Next Question: Diesel vs. Gas F350

[Buliwyf]

I just pulled this sample out of the second filter on a 300 Kw John Deere today. (new HPP, common rail engine) I got at least 2 quarts of fuel out of the filters like this. Pretty safe bet it made it's way to the engine. If you had this in your diesel truck, you'd be making a "I hate brand X truck, lemon." thread on a forum somewhere right now. That JD engines filters, are way bigger and better than ours. (6090)

Hopefully the filter clogged with algae and rust chunks before this made it to the HPP and injectors. Looking at $14,000 repairs easy, if that's the case. And no warranty from this point forward. This is southern Michigan.

First bad batch of off road diesel in the N Mid West that I've seen in a decade. Possible leaky fuel tank, or water soaked fuel tank with a rusted top.

 

[mrfoamy]

We have been running diesels in my business for over 25 years without a problem, but it is super-nice to have this reminder of the importance of maintenance. I am tempted now to buy a 6.2 with a high diff ratio, then sell it if it is unpleasant in the mountains.

 

[lanceatm]

This is a great thread.
We have a Tundra 2017 as a demo vehicle with a MOD (1100 lbs) camper. Love everything about it except how much it likes fuel and has such a lousy range, empty or loaded. Carrying extra jerry cans of gas really sucks.
If the payload is not heavy I wonder what the real world fuel economy of a Hemi Ram 3500 would be as a comparison to the Toyota?

 

[ttengineer]

View attachment 472339

I just pulled this sample out of the second filter on a 300 Kw John Deere today. (new HPP, common rail engine) I got at least 2 quarts of fuel out of the filters like this. Pretty safe bet it made it's way to the engine. If you had this in your diesel truck, you'd be making a "I hate brand X truck, lemon." thread on a forum somewhere right now. That JD engines filters, are way bigger and better than ours. (6090)

Hopefully the filter clogged with algae and rust chunks before this made it to the HPP and injectors. Looking at $14,000 repairs easy, if that's the case. And no warranty from this point forward. This is southern Michigan.

First bad batch of off road diesel in the N Mid West that I've seen in a decade. Possible leaky fuel tank, or water soaked fuel tank with a rusted top.

That’s why I have my guys inspect fuel tanks monthly. I know too many contractors that have had issues because of bad site tanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Clutch]

This is a great thread.
We have a Tundra 2017 as a demo vehicle with a MOD (1100 lbs) camper. Love everything about it except how much it likes fuel and has such a lousy range, empty or loaded. Carrying extra jerry cans of gas really sucks.
If the payload is not heavy I wonder what the real world fuel economy of a Hemi Ram 3500 would be as a comparison to the Toyota?

About the same is my guess, Tundra probaly has the worst fuel economy of all the half tons.

Wonder if a F150 with the heavy payload package plus an Ecoboost would be a better platform for that camper?

 

[Buliwyf]

An F250 wouldn't even notice that camper. That's the route I went. Likely won't be investing in a new camper until the trucks paid off. You're not going to beat 13mpg in any hd truck camper combo. As if it matters with cheap fuel available.

Right now I can do a ton of diving and camping from hotels and resorts for the cost of a decent slide in. Getting the tent out, is the exception lately. Not the rule.

 

[lanceatm]

Ford V8 Gas over Dodge V8 Gas when it comes to fuel and range, is that a fair statement assuming all else is equal?

 

[Clutch]

Ford V8 Gas over Dodge V8 Gas when it comes to fuel and range, is that a fair statement assuming all else is equal?

Gas in a 3/4-1 Ton...they are all about the same, splitting hairs when it comes down to it.

The joke about the Tundra is, you'll get 3/4-1 Ton mpgs...in a 1/2 ton package. One of the reasons the Tundra gets such horrible mileage is it only comes with one gear set option (IIRC 4.10). Where-as the others you can order them with taller gears, plus now with 8-10 speed transmissions. The Tundra is "only" 6.

