Newbie Needs to Know Which Jeep?

[AdventureHare]

Hi all,

I'm just starting out and exploring the idea of overlanding. I've not owned an off-road vehicle before and have only been a couple of times with friends/family. I enjoyed it immensely and want to get a vehicle of my own.

I know about vehicles and I know how to research but I've kinda hit an impasse in my thinking. As typical, I see my criteria and looked at multiple sources for opinions and facts related to the objectives. But I encountered something that has me perplexed but I'll get to that in a second, but I need to hear some opinions directly related these 3 vehicles.

For overlanding, the vehicle will be outfitted with up to 33" and any lift required to accommodate them. Trails would be mild to moderate difficulty. I may eventually get a trailer but assume it would have to support 2 people + a dog from the vehicle. I will focus more on recovery than capability, so winch, jack, sand ladders, etc., before lockers and such. In addition to overlanding, I will be using this as my daily driver, so mpg is a consideration for ~11000 miles/year, I want something "modern" as I'm not young enough for extreme compromises, and stuff will be loaded and unloaded around the trips. It would be used to haul stuff when necessary such as wood, dirt, plants. It would carry a canoe or bikes for day excursions. Occasionally, the wife will drive it meaning it has to drive reasonably well when modified (I know more a function of the available kits).

The Jeeps I've zero'd in on are:
1. KK Liberty - size is appealing to me. 3.7L seems like a decent fit. SelecTrac II should work for what I see I want to do but not sure if underpinnings will keep up.
2. WK Grand Cherokee - power and capabilities with 5.7L and QDII. Not sure if the 3.7L in this is enough. 4.7L w/ QTII looks to be workable. Seems like a lot of weight for the volume.
3. XK Commander - volume with power & QDII. Not sure if 4.7L w/ QTII would be workable. Wondering if this may be too big.

My current vehicle is a Scion xB ('08, current model) and love it. I'm a big fan of the 2-box style.

So, back to the perplexing bit, in my area, these 3 Jeeps can be had for about the same price. Mileage may vary but within acceptable ranges. I believe each could meet the overlanding requirements but I'd like to know to what degrees. I'd also like to know if anything about each wouldn't work. Also, in creating this list, I naturally excluded the others also in the price range; TJ, KJ, WJ, XJ, Patriot, Compass, etc. Was that a mistake? I will admit to not having driven any of these yet but I'm assuming that none have anything that will keep me from excluding it. Is that a bad assumption?

So, what can you tell me that will sway me toward/away one or another? Or are they so similar that I should just find the best deal available. The order listed is my preference right now. I'm considering other makes too but I need to separate these in my mind. Please provide more than just which one as I need to know why. Thanks for the responding.

 

[lumpskie]

It looks like you've already done a fair amount of research, judging by the vehicles that you've selected. I've just got a couple questions that might help you narrow your selection even further?

1. What are the maximum number of people you plan on carrying in your vehicle when you head out for a trip? (you'll need a vehicle large enough to carry all your human and dog occupants plus gear)
2. How modified would you describe your goals for the rig? (Everyone starts out with a "reasonably modified" goal and then ends up going up a trail that's just a little to difficult. After that most of us start down the slippery slope of remodding.)

Looking at your options, I see that all of them are IFS rigs. (not good or bad... just an observation) Of the three I would, personally, aim for the latter two because they are bigger and I've seen them do decent off road. But, if it were me, I would also really consider a lower mileage XJ or WJ. Both are solid axle/coil sprung rigs that are very capable off road. The XJ is more compact to get around your northwest trees but the WJ is more luxurious with more power.

These are just suggestions that I thought you might find useful. A lot that goes into purchasing a vehicle deals with personal taste. I

 

[tarditi]

There is a very big difference in cargo capacity, passenger comfort, and available features between the liberty and Grand or Commander.

