New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[mpinco]

Here is what I expect "base camp" (the travel trailer) AND the tow vehicle to support.

Montana by Land Rover
Paul J. Driscoll / June 19th, 2020
https://expeditionportal.com/montana-by-land-rover/
Yes, I'll be gone for weeks at a time and virtually living full time out of the camper. Stop at a full hookup site roughly every 4 to 7 days for supplies and clean-up.

 

[JeepColorado]

As long as my Defender can both drive off-road AND haul dead sheep in the back, I don't see why anyone would dare to think about using it for anything else

As long as my Defender rides better on the asphalt I don't care that it's less capable, more unreliable, has less aftermarket support, costs more, and is an almost total departure from the very things that made it an icon in the first place- it rides better and LR says it's a Defender, so it's a Defender!

 

[soflorovers]

As long as my Defender rides better on the asphalt I don't care that it's less capable, more unreliable, has less aftermarket support, costs more, and is an almost total departure from the very things that made it an icon in the first place- it rides better and LR says it's a Defender, so it's a Defender!

I'm sure there were people just like you when LR transitioned from the Series III to the 110. Literally every single thing you typed above could be said for the Series III v. 110. In fact, if you bothered to know your LR history, you'd know that the 1982 update for the Series III basically revitalized sales of that vehicle by making it far more desirable for the average owner - See introduction of County spec. Much like the Series III, the 110 saw drastic increases in sales when they started offering that in a County spec and also began offering the V8. God, I can only imagine what early-1980's version of you would've sounded like: "I don't care that the Defender is better on road! It doesn't have leaf springs that I can forge over a fire in the middle of a field! How dare they change the nose?!?!? I liked the Series nose!" It's almost as if you have no idea what made these vehicles icons in the first place.

EDIT: Here's a brief model lineage recap so you can see for yourself just how much the model has evolved over the years. If you're one of the people that genuinely believes that the Defender began life in 1948, then I'd argue a 2020 Defender is closer to the 110 in terms of "ethos" than a Series 1 v. 110 comparison. Come to think of it, 35 years passed from the introduction of the Series 1 to the introduction of the 110 in 1983. Since the introduction of the 110 to the current 2020 Defender, 37 years have passed. So tell me again...why do you want Land Rover to make a 40 year old car again? Sheesh. I'm really glad the staff at LR doesn't listen to the dinosaurs. We'd all still have leaf-sprung tractors with N.A. diesel motors attached to non-synchronized transmissions without air conditioning or radios.

Land Rover: From Series I to the Defender

A quick visual guide to all generations of the quintessential British 4x4

www.autoweek.com

 

[JeepColorado]

I'm sure there were people just like you when LR transitioned from the Series III to the 110. Literally every single thing you typed above could be said for the Series III v. 110. In fact, if you bothered to know your LR history, you'd know that the 1982 update for the Series III basically revitalized sales of that vehicle by making it far more desirable for the average owner - See introduction of County spec. Much like the Series III, the 110 saw drastic increases in sales when they started offering that in a County spec and also began offering the V8. God, I can only imagine what early-1980's version of you would've sounded like: "I don't care that the Defender is better on road! It doesn't have leaf springs that I can forge over a fire in the middle of a field! How dare they change the nose?!?!? I liked the Series nose!" It's almost as if you have no idea what made these vehicles icons in the first place.

EDIT: Here's a brief model lineage recap so you can see for yourself just how much the model has evolved over the years. If you're one of the people that genuinely believes that the Defender began life in 1948, then I'd argue a 2020 Defender is closer to the 110 in terms of "ethos" than a Series 1 v. 110 comparison. Come to think of it, 35 years passed from the introduction of the Series 1 to the introduction of the 110 in 1983. Since the introduction of the 110 to the current 2020 Defender, 37 years have passed. So tell me again...why do you want Land Rover to make a 40 year old car again? Sheesh. I'm really glad the staff at LR doesn't listen to the dinosaurs. We'd all still have leaf-sprung tractors with N.A. diesel motors attached to non-synchronized transmissions without air conditioning or radios.