I would look into what people are getting with a Four Wheel Camper and F150 EcoBoost. They'll pull 15-18 mpg loaded from my research (Where a 3/4-1 Ton (and Tundra) will do 10-13 mpg), looks like a few can break 20 mpg, but that as at 50-55 mph.

Ram 1/2 Ton Ecodiesel and Chevy Colorado Duramax will do 20-25 mpg with a small popup camper. It appears though that Ram is still having trouble getting their 2019 Ecodiesel to pass epa emissions though. Which is odd since it is basically the same engine found in the Chevy Colorado to my understanding.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

For someone who seldom expects to tow this would seem a no-brainer, but consider the following arguments:

The diesel offers extended range, which has several advantages. That range really helps when a few hours of slow off-road are involved with the 34 gallon tank in the SCab. I know because I had a 2012 diesel SD. That range helps avoid an aux. tank or exterior containers. Even when adding an aux. tank the even greater range with diesel offers opportunities to take advantage of low fuel prices.

And who doesn’t love torque? Hauling a 3,500# camper in 4WD in high mountains the turbocharger makes driving so much more pleasant.

Sure, the $8,000 up-charge is discouraging, but you save $1,000/year on fuel cost. Then after 8 years of saving fuel you can resell the truck at a premium (I suspect). No, it is not a good financial transaction, but that up-front expense nearly washes out.

Weight, the diesel engine weighs about 500 lbs. more. That is a dead-weight cost with no advantage.

Any other thoughts on why not to buy the Super Duty diesel? Or other reasons to order one?

Why not get an Ecoboost F150 and get the best of both worlds?

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Gas in a 3/4-1 Ton...they are all about the same, splitting hairs when it comes down to it.

The joke about the Tundra is, you'll get 3/4-1 Ton mpgs...in a 1/2 ton package. One of the reasons the Tundra gets such horrible mileage is it only comes with one gear set option (IIRC 4.10). Where-as the others you can order them with taller gears, plus now with 8-10 speed transmissions.

I would look into what people are getting with a Four Wheel Camper and F150 EcoBoost. They'll pull 15-18 mpg loaded from my research (Where a 3/4-1 Ton (and Tundra) will do 10-13 mpg), looks like a few can break 20 mpg, but that as at 50-55 mph.

Ram 1/2 Ton Ecodiesel and Chevy Colorado Duramax will do 20-25 mpg with a small popup camper. It appears though that Ram is still having trouble getting their 2019 Ecodiesel to pass epa emissions though. Which is odd since it is basically the same engine found in the Chevy Colorado to my understanding.

My 2017, 2.7, super crew, 2wd f150 has an average of 20.8 since new (~17,000 miles) and can get 24-25mpg doing 70. The 3.5 gets a little less, but it also has much more TQ.

 

[Buliwyf]

Depends.
For the Super Duty:
+tough locker ready axles
+F150 loads won't even make them sweat
+more durable joints and such (the US is made out of potholes thanks to union road labor)
+solid, proven 4x4 system and free spin hubs.
+35" tires fit stock
+4.30 gear, oem available

Against:
-it drives like a truck
-rougher ride
-if you pass up the 250 and get a 350, taxes and insuance cost.
-doesn't come with shocks or steering dampers. They're just an empty metal tube with the word "Rauncho" painted on.
-Eco boost is nice on non towing days.

As far as gas 3/4 tons. The Ford 6.2L engine / 6r100G combo is pretty nice right now. A definite advantage over the gas Dodge 6.4 and the GM 6.0. It's been a long time since Ford had a really good gas engine in their trucks.

The reason the Tundra sucks fuel is because they put entirely too much engine under the hood. Completely impractical, but it pleases the poor sad guys that are still impressed by trucks that are less slow, than slow trucks. I miss the olde anemic 4.6L 2v engine Ford had. Always got the job done, dirt cheap, reliable.

 

[Clutch]

My 2017, 2.7, super crew, 2wd f150 has an average of 20.8 since new (~17,000 miles) and can get 24-25mpg doing 70. The 3.5 gets a little less, but it also has much more TQ.

Nice!

