New Rubicon or Sport and modify?

[jam]

I've sold my Sportsmobile and looking to get a 2012 Rubicon (with 6-speed and options I want, 29k about $2,742 less than Edmunds fair market value). I don't want to do hard core rock stuff (toughest example would be Elephant Hill in Canyonlands NP which we did in a 4x4 long bed Sportsmobile E350). Seems like the SWB Rubicon would work fine for this (my wife isn't going to do expedition travel with me, so not planning to get the JKU).

Two questions: 1) Should I get a Rubicon or just save 7k and do aftermarket mods to a sport. 2) If I do aftermarket mods, like to hear what would be recommended to replicate functionality of a Rubicon for 7k or less.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

 

[jam]

I found this informative thread: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/2012-sport-or-rubicon-106900.html Covers my questions. Going with Rubicon, hopefully 6-speed won't be an issue.

 

[Vector OffRoad]

You can easily do elephant hill without a Rubicon so use the money for overland mods. I suggest a 4 door even if you don't need the doors.

 

[Espo78]

For overland I would absolutely go with a 4 door. If you don't plan on crawling rocks, you don't even need a Rubicon in my opinion. I'm sure you know the differences between the sport and the rubicon so you need to figure out if those differences are worth 7k dollars to you. Your personal financial situation will come into play as well. Financing or paying cash? If paying cash I would buy a sport and use the savings to install a used D44 front axle housing and ARB lockers front and rear if you deem it necessary for your travels. If you are financing and paying for all the labor for mods then the Rubicon might make more sense. Jeeps are very cabable out of the box. Most people tend to over modify them without knowing the true capabilities in stock form.

 

[mizedog]

No rock crawling, no Rubicon

I'm leaning toward the Sport. I've owned a '91 Trooper on 32s, full sized Dodge 1/2 ton pickup, a fully locked CJ-7 on full width Chevy axles set up for rock crawling, a '08 JK Unlimited Sport w/ a 2.5" BB, and now back to a '01 Cherokee on 33's w/ one rear ARB locker. There really is a difference between rock crawling locked up with a 4:1 transfer case where you're front tires have to crawl up vertical rock ledges 4 feet tall vs a "trail run", or exploration run. The former is all about driving ability where scenery is a slightly noticed bonus and damage is more likely the center of attention. The latter is about the discovery process and overcoming some obstacles with the prize being successfully experiencing the scenery and unknown.

I only took my '08 JK Sport on a couple trips in the Colorado mountains. We did no real rock crawling but I was impressed at the traction control's performance - even with stock tires. For driving dirt roads with a few basket ball sized rocks, the Sport will do just fine. However, you WILL and I mean that emphatically, need to replace the weak stock shocks and springs. The stock set up bottoms out continually and it starts with immediate shock fade.

One other point to consider. The Rubi's 4:1 transfer case is a gem, but you better be the tail gunner in a large group as the crawl ratio will have you lagging behind the other rigs if they have more sain crawl ratios (this assumes the Toyotas in your group are running dual cases). The 6 speed manual's first gear is surprisingly low anyway.

Also, the perception is the JK is much larger than the TJs and XJs, but that's mostly the external demensons. I'm more comfortable in my XJ than I was in the JK. I've taken my CJ-7 and my 1/2 Dodge on the full Mohave Road (about 130 miles). I was alot more comfortable in the Dodge and loved the extra room for goodies. The CJ wasn't even remotely challenged by the terrain and did the deepest sand by the lava tubes in 4hi. It was challenged when trying to keep up with longer wheelbase rigs at higher speeds on the dirt roads as it loved to fish tail. Oh, I also had no passenger seat in the CJ to make extra room.

I'd get the Sport, then spend your savings on real springs and shocks, and maybe (maybe) a new front axle. Gears are a given though. If you're going to "graduate" to technical rock crawling where you really need the 4:1, then go used Rubi, and upgrade. If you stay below 35 inch tires, the Dana 30 will be fine.

One last thing. If you're a tall person - beware of the older JK's center dash board. They stick out and will beat your right knee to a pulp. Also, get power windows!! The manual crank handle will beat your left knee silly. I haven't seen a '12 but hope Fiat fixed this design flaw.

Happy hunting.

 

[Septu]

One other point to consider. The Rubi's 4:1 transfer case is a gem, but you better be the tail gunner in a large group as the crawl ratio will have you lagging behind the other rigs if they have more sain crawl ratios (this assumes the Toyotas in your group are running dual cases). The 6 speed manual's first gear is surprisingly low anyway.

Went from a Sport to the Rubi. One thing I'm frustrated with is the 4lo ratio. 4:1 is LOW! I haven't done the locker mod yet, so if I want my lockers (usually don't need them), I have to go to 4lo. Once I do the locker mod, I doubt I'll spend much time (if any) in 4lo.

My 07X only had a 2.5" BB, 33's and a winch. The winch saved my ***, but that was almost entirely driver error. When I did a trail ride with a bunch of Rubi's last summer, I had no issues keeping up. I got stuck once where the Rubi's had made it through, and another time lockers likely would have prevented it. The 3rd time I buried it in the snow and nothing would have made a difference. My point being is that a Sport with a modest lift and some decent tires can turn it into a very capable jeep.

