you want. It's not that difficult.

 

[Blaise]

I see your comparison, and it gave me a good laugh, but it's not positioned quite right. The iPhone is somewhat of a luxury good. A better comparison would be "Hey guys, I'm REALLY upset the Dell Precision 7920 no longer has a headphone port. I WANT TO LIVE IN THE NOW."

The Precision is a tool, a specialized workhorse, like the Defender.

I'd argue that there is an enormous amount of work which is accomplished on iPhones every day. I know I do.

Ultimately, the truth is that no matter how much you disagree with a design decision made by a company, you cannot do anything other than rage/hate on it (and vote with your wallet). Same goes with technology. And if people are buying the new stuff... you're SOL.

For example, I *LOVE* the manual transmission. I've spent every day since turning 15 getting my pedal work so perfect that I've driven many miles without a clutch (due to failures) without issue. I love how good I've gotten at it. But now, a kid can buy a PDK/SMG/etc transmission which will out perform my up or downshifts with the push of a literal button. Technology progresses.

I also love IC engines. I'm extremely competent with repairing and maintaining them and it allows me to own vehicles like my LR3 for insanely low prices because I'm in no way worried about fixing anything on the fly. But soon, electric will take over. You won't see me ranting about that either.... technology progresses.

You can be upset, but you can't change it. And one day, autonomous vehicles will arrive...