New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

Unless you can answer how you overcome the physics of the wheels being connected, I think I can safely say you're yet another waster of my time. You really a luddite - to the extent that you will not research anything and continue to use arguments that would make an ignorant rock crawler proud.

How do you solve the problems caused by the wheels being connected?

 

[DieselRanger]

Were the low volumes a result of the Defender or were they a result of zero investment for 35 years? The frame, suspension and power train went on to live in the very successful Discovery I and II till 2004, models that LR has failed to eclipse with the LR3, LR4 and Discovery 5. The Defender was a self fullfilling outcome. No investment? No volume.

And yet here a number of people claiming to be its core customer base are trying to say Old Defender is Best Defender. But no one was buying it, even in the countries where it was still on sale.

Now, they have invested in the Defender and made it better, and those "core customers" say they should have left it alone.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Pilat]

Invitation still stands. Come go for a drive. Bring your IFS vehicle and I'm still confident that my solid axle one will outperform it at speeds much higher than crawling speeds.

And for the record, my photos weren't to "prove" anything. Just to show an example of why having ample wheels travel is important. Equally so, your video doesn't "prove" anything.

Yes, NOW you claim they weren't there to prove anything (yet you contradict yourself in the very same sentence). You obviously posted those pictures to prove a point. I posted that video to show you that your point - whatever it was you claim at any given time - was moot.

 

[REDROVER]

I dare you to challenge my stock H1 with 4 wheel independent suspension.

If you are near any state close to California let’s run for $$$ you chose the Offroad course.
I bet you independent suspension on the H1 will make you think twice on the solid axle superiority.
The vehicle that wins the change is the vehicle that has the most traction aid, regardless solid axle or IFS
That’s an old nonsense that SOLID is better.

The only advantage of sold axle is less moving parts,
Disadvantage is, you will roll over immediately at 40mph sharp turn,
independent suspension vehicle will not.

who has the guts? PM me.

 

[Box Rocket]

Unless you can answer how you overcome the physics of the wheels being connected, I think I can safely say you're yet another waster of my time. You really a luddite - to the extent that you will not research anything and continue to use arguments that would make an ignorant rock crawler proud.

How do you solve the problems caused by the wheels being connected?

Oh my hell! Are you for real? I have no doubt that you feel like everyone is a waste of your time. You are the most pointless person to try to have a discussion with. And resorting to name calling and insults just shows the lack of depth in your intelligence and maturity. Continue fighting your keyboard battles to feel good about your existence. This thread deserves to be locked just to keep you from saying anything else.

 

[soflorovers]

you are absolutely correct! It is the shock package that I'm running that makes all the difference. That is precisely the point! It is the components and other variable that make it perform, not merely being IFS. Listen, I'm not some die-hard solid axle guy that claims solid axles are the end all be all. I love IFS! It is the RIGHT choice in many cases and I own IFS vehicles. But @Pilat is making idiotic claims plain and simple and isn't worth engaging in a discussion because of his lack of understanding.

It can be debated as to whether or not the benefits of IFS outweigh the benefits of a solid axle. Is IFS adequate offroad, sure in many cases. I offroad in IFS vehicles all the time and they are more than "adequate". I will agree that for the majority on this forum, IFS is completely sufficient for what they do offroad. Sufficient and adequate doesn't make it better in every case.

Since you brought up Trophy Trucks and I've been around them a bit having raced in Baja.....you are correct that they run IFS. For truly competitive high speeds, there is no question that IFS is superior. Solid axle vehicles in Baja have zero chance of keeping up with IFS trophy trucks, regardless of how good their shocks are. But we're not talking about desert racing. We're talking about the type of offroading that is common among people on this forum. In that world, IFS is great but will NOT ALWAYS outperform a solid axle purely because it is IS.

The offer still stands, even though I know you wont take me up on it. Come go for a drive.

You're right, I won't take you up on it because I'm quite literally on the opposite side of the country. However, if I'm ever that far west then I have no problem going for a spirited drive with you. The LR3 is on 35" and is surprisingly capable...biggest downside is the extensive armor which weighs it down (and that it has 172k on the odometer and I'm certain I'll break something).