The Grand Cherokee has the largest aftermarket support of the 3 listed - all pale in comparison to the Wrangler, of course - if that is important to you. A nicely outfitted ZJ up-country package will give you the basics to get started, and serve as a nice platform. I had a WK and hated it, so I can't recommend this, but others may have fared better.
33s on a Liberty requires a lot of work and may seriously compromise the street performance. I really have trouble recommending this platform for extended trips overland due to the compact size and very limited off-road performance out-of-box. You'll spend a lot of money in trail-prep with this model.
The commander is a bit of an odd-man-out. They had a short production run, and have a bit of a following but still you'll find it hard to find a lot of overlanding build examples for that model and will find yourself the subject matter expert quickly. That said, I have a bit of a fondness for this truck and wish I saw more of them out & about.

My personal recommendation would be an LJ or JKU - rubicon if you can afford the package in your budget - you get a lot of performance out-of-box and you can focus your attention on other aspects of excursion preparation for the vehicle.

If you're not 100% sold on Jeeps, you can find tremendous value and performance in Nissan Xtrerras - especially the off-road or Pro-4x trims.

 

[EugeneTheTJ]

For 33s you can rule out a KK. Way too much work to get it up to that task.

XKs never really took off.

As stated above, the WK is probably your best option out of those three. Most proven and highest level of aftermarket support.

With that said, I would really consider a low mileage WJ or XJ. It seems like one of those two fits your requirements but both are better suited to the life of an overlander.

 

[AdventureHare]

Thanks for the early inputs. All are appreciated.

1. What are the maximum number of people you plan on carrying in your vehicle when you head out for a trip? (you'll need a vehicle large enough to carry all your human and dog occupants plus gear)
2. How modified would you describe your goals for the rig? (Everyone starts out with a "reasonably modified" goal and then ends up going up a trail that's just a little to difficult. After that most of us start down the slippery slope of remodding.)

... But, if it were me, I would also really consider a lower mileage XJ or WJ. Both are solid axle/coil sprung rigs that are very capable off road. The XJ is more compact to get around your northwest trees but the WJ is more luxurious with more power.

1A. Live load with gear would be only 2 people + dog. Without gear, 4 people. Were I to get a Commander, I'd remove the 3rd row seats.
2A. Remodding LOL, love that term. I understand the compulsion and would try to keep it in check. Outlook would be to do a mild lift with sliders and skidplates. I'm fairly sold on having a winch, as it's the ultimate undo button, and thus I'll need the infrastructure to support that (bumper, hitch, lashing point, etc.).

I had excluded the XJ from my list because of space and comfort. I have ridden in one and it was small and uncomfortable. The WJ is kinda a possibility. I like the look, features, options, etc of the WK better, and the WK was in the price range... but I understand the recommendations of these Jeeps.

There is a very big difference in cargo capacity, passenger comfort, and available features between the liberty and Grand or Commander.

... yet for <$13k, I can get my pick. Slightly different years and/or mileage but not much different.

The Grand Cherokee has the largest aftermarket support of the 3 listed - all pale in comparison to the Wrangler, of course - if that is important to you. A nicely outfitted ZJ up-country package will give you the basics to get started, and serve as a nice platform. I had a WK and hated it, so I can't recommend this, but others may have fared better.

Aftermarket is not that important because I'm not thinking I'll get extreme.
Can you elaborate on what you didn't like about the WK? I want opinions and experiences.

33s on a Liberty requires a lot of work and may seriously compromise the street performance. I really have trouble recommending this platform for extended trips overland due to the compact size and very limited off-road performance out-of-box. You'll spend a lot of money in trail-prep with this model.
The commander is a bit of an odd-man-out. They had a short production run, and have a bit of a following but still you'll find it hard to find a lot of overlanding build examples for that model and will find yourself the subject matter expert quickly. That said, I have a bit of a fondness for this truck and wish I saw more of them out & about.

It's disappointing to hear 33s on a KK would be difficult/costly. I could live with smaller tires if there were additional pluses to the Liberty.
The Commander does seem to hit a number of positives yet it's not gained the acceptance normally associated with those attributes. I wish is were about 1/10th smaller in each dimension.

My personal recommendation would be an LJ or JKU - rubicon if you can afford the package in your budget - you get a lot of performance out-of-box and you can focus your attention on other aspects of excursion preparation for the vehicle.

If you're not 100% sold on Jeeps, you can find tremendous value and performance in Nissan Xtrerras - especially the off-road or Pro-4x trims.