Have a few buddies with the 3.5...they are getting 15-18 average. Some can get into low 20's HWY if they leave the cruise at 65.

Me, I would do the 2.7 4WD with the OVRLND camper...about the lightest/*simplest/best mileage you can get without having to mess with diesel.



*simplest: camper that is. As we all know vehicles are far from simple anymore.

 

[Dalko43]

The gas guys get the last laugh when the diesels are on the side of the road in failure mode or worse.

Until they start making HPP's and injectors that can handle nasty wet diesel fuel, we're going to see more and more big gas engines coming back. I'm startled that consumers aren't insisting on it. We're not seeing as many failures in heavy semi trucks. Downtime and repairs cost more than gasoline, even if you're buying twice as much gasoline.

There must be a disconnect between what the internet experts predict and what reality dictates. Because in real life, I see plenty of individuals and businesses operating diesels all over the freaking place. I still see local buses and delivery trucks using them too. I can't drive down my local highways without running into a whole bunch of diesel HD's towing or hauling commercial setup's. Either my eyes are playing tricks on me or the average joe hasn't gotten the memo that its time to ditch his diesel truck.

For the all the complexity of modern diesels, gasoline engines are unlikely to replace them in certain vehicle categories. They are not efficient for carrying loads, and when fuel prices go back up, people will appreciate that even further. CNG, diesel, hybrid are the viable options going forward. Electric still has a ways to go before its ready to start replacing internal combustion engines in work applications.

View attachment 472339

I just pulled this sample out of the second filter on a 300 Kw John Deere today. (new HPP, common rail engine) I got at least 2 quarts of fuel out of the filters like this. Pretty safe bet it made it's way to the engine. If you had this in your diesel truck, you'd be making a "I hate brand X truck, lemon." thread on a forum somewhere right now. That JD engines filters, are way bigger and better than ours. (6090)

Hopefully the filter clogged with algae and rust chunks before this made it to the HPP and injectors. Looking at $14,000 repairs easy, if that's the case. And no warranty from this point forward. This is southern Michigan.

First bad batch of off road diesel in the N Mid West that I've seen in a decade. Possible leaky fuel tank, or water soaked fuel tank with a rusted top.

So because 1 diesel engine of 1 particular brand is having fuel quality issues that means all diesels have that problem? This is a pretty laughable insinuation. FWIW, high-pressure common-rail diesels are used all over the world, including in 3rd world countries with horrible fuel quality. As long as the proper maintenance is done (scheduled filter changes) the injectors should last a good long time before they need replacement.

I really don't hear of too many injector issues in North America (they certainly happen, but its not common). The on-road fuel is generally of good quality, and many modern diesels are coming with redundant filtering systems.

This is a great thread.
We have a Tundra 2017 as a demo vehicle with a MOD (1100 lbs) camper. Love everything about it except how much it likes fuel and has such a lousy range, empty or loaded. Carrying extra jerry cans of gas really sucks.
If the payload is not heavy I wonder what the real world fuel economy of a Hemi Ram 3500 would be as a comparison to the Toyota?

The 6.4l Hemi will net a bit less mpg. Mid teens is about the highest you can expect with that engine. 11-12mpg is very common for combined driving.

The 5.7l Tundra will get a few mpg better, but its efficiency is mediocre compared to the other 1/2 tons...mostly because Toyota went overboard with the design: lower gearing, bigger rear axle, bigger brakes, a gasoline v8 that is powerful but thirsty, ect.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Nice!

Have a few buddies with the 3.5...they are getting 15-18 average. Some can get into low 20's HWY if they leave the cruise at 65.

Me, I would do the 2.7 4WD with the OVRLND camper...about the lightest/*simplest/best mileage you can get without having to mess with diesel.



*simplest: camper that is. As we all know vehicles are far from simple anymore.

The 2.7 is a potent motor. Most people are shocked at how well it tows. I got a 5* tune for mine and now it's a little monster.

 

[Buliwyf]

Your attitude changes when you have to foot the repair bill for a HPP on the GM/Ford/Dodge diesels, especially if the truck is so new it's still under warranty.