 

[Pilat]

Oh my hell! Are you for real? I have no doubt that you feel like everyone is a waste of your time. You are the most pointless person to try to have a discussion with. And resorting to name calling and insults just shows the lack of depth in your intelligence and maturity. Continue fighting your keyboard battles to feel good about your existence. This thread deserves to be locked just to keep you from saying anything else.

You still haven't answered my question. Instead you try to have a bro off, and if I don't oblige, you will somehow have made your point (in your own mind).

How do you solve the problems caused by the wheels being connected?

 

[mpinco]

And yet here a number of people claiming to be its core customer base are trying to say Old Defender is Best Defender. But no one was buying it, even in the countries where it was still on sale.

Now, they have invested in the Defender and made it better, and those "core customers" say they should have left it alone.

For the Defender target market, which was utility and rural, the older design does meet more of the requirements. LR overtly made the decision to move the Defender brand upmarket, to more urban/luxury. Those criticizing the new Defender likely believe that it is a better "Discovery" than the Discovery 5.

 

[Box Rocket]

I dare you to challenge my stock H1 with 4 wheel independent suspension.

If you are near any state close to California let’s run for $$$ you chose the Offroad course.
I bet you independent suspension on the H1 will make you think twice on the solid axle superiority.
The vehicle that wins the change is the vehicle that has the most traction aid, regardless solid axle or IFS
That’s an old nonsense that SOLID is better.

The only advantage of sold axle is less moving parts,
Disadvantage is, you will roll over immediately at 40mph sharp turn,
independent suspension vehicle will not.

who has the guts? PM me.

I'm game. Happy to look you up when I'm in Cali. Feel free to do the same if you're in Utah.
But lets compare apples to apples. Talking about rolling in corners....I'm sure you know that part of what makes the H1 so stable is it's width. A wider vehicle will always be more stable than a narrower one. The H1 is a cool vehicle in many ways. It does lean on it's traction aids a lot because it doesn't have a lot of suspension travel. The other downside is its size depending on where you go with it. But when we've raced in Baja in a Land Cruiser, one of our direct competitors was an H1 Hummer and it was impressive.

The Land Cruiser
IMG_4038 by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

The H1
H1RHall by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

 

[Pilat]

For the Defender target market, which was utility and rural, the older design does meet more of the requirements. LR overtly made the decision to move the Defender brand upmarket, to more urban/luxury. Those criticizing the new Defender likely believe that it is a better "Discovery" than the Discovery 5.

And before they "moved upmarket", just how many did they sell of them to private hands?

 

[Pilat]

Baja. That explains a lot. Precision and control is accidental, lol.

 

[Box Rocket]

You still haven't answered my question. Instead you try to have a bro off, and if I don't oblige, you will somehow have made your point (in your own mind).

How do you solve the problems caused by the wheels being connected?

Yeah I did. I'm done with you.

You're right, I won't take you up on it because I'm quite literally on the opposite side of the country. However, if I'm ever that far west then I have no problem going for a spirited drive with you. The LR3 is on 35" and is surprisingly capable...biggest downside is the extensive armor which weighs it down (and that it has 172k on the odometer and I'm certain I'll break something).

Mine has a lot of armor and lots of weight too. I'm at 280K miles. No worries.

 

[Box Rocket]

Baja. That explains a lot. Precision and control is accidental, lol.

LOL, you're an idiot and you're in the wrong forum. Go hang with the ricers.

 

[Pilat]

Yeah I did. I'm done with you.

No you didn't. Not even close. But of course you have to pretend you answered, because it is actually impossible for you to answer that even if it would prove you right.


The problems (among others) is that they're rigidly connected, so if one wheel reacts, the other is jolted. You did not answer this. The other main problem is the much higher unsprung weight. You didn't answer this either.

So I ask again: How do you solve the problems caused by the wheels being connected?

 

[mpinco]

And before they "moved upmarket", just how many did they sell of them to private hands?

That's already been discussed. The 35 year old design with zero investment sold at very low rates. How many manufacturers tried to off a 35 year old design in 2016?

The DI with Defender chassis, suspension, powertrain, etc has outsold the LR3, LR4 and D5. If LR had invested in the Defender the sales volumes would probably be as good as the D5 or better.