Alternatives are welcome. LJ is quickly becoming a cult object. And my bro would kill me if I didn't get a 3.6L JKU because that's what he drives. Unfortunately, they're outside of my budget. The Nissans are very attractive to me and are on the full list. I thought I'd start in the Jeep forum with my questions because this is where I have the most of them.

For 33s you can rule out a KK. Way too much work to get it up to that task.
XKs never really took off.
As stated above, the WK is probably your best option out of those three. Most proven and highest level of aftermarket support.
With that said, I would really consider a low mileage WJ or XJ. It seems like one of those two fits your requirements but both are better suited to the life of an overlander.

Another vote against the KK, and for the WJ and WK.

 

[Comanche Scott]

WJ is a very competent vehicle

I owned a WJ, it was an '04 Overland. So it's very hard for me not to be biased, because I flat out loved that Jeep!
There are a lot of awesome WJ builds on this site as well, with all the trials and tribulations that went with running them from stock to wild.
Great reads if you have the time.
.
That said, "if" I was to do another one, I'd have a real struggle whether to go Laredo 6 cylinder with Select-trac, or Overland 4.7 which almost always comes with Quadra-drive.
Quadra-drive is awesome in the snow and slick mud, but not as adaptable as the Select track with aftermarket lockers front and rear.
The Overland has awesome towing ability. Pull a nice base camp trailer, and the Overland would be my choice hands down. Then it would get the transfer case swapped, and lockers at both ends.
.
There is a lot to be said for solid axles, and the WJ is hands down the best at being a real comfortable, stable and smooth SUV with them.
.
... So much for not being biased. But man, it really is a nice vehicle.
There are also a lot of them out there that have never seen dirt. The aftermarket is coming on strong for them, and the price for a clean one is getting pretty darned cheap.

Good luck with which ever Jeep you get. :beer:

 

[jeepgc]

+1 for WK.

We have the 5.7. It is used as a daily drive for our family and to haul us and all our gear (family of four) on trips and holidays.

The WK drives nice and smooth and inspires confidence, my wife does the school run, 32 mile round trip 5 days a week and will share the driving on long haul drives.

Our WK has 2 multi week trips to Iceland under its belt and numerous trips to Scotland.

It's a great place to be when off road, on washboard and for highway cruising, in bad weather etc the WK has always felt safe and secure.

We're in Scotland right now and will be heading back home tomorrow (sadly).

We have a 11+ hour drive tomorrow, mix of mountain road, urban and highway. The WK will do the journey in comfort and get us home safely.

As said above, there are some excellent builds on here for WK and WJ, have a read through of the build threads and good luck with your decision.

 

[SSF556]

Just bite the bullet and buy a JKU....the only reason I have a WK is because of the Mercedes diesel. The WK is a great vehicle, but it does have limited interior room, limited aftermarket and Chrysler reliability could always pop up...I am not in a hurry to get rid of mine...but I do cheat on it and check out Tacomas, 4Runners, older Land Cruisers and Wranglers....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[docwatson]

Out of curiousity, what is on "the full list" so we can put these 3 jeeps in perspective against other brand competitors

 

[WhileInTheWild]

Why did you feel the XJ was so cramped? Are you a big guy? I'm 6'3" (close to 4 actually) and a little over 200 lb and I fit quite comfortably in my 2001 XJ, more so than in my wife's 2015 JK. The ride started out pretty crap with the sagging rear leaf springs but after lifting 3.5", putting on 31's (you really don't need 33's for overlanding), deleting the rear sway bar and installing a CYE & CV driveshaft the ride is very smooth, everything just feels so dialed in and it is a pleasure to drive.

 

[EugeneTheTJ]

Why did you feel the XJ was so cramped? Are you a big guy? I'm 6'3" (close to 4 actually) and a little over 200 lb and I fit quite comfortably in my 2001 XJ, more so than in my wife's 2015 JK. The ride started out pretty crap with the sagging rear leaf springs but after lifting 3.5", putting on 31's (you really don't need 33's for overlanding), deleting the rear sway bar and installing a CYE & CV driveshaft the ride is very smooth, everything just feels so dialed in and it is a pleasure to drive.