Land Rover: From Series I to the Defender

A quick visual guide to all generations of the quintessential British 4x4

www.autoweek.com

You are setting up a false dichotomy- I don't have to choose between old-war wagons and a modern luxury sedan with a lift kit- the vehicles below are modern, comfortable, powerful and safe- I don't even have to imagine what that vehicle could be- they already exist-

If I want more luxury

If I want more capability



If I want more modern heritage- although it's kind of a tie with the Wrangler in this regard-



If I want pure Overland Glory-




LR was shown the way by MB and Jeep and still just keeps going for the Los Angeles Instagram Art People - the Bronco and Grenadier have now come along and is showing them how wrong they were


But, hey, I bet the Defender will give a plush & luxurious ride like a champ to little Timmy's T-Ball practice

 

[Todd780]

Bump for 200...

I'm sure there were people just like you when LR transitioned from the Series III to the 110. Literally every single thing you typed above could be said for the Series III v. 110.

Land Rover: From Series I to the Defender

A quick visual guide to all generations of the quintessential British 4x4

www.autoweek.com

I don't know... using the pics from the article you posted, the series III to Defender comparison seems a lot closer than the Defender to new Defender:




The article stated most of the body components from the series III were used on the Original Defender.


'Most of the body panels carried over from the outgoing version, now with added wheel arch extensions for a wider track, but underneath the skin, major changes included a plusher interior, yet again, along with a one-piece windshield in contrast to the two-piece of the Series III and coil springs to give the suspension more modern ride characteristics. '

 

[Carson G]

Bump for 200...


I don't know... using the pics from the article you posted, the series III to Defender comparison seems a lot closer than the Defender to new Defender:
View attachment 601905
View attachment 601906
View attachment 601907

The article stated most of the body components from the series III were used on the Original Defender.


'Most of the body panels carried over from the outgoing version, now with added wheel arch extensions for a wider track, but underneath the skin, major changes included a plusher interior, yet again, along with a one-piece windshield in contrast to the two-piece of the Series III and coil springs to give the suspension more modern ride characteristics. '

I think he meant ride quality wise between the S3 and Def. Then looks wise between the S1 and Def.

 

[Blaise]

You are setting up a false dichotomy- I don't have to choose between old-war wagons and a modern luxury sedan with a lift kit- the vehicles below are modern, comfortable, powerful and safe- I don't even have to imagine what that vehicle could be- they already exist-

If I want more luxury

If I want more capability
View attachment 601898


If I want more modern heritage- although it's kind of a tie with the Wrangler in this regard-
View attachment 601899


If I want pure Overland Glory-
View attachment 601900



LR was shown the way by MB and Jeep and still just keeps going for the Los Angeles Instagram Art People - the Bronco and Grenadier have now come along and is showing them how wrong they were


But, hey, I bet the Defender will give a plush & luxurious ride like a champ to little Timmy's T-Ball practice

You're OK with a $100k+ MB
You're OK with a hardcore off-road (and terrible on-road) Jeep
You're OK with a vehicle that's not available for purchase yet
You're OK with a vehicle that's in conceptual phase and will likely never be sold in the US.

But the vehicle that rides as well as the MB, is 1/2 the price and still can go anywhere? Nah, not ok. Why? BECAUSE I'M UPSET ABOUT THE LOOKS.

 

[JeepColorado]

You're OK with a $100k+ MB
You're OK with a hardcore off-road (and terrible on-road) Jeep
You're OK with a vehicle that's not available for purchase yet
You're OK with a vehicle that's in conceptual phase and will likely never be sold in the US.

But the vehicle that rides as well as the MB, is 1/2 the price and still can go anywhere? Nah, not ok. Why? BECAUSE I'M UPSET ABOUT THE LOOKS.

- I'm OK with the fact that the Benz has much better reliability than the LR
- I'm OK with the fact that the Jeep JLU rides substantially better on the road than previous Jeeps- I have no idea if you've driven one, but basically every review raves about how much better it is. And again, while I don't want to ride in a wagon cart- I don't need to be in the absolutely most plush vehicle I can possibly drive. If I did, I probably wouldn't be into adventurous hobbies/lifestyle in the first place.
- I'm OK with what the Bronco appears to be thus far on paper, in videos, and based on my experience with Ford products- yes, I've yet to drive it, but if it lives up to Ford's history with it's Raptors etc...- It'll be a great vehicle. If the Defender lives up to LR's history- what will it be? ...unreliable
- I'm OK with the design direction Ineos took- how they captured the spirit of an African Adventure and not the spirit of an Art Gallery


The looks aren't my only objection- there's almost 200 pages on here about capability and reliability

 

[Corgi_express]

I HATE GERRY BECAUSE HE PUTS FORM OVER FUNCTION

goes on to spend 200 pages complaining about the form and making repeated errors about the function and backpedaling and ignoring reality when called out on it.

