'Nother truck question. Narrowing down my choices:

[BIGdaddy]

OK, so here's a question.

dodge 1500 payload: 1400# or so.
Toyota tacoma payload: 1400# or so.

Hawk FWC dry weight: 750#

If I stripped a hawk down to bare-bones, cabinet-wise, to create more bunk space (Idea I've toyed with for a while), I could probably get that down to 650-700ish.

What is it that allows Toyota tacoma users to carry a Hawk camper, and not the Dodge 1500?

I understand that I'd be very close to GVWR, but honestly, how many overlanders on this board do the same?

Probably QUITE a few. There's even a thread about rig obesity...haha.

Not saying this is "the plan" (I don't know if we could/or would want to cram all of us into a slide-in), but I certainly think it's not a foregone conclusion that it's NOT possible.

Sorry mike. I can hear your "reply to thread" turbo spooling up...haha.

 

[78Bronco]

You would be over weight by the time you added gear, supplies and people to the truck.

 

[bftank]

there is a saying that goes, "it is always better to have more truck than you need, than to need more truck than you have."

imagine being over weight, over tired under braked and going down a mountain pass. your bum will have unuphostered your seat for you.

 

[BIGdaddy]

You would be over weight by the time you added gear, supplies and people to the truck.

Go on back to the first page where i mentioned our camp trailer. It carries everything. My XJ literally has "us" and "snacks" in it.

The only thing that would be in the bed would be the dry-weighted slide-in.

Fuel: 200lbs
People: 500lbs
Camper: 700lbs

Can i not tow my trailer at this point? Would the 10% of the trailer weight i have on the hitch be too much? It's probably only 50-100lbs...

 

[BIGdaddy]

there is a saying that goes, "it is always better to have more truck than you need, than to need more truck than you have."

imagine being over weight, over tired under braked and going down a mountain pass. your bum will have unuphostered your seat for you.

Yup, not a fan of mechanical failures. yet, i'm also not convinced i need a heavier duty truck. Just exploring the options.

 

[ExpoMike]

The guys putting FWC on Taco's are having to put extra springs and/or air bags. Not really any different than you would do with any 1/2 ton truck. Still doesn't deal with the GVW issue. Most Taco's come with D load rated tires and on top of adding the springs/air bags, they are having to move to E load tires too.

Seriously, if you are even considering ANY slide in, you will NEED a 3/4 ton or bigger truck! An empty FWC, sure is 700-800 lbs. but I guess you are planning to not put ANY gear in the back, once you add in your passenger load. What you can do and what you should do regarding GVW is two different things.

If I was to do it over again, I would likely buy a 1 ton just to have the extra GVW. I would still have National Springs build me the same front and rear springs just like I have now but having the extra GVW takes any concerns about any legal issues should an accident happen. Over GVW could put you at fault even if you're not.

Here's a good thread to read about real weights of rigs, http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/89181-A-Challenge-How-Obese-is-your-Rig

 

[78Bronco]

Go on back to the first page where i mentioned our camp trailer. It carries everything. My XJ literally has "us" and "snacks" in it.

The only thing that would be in the bed would be the dry-weighted slide-in.

Fuel: 200lbs
People: 500lbs
Camper: 700lbs

Can i not tow my trailer at this point? Would the 10% of the trailer weight i have on the hitch be too much? It's probably only 50-100lbs...

200 + 500 + 700 + 100 = 1500 and you are allowed 1400. Plus your family will more than likely be growing up so soon you will have 600 lbs in people. I am sure the truck will do it but 4.7 is going to be working hard and the police might scale you. Not worth it in my opinion.

What is max capacity for a 5.7L truck...probably around 1800 lbs. My 2010 f150 is around 1900 lbs capacity.

 

[bftank]

Yup, not a fan of mechanical failures. yet, i'm also not convinced i need a heavier duty truck. Just exploring the options.

i think you might have misunderstood what i am trying saying. when you load your truck to maximum capacity. there is no room for error. panic braking is compromised, steering is compromised, handling is compromised, etc., etc. if you look at what your weights are at and say this maxes out a 1/2 tons capacity, maybe i should figure in a margin of safety to compromise for the extra weight and move up to a 3/4t or 1t, this makes it less of a compromise. not trying to be offensive, just clearer in my response.

i have had 1/2t loaded to capacity, and refuse to put my family in that situation again.

another disadvantage to loading a vehicle to capacity is it is much harder on wear items, giving you and increased chance for mechanical failure.

will a half ton due what you are asking of it? absolutely.
will it struggle to do it? absolutely
will it be just as safe as a 3/4t in the same situation? no
does it matter that people are doing this with a tacoma? personally just because somebody else is doing, doesn't mean it works well.


things about this truck that seem sketchy to me (my opinions)

ifs does not belong in a truck that is used to do work
the nv3500, good trans for midsize suv and hauling a few people. seems sketchy to put a v8 in front of it and haul stuff with it. would rather have an nv4500 in there.

not trying to be offensive, just give you something to think about. you seem pretty set on getting this, and i hope it works out to your expectations if you do.