I second this. I am 6'4" 260 pounds and I am perfectly fine in my XJ. My wife currently has a 2014 JKU and she previously had a 2009 KK. The interior space of all three vehicles isn't much different.

As for the ride quality, I would say the KK rode the worst out of all 3 vehicles. The JK is the best but with the suspension upgrades I've made to my XJ it isn't too far behind the JK.

 

[Hilldweller]

Just bite the bullet and buy a JKU....the only reason I have a WK is because of the Mercedes diesel. The WK is a great vehicle, but it does have limited interior room, limited aftermarket and Chrysler reliability could always pop up...I am not in a hurry to get rid of mine...but I do cheat on it and check out Tacomas, 4Runners, older Land Cruisers and Wranglers....

I went from this

to this

There were a few MINI Coopers in between but that's irrelevant....

Wranglers are easy to mod. I ran 33s with no mods at all (255/80-17).
Hit the easy button...

 

[AdventureHare]

I owned a WJ, it was an '04 Overland. ... "if" I was to do another one, I'd have a real struggle whether to go Laredo 6 cylinder with Select-trac, or Overland 4.7 which almost always comes with Quadra-drive.
...
There are also a lot of them out there that have never seen dirt. The aftermarket is coming on strong for them, and the price for a clean one is getting pretty darned cheap.

There does seem to be a number of nice Overland WJ's available. The O'land package does appear to be worth pursuing. As for ST1 vs. QD1, I think either will meet my objectives up front.

+1 for WK.
[snipped good argument for WK]
As said above, there are some excellent builds on here for WK and WJ, have a read through of the build threads and good luck with your decision.

Thx. Have read your thread and a bunch of others...to the neglect of other responsibilities. :ylsmoke:

Just bite the bullet and buy a JKU....the only reason I have a WK is because of the Mercedes diesel. The WK is a great vehicle...

I forgot to mention the CRD in my original post, and when the wife chimes in, she'll vote for the mpg advantage of the diesel.
The JKU is at least $10k more than what I'm looking at, and my budget can't stretch that far even without having to buy other gear.

Why did you feel the XJ was so cramped? Are you a big guy? I'm 6'3" (close to 4 actually) and a little over 200 lb and I fit quite comfortably in my 2001 XJ, more so than in my wife's 2015 JK. The ride started out pretty crap with the sagging rear leaf springs but after lifting 3.5", putting on 31's (you really don't need 33's for overlanding), ...

I second this. I am 6'4" 260 pounds and I am perfectly fine in my XJ. My wife currently has a 2014 JKU and she previously had a 2009 KK. The interior space of all three vehicles isn't much different.

As for the ride quality, I would say the KK rode the worst out of all 3 vehicles. The JK is the best but with the suspension upgrades I've made to my XJ it isn't too far behind the JK.

The XJ I rode in was an early 90's and it seemed like an antique. It may have been sagging. I don't remember. I just remember the impression. It felt squat with not much seat height above the floor. It was about 8 years ago so I'll make a point to check it out again.
It's interesting that the KK rode the worst. And from the outside/pics, the KK looks bigger/longer than the XJ. I thought that with the step back in capability, it was brought forward in comfort and space. My impression of the KK is definitely changing.

So, a couple more thumbs up for the WK and WJ, the XJ could be in the running, and the KK is fading fast. Big Comm is holding steady. Thanks.

 

[EugeneTheTJ]

If you do decide to go WJ I would also like to inform you that Overland WJ seats feel like you are sitting in a cloud. So comfortable!

 

[AdventureHare]

Out of curiousity, what is on "the full list" so we can put these 3 jeeps in perspective against other brand competitors

At the risk of starting a debate about Jeeps vs. the world, in no particular order, the primaries are:
Nissan XTerra, R51 Pathfinder
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Land Rover LR3

The wife is a pro-gardener, and would probably prefer a pickup, so the secondaries are:
Toyota Taco, Tundra
Nissan Frontier, Titan

And vehicles that I like the idea but have excluded for some unjustifiable reason (please don't pursue this, it's not worth the time):
Toyota 4Runner, Sequoia
Chevy Astro, Tahoe, Colorado
VW Westy

I'd like to keep discussions to the origin questions, if you don't mind. Thank you.