 

[Blaise]

Expedition Portal Admin: "We drove the new Defender in Tanzania, the ride quality was better off road than anything we've ever tested"

People on Expo: 'I bet the Defender will give a plush & luxurious ride like a champ to little Timmy's T-Ball practice'

I wonder if these same folks walk into restaurants that they don't like (but others do) and cuss at the customers and staff. WHY WOULD YOU EAT HERE, YOU COULD HAVE EATEN AT ANY OTHER RESTAURANTS WHICH STAYED TRUE TO THEIR ROOTS!!!!

 

[JeepColorado]

I HATE GERRY BECAUSE HE PUTS FORM OVER FUNCTION

goes on to spend 200 pages complaining about the form and making repeated errors about the function and backpedaling and ignoring reality when called out on it.

Other than the 1 time I misremembered an article I read and said that the Defender's in Namibia had larger tires than stock, please enlighten me as to the actual facts about the function of the Defender you've corrected me on. I'd love for you to contribute actual facts to the conversation or at the very least- reasonable opinions based on facts. You just keep talking about me and not the facts or the observations I make based on those facts.

Although I do have to admit Corgi I'm proud to see that after almost 200 pages you've evolved to the point where you can post and not tell me to shut up or put the word "troll" in it. Very proud of you!

 

[DieselRanger]

Bump for 200...


I don't know... using the pics from the article you posted, the series III to Defender comparison seems a lot closer than the Defender to new Defender:
View attachment 601905
View attachment 601906
View attachment 601907

The article stated most of the body components from the series III were used on the Original Defender.


'Most of the body panels carried over from the outgoing version, now with added wheel arch extensions for a wider track, but underneath the skin, major changes included a plusher interior, yet again, along with a one-piece windshield in contrast to the two-piece of the Series III and coil springs to give the suspension more modern ride characteristics. '

That was literally because they couldn't afford more expensive pressing machines, and it was cheap and easy to press rectangles and curves on perpendicular faces.

 

[JeepColorado]

Expedition Portal Admin: "We drove the new Defender in Tanzania, the ride quality was better off road than anything we've ever tested"

People on Expo: 'I bet the Defender will give a plush & luxurious ride like a champ to little Timmy's T-Ball practice'

I wonder if these same folks walk into restaurants that they don't like (but others do) and cuss at the customers and staff. WHY WOULD YOU EAT HERE, YOU COULD HAVE EATEN AT ANY OTHER RESTAURANTS WHICH STAYED TRUE TO THEIR ROOTS!!!!

No, but if I was really into food I would go to a food-based enthusiast community and if there was a thread dedicated specifically to complaining about that particular restaurant I'd add a comment.

You do understand Blaise that you choose to come to ExPo- then you choose to come to this specific thread? ..you get that right?

The equivalent of your restaurant analogy would be me going to a LR dealer and telling people they shouldn't buy it- No one here is doing that- (that I'm aware of)

You are on an enthusiast forum complaining that enthusiast are talking about a vehicle in the thread specifically designated for that very discussion. I agree, it's truly shocking that in the Defender Hate/Rage forum there are people who hold a negative opinion of the Defender and have the nerve to express it. I wonder what they are talking about in the Defender News forum- it better not be news about the Defender or else I'm going over there and asking them how dare they do such a thing!

 

[JeepColorado]

18 Month Wait for Bronco- demand is overwhelming Ford

Insiders say they've taken over 200,000 reservations thus far, but I'm sure they should have just watered it down and regurgitated the Ford Everest- there's just No Market for an enthusiast-driven 4x4

Ford Bronco reportedly faces 18-month waitlist

Overwhelming response to Ford's new Jeep Wrangler fighter means it's going to take a long time to take delivery, but the SUV's production remains on schedule.

www.cnet.com

 

[mpinco]

18 Month Wait for Bronco- demand is overwhelming Ford

Insiders say they've taken over 200,000 reservations thus far ......

Wow. That's going to put a dent in everyone else's demand models.