Newbie - Mack Trucks

[AATA]

Much over 28' the angles become difficult. You wouldn't have a 40K lb truck at 28'.
Few 6x6 expo campers have been built. There's a reason the photos come from the desert. When you start to look at he actual math of an offroad capable line-in camper few people conclude that a 35' 40K lb vehicle is the way to go.
For 2 people I think about a 17-18' cabin is about the "sweet spot". 16' works but is a bit short on stoarge in a unicat design. Many people have certainly done fine with less.
The toater home thing is great too. But no one ships those vehicles to other continents or drives off road.

That's a good point about the desert pictures. That's probably what drew me to the 6x6 in the first place. As I think I mentioned in the first post, we spend a lot of time in the local desert and always camp away from the crowds. Having a vehicle that can travel through sand is important for our needs. I would need a vehicle that can travel through sand with confidence. Getting something this size out of the dunes won't be fun!

I have also seen some 6x6 vehicles on youtube do some crazy things that I never imagined could be possible.

Hell, the toterhome we had fell apart on-road! I won't name the company, but I would never buy one again.

 

[LukeH]

Hi there*;
What a shame the various import regulations, market protectionism and local manufacturer’s perception of the market combine so you just can’t find the base vehicle you need.

On the bright side of that, as far as I can see, in the US you have considerably more freedom to modify a vehicle to suit individual needs. THAT’s the difficult part here in Europe, particularly in France; all modifications – wheel size, spring rate, power, gearing, payload type, seating capacity etc. etc.- Has to be approved by at least three entities, one of whom is in the civil service, and none of whom are in the slightest bit inclined to help you (the concept of customer service in big establishments has a long way to go).

So its swings and roundabouts.


Now, your Mack; my experience of trucks designed for local traffic is that they’re very often lower powered, and almost invariably geared short. You don’t need 500hp and a cruising
seed of 100km/h to do the 50 metre sprint between rubbish bins. The final drive ratiis chosen for more torque, to enable a smaller engine to be used in low speed start stop situations.
So if I read right you’re prepared to change all the axles and throw in a transfer case.
All perfectly possible, the ladder chassis makes this particularly easy even, but it’s a lot of work. IMHO the end result will look the business, but will it do the business? Judging by the level of the discussion you’re even happy with an entire power train change, so I guess if you throw enough cash at it, it will do the business.
My question is do you really want to spend long hours cruising whether on or off road in a cab that is specifically designed for short distance get in get out start stop use? As mentioned there’s less perceived need for soundproofing, the seats will probably be harder, more basic and without armrests, the cab interior design will miss out on lots of the things that you’ll find in long distance cabs.
And remember, these cabs are designed to be used by employees, bin men, council workers etc. who don’t necessarily take as much care as someone who has to spend hours and hours in the same cab. Now I don’t want to start a fight here, but the general designer’s opinion of that “category” of worker is not the same as their opinion of owner drivers and long distance fleet operators. Make sure you get the luxury version, it’ll probably still be more basic than your DD


I’m completely sold on forward cab layouts because of the camper length it gives, I have one.
But the ride is different; sitting on or in front of the front axle you go up and down a lot more than you expect. It’s not for everyone, some people can’t cope with the rather vertiginous position, and prefer being behind the axle, with a few meters of hood in front of them. Remember you have nothing but a piece of glass between you and the next truck/obstacle. Have you driven one? By driven I mean spent a day or even more pottering around and even doing some nice steep slopes.
It might be worth checking that out before committing yourself.



To answer Dan, I don’t think size is an issue. It’s more a matter of risk versus consequences. I’ve seen people take huge trucks where others wouldn’t take a jeep. Everyone chooses the size of their camper as a function of their needs; if their choice then prevents them from going a given place, tough. It was their decision.


It can go the other way too: my 14 tonne 4x4 is going to be merrily capable of taking on over 1000 litres of diesel and as much water, enabling it to penetrate unsupported well beyond the range of a land rover, and enabling me to pick and chose where I fill up, preserving my filters and maybe even saving some money by pressing on to where fuel is cheaper (it’s always more expensive in the middle of nowhere)
As I’ve said before, I personally can no longer imagine owning a camper in which I couldn’t take a shower or go to the toilet in peace. That immediately dictates a minimum size for me.
One thing I have discovered is that going from 235/85/16 on a normal 4x4 to 365/85/20 on my truck made a whole ton of places MORE accessible, regardless of horsepower, increased weight and length.