 

[BIGdaddy]

i think you might have misunderstood what i am trying saying. when you load your truck to maximum capacity. there is no room for error. panic braking is compromised, steering is compromised, handling is compromised, etc., etc. if you look at what your weights are at and say this maxes out a 1/2 tons capacity, maybe i should figure in a margin of safety to compromise for the extra weight and move up to a 3/4t or 1t, this makes it less of a compromise. not trying to be offensive, just clearer in my response.

i have had 1/2t loaded to capacity, and refuse to put my family in that situation again.

another disadvantage to loading a vehicle to capacity is it is much harder on wear items, giving you and increased chance for mechanical failure.

will a half ton due what you are asking of it? absolutely.
will it struggle to do it? absolutely
will it be just as safe as a 3/4t in the same situation? no
does it matter that people are doing this with a tacoma? personally just because somebody else is doing, doesn't mean it works well.


things about this truck that seem sketchy to me (my opinions)

ifs does not belong in a truck that is used to do work
the nv3500, good trans for midsize suv and hauling a few people. seems sketchy to put a v8 in front of it and haul stuff with it. would rather have an nv4500 in there.

not trying to be offensive, just give you something to think about. you seem pretty set on getting this, and i hope it works out to your expectations if you do.

LOL...I tend not to get offended by the internet. No worries. i'm chewing on everything y'all are posting

Just fully exploring this idea and making sure i understand what to expect.

Overloading a truck = bad.
Buy more truck than you think you need = good.

Got it. I do like this truck. I've been playing around with some other non-trailer ideas today, too, that would probably go easier on the GVWR.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Nothing groundbreaking. This has been done a lot with smaller rigs. Not so much with fullsize rigs. Probably be a lot easier to stay within GVWR even with a good amount of fuel, water, supplies, camping furniture, etc. Our family of 5 necessitates some creativity when it comes to sleeping accommodations.

Click on them to make 'em bigger.


Was thinking that with a queen truckbed inside the annex of a normal howling moon/eezi-awn/ARB, etc, this might work for an upper and lower bunk with sliding storage below the lower bed. Tent would be a heck of a drag on the mpgs on the roof, but I just wanted to get the idea out on paper, so I could stop it from rolling around in my head. I like the idea of being completely off the ground. Too many years in a maggiolina spoiled me.


This second idea (thanks for the idea, RU55EL. ) would be with a eezi-awn 1800 or 2200, with quite a bit of load space left below the tent for storage bins or sliding storage.

 

[ExpoMike]

Brian, I diffinitely think option two is the most viable. I have seen this done many times. If I was going this route, I would go one step futher and get a pickup lumber rack and modify it to hold the RTT. I would then weld in a wire mesh in the area over the cab so I could put anything I needed up there as well. This would give you better access to stuff in the bed (from the sides). It would also allow you to use the truck like a truck for hauling even with the RTT mounted. For those cases that you need to haul larger or longer items, you could remove the RTT and have a contractor truck setup for long boards and such. This is a similar idea as how TacoDoc did his first setup with rack/RTT.

Here's Dave's old setup.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Yeah, i remember seeing his setup during an Anza borrego run years ago. Does he talk about why he moved away from this setup to the AT flippac in one of his threads? I remember him telling me about all the drama associated with getting this rack fabricated. I recall being surprised when he had it up for sale.

 

[RU55ELL]

I like option two best as well. I'm torn between whether keeping it up high like TacoDoc's setup, which allows for better access to whatever is in the bed, or have it lower, like the way Box Rocket has his low, where you keep it all out of the wind for some better fuel economy. Of course, if you get a Dodge, fuel economy goes out the window from the start.

Box Rocket's setup:

OR, you could put telescopic legs on the rack and can raise and lower it depending on how many people and how much gear you have to put in the bed. If you have a smaller amount of gear and the rack low, you could put a divider behind the fenderwell so you can keep everything near the rear so you can reach it from the tailgate. As little gear as it would be, weight distribution of that small amount isn't going to matter.

 

[ExpoMike]

Another thought would be to spin the RTT 90* from how Dave had his and have it open over the bed (assuming you mounted it over the cab). Agian should be easy to do with a lumber rack versus having a custom made rack. You could then have some side panels (tent material) made and fastened to the sides, to semi enclose the bed when camping.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Another thought would be to spin the RTT 90* from how Dave had his and have it open over the bed (assuming you mounted it over the cab). Agian should be easy to do with a lumber rack versus having a custom made rack. You could then have some side panels (tent material) made and fastened to the sides, to semi enclose the bed when camping.

Well, a tent as small as daves wouldn't work without an attached annex. I have to sleep 5 in whatever tent/camper/flippac we end up with. We're not comfortable, nor do our munchkin's have any desire right now to sleep in their own tent. (Maybe when they're older.

You're kinda describing what I was exploring with my first sketchup drawing.

RTT mounted to the cab, flopped out over the bed, with the annex hanging below. That, in theory, creates a shelter up on the cab, as well as a 2nd one in the bed. (Two sleeping surfaces). the tent material you talk about would probably create the same type of shelter, just not as air/water tight as an annex with attached floor.