New trucks and 4low...

[shade]

No bash on electric it's just necessary to run the numbers once in a while to make sure we're staying in the real world. Like was said before, off grid travelers are the last group that can expect to be electrified given anything humanity knows about the technology.

No doubt.

The future is hard to predict, but no amount of handwaving will make long distance offroad EVs magically happen. My guess is that the first viable efforts will be made by people carrying extra battery packs and/or a generator & fuel on a trailer. Someone will do it, or maybe they already have.

 

[shade]

There are battery swapping systems being developed, as you probably know.

The biggest problem I see for EVs isn't about range or cost; it's about getting clean power to them. If they're being powered by coal fired power plants, the whole Green scheme starts falling apart.

 

[shade]

Thankfully we can do both - meaning, pursue EV improvements and fuel improvements - but one positive side effect of recognizing that biofuels are short cycle solar energy is that a switch to biofuel retroactively converts all of the equipment already in service. It's a bit of an oversimplification in some ways but it in broad terms it checks out.

You start running your Old Trusty on corn sauce or algae pee and now it's not pulling carbon out of the ground and putting it in the atmosphere anymore. And nobody has to make a new vehicle for you out of raw materials nor ship it halfway around the world to you in a freight ship burning #6 oil.

There's still a long way to go on improving biofuels tech but where that differs from EV is... there's still a long way we can go. We're not anywhere near maximum theoretical efficiency on the production side. Plus we already have all the infrastructure we need to store, distribute, sell and burn it - all that equipment's been manufactured already.

Unfortunately algae pee itself does not have 4L but it does have H6

Sure! Innovation can occur on many fronts. I have a friend working on algae production equipment. Interesting way to harvest sunlight in a way that's easy to store.

 

[vintageracer]

We Cave Man & Cave Women are at a new 4Low!

 

[rho]

We Cave Man & Cave Women are at a new 4Low!

At this point I'm just sitting back with a bucket of popcorn laughing.

 

[Christian P.]

I have cleaned up some personal insults and inappropriate language from this thread. @Davidl13 and @shade - this is directed at you especially.

 

[tim87tr]

When I bought my wrangler it was HARD to find one with no options, as it is I'm still super happy with the no-frills it has. Soft top, six speed manual, crank windows and manual locks, simple radio and AC. I wish it didn't come with carpet or had vinyl/rubber carpet tho. As it is I bedlined the tub in it and thats been about perfect.

Agree. Ordered my first new vehicle in Fall 13, a 14 half door Rubicon. No packages so half door and 6 speed is standard, with block heater, tinted rear windows and hitch. Most fun vehicle we've ever owned on and off-road.

 

[billiebob]

All you have to do is get up to speed and set the cruise. Truck does the rest.

so why drive ???????????

 

[billiebob]

is also far better off road than a manual.

Not if you love to drive.
I find a manual natural. An automatic? I'm always trying to figure out how to get it to do what it should do. Switches, Tow/Haul modes, lockouts.... cruise control.... those are for people who don't enjoy the simple pleasure of driving.

A clutch lets you do all of that without thought.

or maybe forget the clutch..

 

[billiebob]

But talking expeditions, overlanding ???

I've owned 40 vehicles, 6 had automatics, 3 of those died and left me stranded. I have never been stranded with a standard. Why take the risk if you are leaving civilization behind.

The reason there are no standards made today is due to computers controlling the rpm, shifting to deliver better economy and lower emissions. I can't argue with that logic, but I'll never buy a new automatic. I will buy an electric off roader if/when they come out.... but I'm now committed to used trucks. I really miss carburetors too.

 

[F350joe]

Interesting thread, not what I expected when I clicked on it.

I want to point out that here in America you are never more than 50 miles or so from the grid. There are no gas stations where we go but if there is, there is also electricity. I have been all over the California deserts, Utah, Baja, etc for a few decades now and can’t think of a single time I have had to use a jerry can. I bring one, sometimes, but plan my trips accordingly. Also, when you are going slow in an iC in 4wd your mileage is pretty bad. With electric motors going slow means more range. A smart ev 4x4 with gps could ensure you don’t paint yourself into a corner so to speak.

 

[shade]

Interesting thread, not what I expected when I clicked on it.

I want to point out that here in America you are never more than 50 miles or so from the grid. There are no gas stations where we go but if there is, there is also electricity. I have been all over the California deserts, Utah, Baja, etc for a few decades now and can’t think of a single time I have had to use a jerry can. I bring one, sometimes, but plan my trips accordingly. Also, when you are going slow in an iC in 4wd your mileage is pretty bad. With electric motors going slow means more range. A smart ev 4x4 with gps could ensure you don’t paint yourself into a corner so to speak.

Good points. Who needs 4Low when you don't even need a transmission, and there's maximum torque at 0 rpms?

There are some routes in the Southwest that can require more range than a truck can provide without supplemental fuel, but you have to seek them out, and they're the exception. Widening the scope to Canada & Alaska, there are great swaths of awesomeness - but little infrastructure. AFAIK, Tesla is ahead of everyone with their Supercharger network, but it's just for their vehicles, and it's far from everywhere. I wonder if Elon dreams of running the next Standard Oil.

One place I can see offroad EVs taking hold would be smaller vehicles that are used infrequently enough that they could recharge via wind & solar at a remote location. No need to fly in fuel, and a basic EV could be more reliable than a ICE powered version. Something like that might work well in many places around the world.

 

[F350joe]

Good points. Who needs 4Low when you don't even need a transmission, and there's maximum torque at 0 rpms?

There are some routes in the Southwest that can require more range than a truck can provide without supplemental fuel, but you have to seek them out, and they're the exception. Widening the scope to Canada & Alaska, there are great swaths of awesomeness - but little infrastructure. AFAIK, Tesla is ahead of everyone with their Supercharger network, but it's just for their vehicles, and it's far from everywhere. I wonder if Elon dreams of running the next Standard Oil.

One place I can see offroad EVs taking hold would be smaller vehicles that are used infrequently enough that they could recharge via wind & solar at a remote location. No need to fly in fuel, and a basic EV could be more reliable than a ICE powered version. Something like that might work well in many places around the world.

If batteries could be easily swapped out one could have an Uber like delivery system or even drop points for back packers. Or just rent an extra battery pack and throw it in the bed, Rivian mentioned something along those lines. Sounds like the hybrid f150 will be more of a generator with a large battery pack. That would be a cool system, imo, get the torque and reliability of electric motors and a onboard generator to make juice.

 

[shade]

Do you know about any good EV's though? I mean like the Benz EQC or Volvo XC40 .... SUVs made by real companies not some libelous charlatan who had to sue for fake rights to call himself "founder" of a company who hired him after they already existed.

I don't know about "good", but you just named two. Others are being developed by what I assume are less-charlatanistic companies.

Then there's stuff like this.

 

[Buddha.]

When 80 is legal and normal in those places it also means that if you're towing you should attempt to stay close to that,

Many trailer tires are rated for 65mph.