If you can afford to do some mods right away, then a Sport isn't a bad idea. However if after buying it you're going to have to wait a while to start the mods, then perhaps think about the Rubi. You can't really go wrong either way.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

I'll be the odd man out for you. The Rubicon has stronger axles and the lockers are nice if/when you need them. As far as 4lo being to low I never found it to be a problem with mine it has a 6 speed tranny the extra low gearing in first is great when you get into a tight spot or need the extra engine braking. The only thing better is 3 speed transfer case that gives you both options. I lived in Dahlonega, GA for the most part while I had mine so it had seen all kinds of mud and rocks. Here's a shot of it at Tellico OHV in NC before it was closed
;(

Get the Rubicon (it'll even have better resale value)

 

[Rovertrader]

We have a JKU, and AEV lift. However, last week we rented a stock JK 2 door for a long w/e at Expo. My wife immediately ask why the rental rode so bad, and why the window crank hit right on her knee(we have the p/w). Also, at 6'3" I can certainly attest to the new dash as a huge improvement over my '07.
We also elected to go Sahara as we upgraded the suspension and wanted mechanical lockers to avoid the potential failures of solenoids, etc, and cannot be happier- both wheeling and exploring!! I did reinforce the front axle/C's, as I hate to break and believe in the Boyscout motto!!
Lastly, the extra room of the JKU and much better ride never seem to limit it's nimbleness, and we are east coast with tight trails.

 

[Bennyhana]

With my Rubi on some trail rides I actually like running in 4lo. I just put it in 4th gear and almost drive it like an automatic. You can start off from a stop in 4th gear just fine with the 4:1. I can get up to 15-20 mph no problem without maxing out the revs. My only annoying complaint about the Rubi's is the 18mph auto reconnect of the sway bar. It seems that most trail runs I've been on usually average 20mph and then slow for obstacle....

 

[haven]

It's possible to bring a Sport up to Rubicon standards, but not for $7K. And unless you buy the pieces from Mopar and have a dealer install them, you'll lose your factory warranty in the process. If you like spending your evenings thinking about modifying your vehicle, then get the Sport. If you want to jump in and go, get the Rubicon.

 

[brianjwilson]

I also thought about a cheaper sport, then buying a prorock d44 for the front and going ahead with other mods. I plan to lift and re-gear anyway. But I just sold my second truck that I had modified, re-geared, locked front and read, and it is extremely difficult to get much money back for any of that stuff. So one nice thing is that the rubicon will have better resale. You're starting out with a better platform, stronger axle, LOW range, factory lockers, decent tires, etc.
After spending the last few days with the rubicon, I could actually probably stand to leave it mostly stock for a while (but what fun is that?). I suppose if you bought the sport with 4.10 gears, you could run a 2" lift and 33" tires, add front and rear lockers, beef up the front axle, run anti-rock swaybars and you'd be fairly close. But you still have a weaker front axle and miss out on the low range that the rubicon has.
For what it's worth, having four doors is really nice, even if you don't need it. I don't think I would have ever bought a wrangler if they hadn't started making the unlimited.

 

[Espo78]

Well the 4.10 is no longer an option on the sport so that is another thing to consider.

For all you guys saying the rubIcon has better resale value I think that is incorrect. It's a niche vehicle and most people don't need or want the extra off road stuff. Price out used sports and used rubi's and you will see that the sports stay closer to the new price while the rubi drops down to only 2-3 grand more than a sport.

 

[srileo]

Great thread! Am in the same quandry. Currently own a TJ and looking to get a new JKU only because of the pentastar - else i would have preferred a nicer '08 onwards.
Anyway, my mission is simply scenic overlanding with the wife, no rockcrawling (not until i get my money's worth from the overlanding). Wife and i love the Rubi in the khaki color but am finding the $40k price a bit hard to swallow. Likely will go with the base Sport and use the $7k savings for minor armor and camping luxuries. As i learn more about overlanding, am sure i can justify and future mods i need to make for particular trips.

 

[haven]

Compared to the short wheelbase Wrangler Sport, the Rubicon costs $7900 more.
The extra cash adds the following. Did I miss anything?

Dana 44 axles front and rear
electric locking diffs front and rear
electric sway bar disconnects
4:1 low range in transfer case
4:10 gears in the differentials
32 spline rear axle shafts
"performance" suspension
32 inch tall BF Goodrich MT tires
17 inch alloy rims
sill guards
three skid plates

power window lifts
premium stereo w/ satellite radio
cruise control
air conditioning

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

All the stuff Haven mentioned makes it better for Overlanding as well as anything else off pavement. If Overlanding is your goal I'd really suggest the JKU it's easy to run out of space fast in a small vehicle. Don't see Rubicon and think its a purpose built rock crawler. Just remember its easier and cheaper to buy the right vehicle the first time, than to get one setup like you want only to find it doesn't offer everything you need. FWIW I was looking at the JKUR but in the end I bought an 04 Discovery because it fit our needs better, now I Love it, and so does the Family.