Gosh that ended up longer than I expected. Thanks for your patience.
Luke

 

[TheRammstein]

I feel the need to step in here, I am a Lead mechanic for a garbage company. You are on the right track to use a garbage truck.
First of all, you would want to get a front loader model used for picking up comercial dumpsters. These trucks are more like normal cabover trucks, as they have only left hand drive and a normal seat in the right side.
Secondly I would look for a used truck being auctioned off by a city or county, not a company. Cities and counties tend to get rid of the trucks with lower miles and in much better shape than companies that care about profit.
Thirdly you need a pre 2010 emitions truck and preferably pre 2007 as the new engines are proving to be unreliable.

As for the power and the ride, they have plenty of power, will go 70+ MPH, and are limited by traction as to what they can climb. you would want to remove spring leafs to lighten the ride, and the auto like the 4500hd will do you for ever.

I came from a construction company with all manual transmitions, when I started working on garbage trucks I thought "autos are for buses not trucks"

I was so wrong, in five years I have seen and put these autos through stuff that a "roadranger" (manual) could not take.

 

[AATA]

Thank you Luke and Rammstein for the replies. I love the wide range of knowledge and experience on this site! great stuff!

I'm not sure what the trash trucks are like in France but ours are massive with 1000 ft lbs + and built to drive on landfills, construction sites, etc. They are some of the heaviest trucks around that are still capably to be driven down the road. I actually saw a UPS truck with a similar chassis towing a semi trailer yesterday.

With that said, you have some very valid points about comfort, which is one of the major things I'm trying to figure out and most concerned about (ie: hardest to modify). I have no doubts the suspension, drive train, etc will meet or exceed my needs for reliability and capability. I wish I could test drive one! I feel like asking my trash guy to take me for a ride. :smiley_drive: I'm not sure how you test drive something like this? Can't imagine it's like test driving a car?

Rammstein - Thank you for great info. I did notice that some of the interiors look much different than others, so good to know which ones are best suited for the application. I truly like the idea of an auto, so its also good to hear positive info about the 4500. Looking at the some of the for sale adds, I've seen some trucks with 500k + and even some with 800k. This just seems crazy to me for any vehicle, but I guess it's common with the long haulers. Is it because they run at such low RPM's? The torque graph on their site http://www.mackterrapro.com/ shows that they generate max torque from 1100 - 1300 RPM with a recommended RPM from 1200-2100. 800k miles is pretty amazing when you consider what our daily drivers can do. Totally off topic, but I just had a front wheel bearing on our BMW replaced after 30k, more less 500-800k. Maybe a lot of parts are replaced to reach 800k, but still seems crazy to me!

Out of curiosity, do you know what kind of milieage these get?

 

[bob91yj]

I was an Allison Transmission Field Service Tech for ten years. The HD4500 is bullet proof. There is also an HD 4560 that has a low low first gear, generally used in water trucks, airport fire trucks, construction trucks, etc.

 

[Dirt Demon]

The 6x6 cabover base for the expo camper is something I've been trying to financially justify for a while now.

A less expensive option I've found is this: http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=2618257&

Its an ex-mixer. Factory 6x6. 8LL. 20' of frame behind the cab.

 

[AATA]

I like it, but I'm curious what rubber block suspension is. Doesn't sound like a smooth ride. I didn't see miles either but still I think this type of base truck is a good foundation. I would assume the CAT engines are proven and parts are available in most places. Probably more than the Mack. Let us know if you get one. I would love to hear how it works out. Thanks.

Edit - I thought I would add that I read more about the rubber block suspension and with a walking beam, they can be very strong, reliable and low maintenance. Still doesn't sound like it would ride comfortable, but I could be wrong.

 

[Cat Jockey]

This is random, but a bit ago in searching for dual rear axle suspension stuff I came across a transcript from a recent convention of people in charge of making the truck purchases for the garbage collection industry and they specifically noted that in recent years, more and more landfills have made significant improvement in their internal road structures and the manufactures, like Mack, are now putting much more paved road specific suspension on their cabovers.

I like the idea of a cab over for the simple reason that you get to make your living area larger for the same frame length. Just thought I'd pass that along in case you pursue this setup. I'd bet you could find some sweet 4wd cabovers with more durable offroad suspension from not too many years back though.